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| Gotenks is overrated | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 10 2016, 11:23 AM (4,206 Views) | |
| FutureProtagonist | Feb 11 2016, 07:54 AM Post #31 |
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
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Congratulations! You've found Daizenshuu's most psychotic strength statement. Unless they're talking about Base Gotenks, which they're not, Gotenks being weaker than Goku is something, Gotenks being weaker than Vegeta is quite another, and Gotenks being weaker than someone else besides Vegeta, presumably a Z-fighter, is something on a whole other level. Who are these mysterious "others"? I have complete confidence that SSJ Gotenks (pre) is, at the very least, well above Fat Boo. Nothing makes sense otherwise. Toriyama says he wishes he had them when he wrote the manga, which implies that most of the stuff in there is news to him or at least that he had little to no involvement in its creation. Every line in Daizenshuu has [citation needed] written next to it as far as I'm concerned. |
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| -SuperSaiyan2 | Feb 11 2016, 07:55 AM Post #32 |
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@FutureProtagonsit, Gotenks is weaker than Kajin Vegeta and you know it. |
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| + Sandy Shore | Feb 11 2016, 08:20 AM Post #33 |
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I just assumed they were the other Super Saiyan 2s. Though, of course, that's just speculation. I wouldn't say nothing makes sense otherwise. Not at all. Goku previously lied about about him probably not being able to defeat the Fat Boo—I know, you disagree—because he wants the boys to manage Fat Boo on their own. He therefore places his hope in them being up to the task, and he also places his hope in fusion being enough for them get the job done, all the while assuring everyone it will all work out. The former was evidently poor judgement, and the latter was never actually proven to be true. Now—before you call for my head on a plate—I'm not saying the statement is therefore true, but, if it was, the story could still progress making sense - counter to what you just said. So, Toriyama had no knowledge of what went in to them until they were released to the public? I'm not saying he helped write them, but he must have looked them over, no? I'm sure there are plenty of things you can all find to be inconsistent, or simply not reconcilable with the source material, but wouldn't Toriyama have been at least consulted, and therefore agreed with what had been written? If Gotenks was purposely as absurdly strong as the manga implies, as per Dark Matter's claim, then don't you think he would have pointed out how asinine that particular entry is? That is, after all, the main point I was making. Yawn. Edited by Sandy Shore, Feb 11 2016, 08:23 AM.
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| Zoom | Feb 11 2016, 10:56 AM Post #34 |
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My intentions has nothing to with Gotenks personality but more to with not overrating him.
Don't understand how Buu powered up from lookout to inside rosat because Buu just stood there and let Gotenks attack inside thee rosat. Edited by Zoom, Feb 11 2016, 10:56 AM.
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| EMIYA | Feb 11 2016, 11:26 AM Post #35 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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But that's the thing, Gotenks himself is never overrated. He's treated just as powerful as he's made out to be ad its only his opponents that are underestimated that he's unable to win. Vegeta during Namek proclaimed himself the Super Saiyan and was going to defeat Freeza. But instead he gets put in his place and ultimately killed. This doesn't stop Vegeta from the huge gains he obviously made that well surpass his previous power. The only difference is that Vegeta ultimately underestimated the vast depths of Freeza's power. It's the exact same thing here. Gotenks is basically stated by Piccolo that he's gotten so strong that compared to SSJ Goteks in the past, this new Base Gotenks is practically on a whole new level. That's why Piccolo goes from hoping for a miracle to believing they have a chance. Unfortunately, much like Freeza, Boo is holding back more than they can tell and Gotenks is put into the pyre. Again, at no point does the aspect of Base Gotenks surpassing his SSJ Self Post-ROSAT ever get contradicted. Otherwise I might as well say... "Well...Vegeta thought he could defeat Freeza and he got killed. So why should he be stronger than before?" |
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| + Pointer | Feb 11 2016, 11:50 AM Post #36 |
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super buu >~ssj3 gotenks > base gotenks > ssj gotenks > fat buu > base pre gotenks |
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| Dankness Lava | Feb 11 2016, 02:36 PM Post #37 |
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Dankness Forever
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Hey SSj4 Gotenks, is part of your argument that Boo doesn't power up because there's no physical proof? Well what about when Freeza powered up to 50%? He kind of just stood there for a second and suddenly Goku realized he vastly powered up. |
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| + Pyrus | Feb 11 2016, 04:34 PM Post #38 |
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We never saw a power up from Freeza or Cell. |
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Spoiler: click to toggle
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| Dankness Lava | Feb 11 2016, 04:36 PM Post #39 |
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Dankness Forever
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Yeah the only time these two powered up was to full power. Edited by Dankness Lava, Feb 11 2016, 04:36 PM.
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| Saberoph | Feb 11 2016, 05:03 PM Post #40 |
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You know I just realized that I never addressed this Threads name directly... Gotenks isn't overrated, in fact most of the time it's the exact opposite due to people not liking him. However, the people who will take facts over their own opinions don't do either and will properly place his power and just leave it at that, whether they like him or not. I said this before, but I don't care for Gotenks but I did see the potential in his character and wish he would've been redeemed in BoG and Super, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen. I say this because I believe all characters should be given the chance to be redeemed at least once, maybe twice depending on how they were handled their first time around. |
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| Zoom | Feb 11 2016, 09:59 PM Post #41 |
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The bold part is where I disagree. If it's Gotenks post > Ssj1 Gotenks pre, then yeah we on the same page because it's backed by un contradicted power placement from Trunks and Piccolo claiming the rosat training has increased their powers and Gotenks is equal to Buu (IMO I think Trunks was talking about Fat because then if his talking about Evil, this whole statement is contradicted by Gotenks performance). But if you put Gotenks post close to or equal to Evil Buu initial(whatever that means, someone has to clarify exactly which Buu was Trunks comparing Gotenks to), because when i hear the word initial to me it means the first time they witnessed Evil Buu which is at the lookout but in my opinion I think it's unlikely because of the context where Trunks and Goten was half a sleep trying to get to rosat. Buu stepped on Chichi and Goten freaked out. I don't see any opportunity where the boys could have sensed him. This part here is JUST my opinion as I think Trunks was comparing base Gotenks to Fat. Anyway, it still doesn't matter because let's say we go with option 2 and say Trunks was comparing Gotenks to Initial Evil Buu. First point I would like to make is this ties with what i am going to say to reply to Magma Carter and Pyrus, is that; 1. Frieza Initial to 50% vs Goku = there was either a dialogue saying Frieza is going to use 50% of his powers or simply by Goku's reaction where Goku comments on Frieza's strength. 2. Cell vs Vegeta and vs Goku = Krillin made a comment that Cell has some hidden deep power when Cell kicked Vegeta. Master Roshi and Goku commented on Cell's increased of sudden speed or when Cell increased to that giant form where everybody else pointed that Cell is a monster and F. Trunks has no chance. = When Evil Buu entered the rosat, he first attacked Trunks (which I still don't how Trunks didn't have a broken jaw, silly Toriyama), then after that Trunks told him to stay put until his told to start fighting. Gotenks was born again and did those all those crazy techniques thunder punch, wild boar, which did zero damage (didn't even leave a mark on Buu's beautiful face). This was so bad, Piccolo had to re-think Gotenks chances of winning against Evil Buu which was stated in the manga as shown in those scans. this is what confuses me. Evil Buu full power >>>>>>>>> Initial Evil Buu ~ base Gotenks post. Like I've said, even if you assume Trunks was comparing Gotenks to initial Evil Buu, Gotenks's performance proves otherwise as Buu was standing still letting Gotenks hit him.
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| Dankness Lava | Feb 11 2016, 10:11 PM Post #42 |
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Dankness Forever
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Uh huh, and it's been stated that Boo's ki is a lie. |
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| Zoom | Feb 11 2016, 10:17 PM Post #43 |
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Which means base Gotenks is till nowhere near initial Buu because you haven't provided any evidence showing Buu somehow secretly powered up which leaves us with feats > dialogue. |
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| Dankness Lava | Feb 11 2016, 10:22 PM Post #44 |
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Dankness Forever
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So you don't believe that Boo's power is hard to read? It's not that he powered up, it's that he showed more of his power to them perhaps. He is magical after all. He could just be holding back, not suppressing. But I have no access to scans. |
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| Zoom | Feb 11 2016, 10:26 PM Post #45 |
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Why would he show more power when Buu is just standing still and letting Gotenks hit him? From the lookout all Buu did was walk to the rosat. |
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