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Dragon Ball, Z, Super and GT Transformation Guide.
Topic Started: Feb 5 2016, 04:52 PM (928 Views)
Saberoph
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You know we have Power Levels, Strength Checkers and even Debating Tips, but I haven't seen anyone post a Transformation guide, so I figured for the heck of it I would try this out and see how well I can do this.

I'm starting with Saiyajins and will work my through all Transformations from all the Series. I know this won't be perfect from the start, but by posting this we can fill in the blanks and have a consistent guide to Transformations on this site.




Dragon Ball, Z, Super and GT Transformation Guide

Saiyajins
Great Ape: Achieved by having a Tail with the Saiyajin being in direct sight of either a Full Moon or a Power Ball.
Known To Achieve: Bardock, Raditz, Son Goku, Son Gohan, Nappa, Vegeta, Turles, Mirai Vegeta, Mirai Son Goku and Mirai Son Gohan.


Super Saiyajin: Achieved by having a high battle power and extreme rage and sometimes through intense training. This Transformation greatly increases the users speed, strength and stamina.
Known To Achieve: Son Goku, Mirai Son Gohan, Mirai Trunks, Mirai Vegeta, Mirai Son Goku, Vegeta, Son Gohan, Son Goten, Trunks, Gotenks, Gogeta and Vegetto.


Super Saiyajin Grade 2: Achieved through intense training, by manipulating the Super Saiyajin power and forcing it through the muscles, allowing the Saiyans' speed and strength to increase.
Known To Achieve: Vegeta, Mirai Trunks and Son Goku.


Super Saiyajin Grade 3: Achieved through intense training and allowing more Super Saiyajin Ki through the muscles. Further doing so greatly increases the strength more, but results in greatly sacraficing speed.
Known To Achieve: Mirai Trunks and Son Goku.


Mastered Super Saiyajin: Although it is just as powerful as regular Super Saiyajin, it greatly reduces how much Ki is needed to Transform and now the user can suppress and increase their power at will, just like they can in Base. Although it's unclear exactly how little Ki is required to Transform after Mastery, but it is certain that it's a very small amount due to the fact that Son Goku and Son Gohan was able to walk around and continue their daily activities for a solid week without any trouble.
Known To Achieve: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Vegeta, Mirai Trunks, Son Goten, Trunks, Gotenks, Gogeta and Vegetto.


Ascended Super Saiyajin: Achieved by intense training resulting in breaking through the Super Saiyajin wall, and through pure rage.
Known To Achieve: Son Gohan, Son Goku and Vegeta.

Super Saiyajin 3: Achieved through intense training pushing past the Ascended Super Saiyajin.
Known To Achieve: Son Goku and Gotenks.


Super Great Ape: Achieved by having a tail and looking at either a full moon or a power ball and Transforming into the Great Ape while having unlocked the Super Saiyajin power.
Known To Achieve: Son Goku and Vegeta.


Super Saiyajin 4: Achieved by Transforming into the Super Great Ape, gaining control of the primal nature of the beast and focusing the power into a Transformation.
Known To Achieve: Son Goku, Vegeta and Gogeta.


Saiyajin God: Achieved by standing in a circle of five Saiyajins, unlocking the God Ki within.
Known To Achieve: Son Goku.


Super Saiyajin God: Achieved by mastering the Saiyajin God power and focusing and combining it with Super Saiyan. It can completely bypass the Saiyajin God ritual through harsh training.


Thoughts, suggestions?
Edited by Saberoph, Feb 5 2016, 05:11 PM.
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Not bad. Maybe you could add when they were first achieved (chapter/episode number), and by whom? Add a description of each forms physical traits, and the power it is believed to grant (multipliers).

Also, you should probably list Ascended Super Saiyan as Super Saiyan 2, with Ascended being an alternate name. I'd probably mention the unnatural conditions Super Saiyan 3 was achieved under, too.
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Saberoph
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Yeah I'm adding in when they forms were first Achieved/Shown, and by who. I'm also adding the physical differences between each form, but aside from Great Ape and Super Saiyajin, I'm staying away from Multipliers, since everything after SSJ is just speculation and it's mostly opinions. However, I could just list all the speculated Multipliers for each form and just let the people chose which one they like.

I chose Ascended Super Saiyajin because it's the logical progression to the SSJ power, since they did Ascended past SSJ. I felt if I just gave it a number than it doesn't feel as important as it's supposed to.
Edited by Saberoph, Feb 5 2016, 06:09 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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I feel like a few assumptions are being made, particular "ASSj"/Grade 2 increasing speed, which in my opinion contradicts Goku's reasoning that regular Super Saiyan has the best balance of power and speed.

MSSj being able to suppress and increase their power at will isn't necessarily limited to just mastered Super Saiyans.

And the only characters guranteed to have mastered it are Goku and Gohan (and MAYBE Gogeta and Vegetto by proxy). As likely as I think it is at the very least Vegeta mastered it, it isn't 100% confirmed.
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Saberoph
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I wasn't making any assumptions. Grade 2 does appear to increase speed, but it's also very obvious it's not a significant amount. Also, Kakarrot also notes that the Grade forms use too much Ki as well.

As for MSSJ, but that was the big deal for what Kakarrot and Gohan was doing, and not wasting their Ki while in Super Saiyajin.

I could say that's an assumption too, because all Super Saiyajins in the Boo arc seem just as relaxed as Kakarrot and Gohan before they powered up at the Cell Games. Prior to Mastering SSJ, they didn't seem relaxed after Transforming. However, after Mastering that power the user has a more relaxed look to them and seems to also Transform a lot easier. Also, Goten and Trunks clearly show they have the same Mastery Kakarrot and Gohan had during the Cell Games, and with how easy they can Transform is also another sign of Mastering SSJ.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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Saberoph
Feb 5 2016, 06:27 PM
I wasn't making any assumptions. Grade 2 does appear to increase speed, but it's also very obvious it's not a significant amount. Also, Kakarrot also notes that the Grade forms use too much Ki as well.

As for MSSJ, but that was the big deal for what Kakarrot and Gohan was doing, and not wasting their Ki while in Super Saiyajin.

I could say that's an assumption too, because all Super Saiyajins in the Boo arc seem just as relaxed as Kakarrot and Gohan before they powered up at the Cell Games. Prior to Mastering SSJ, they didn't seem relaxed after Transforming. However, after Mastering that power the user has a more relaxed look to them and seems to also Transform a lot easier. Also, Goten and Trunks clearly show they have the same Mastery Kakarrot and Gohan had during the Cell Games, and with how easy they can Transform is also another sign of Mastering SSJ.
How does grade 2 appear to increase speed exactly? There's only 1 fight that uses the form in the entire series, and Vegeta doesn't use regular Super Saiyan in that same fight, so there's nothing to compare. If energy consumption was the only problem then Goku could just go with the whole "mastering" idea and apply it to that instead. Goku also says "All this new mass gives me strength, but it kills my speed", while he said that about USSj, ASSj also increases mass in the same way, and Goku deemed both of them to be inferior to regular Super Saiyan following that line. Goku even calls USSj "one more notch" above ASSj, which to me implies that they both follow the same scale of increased strength with decreased speed, it's just that USSj swaps the stats around much more.

ASSj increasing speed causes too many problems in the long run. The energy consumption wouldn't matter in fights where the fighters are close while in regular Super Saiyan. An absolute perfect example of when ASSj would have been perfect with increased speed AND power would have been the Cell Jr fight. Vegeta was already fighting them on par in regular Super Saiyan, so if he just increased his speed without losing any speed, he could probably one shot his Cell Jr, and the rest of them long before energy consumption became a problem. I think the only way to make sense of this is if ASSj does decrease speed, so if Vegeta did transform he wouldn't be able to hit the Cell Jr's.
The energy consumption isn't even that bad, Vegeta lasted a pretty long time in ASSj, fighting 2nd form Cell, waiting for Cell to absorb #18, waiting for Cell to take out Krillin, fighting the warm up match, fighting Cell while he was serious, firing off a final flash and he STILL only lost the form because he took too much damage, not because his energy drain ran out.

As for mastered Super Saiyan, the only thing it was stated to do was let them walk around without using up too much Ki. It doesn't necessarily mean it was impossible to control before. Goku could potentially have dropped his Ki down to below his base form while in Super Saiyan, but the strain of Super Saiyan itself would still be wearing on him.

Goku only says that he wants to Master Super Saiyan to get rid of the drain. I might be wrong, in which case I'd happily accept the quote that says so, but I don't think anyone ever states that mastering Super Saiyan gives you full control over your ability to suppress or not. All the quotes that talk about it refer only to how it allowed them to walk around in Super Saiyan in a natural state, which would be impossible with their Ki constantly draining, and the strain on their body being small.

It just happens that before this there was never really a reason for a Super Saiyan to suppress their Ki.

Goku vs Freeza. Trunks vs #Freeza. Goku vs #19. Vegeta #19 and #20. Vegeta vs #18. Trunks vs #17/18. Vegeta vs Cell. All these battles required the user (or at least was safest for the user) to be at full power. Goku did however show some control over Super Saiyan when he met Trunks, powering up his finger specifically, and someone had implied that Goku was suppressed because he wasn't fighting.

I guess that mastering it would make it EASIER to control because they don't have any strain making it harder to concentrate. But it definitely was never implied to be needed to master just to control it.
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Saberoph
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Yes Kakarrot does say it kill speed, but this is one of those situations where it can be literally taken either way. However, for Kakarrot to deem SSJ to be the best way to go, he doesn't have to look at just speed, he says they also use up a lot of Ki. So what's the best solution, either attempt to master two other forms that obviously use more Ki than regular SSJ, or just attempt to Master regular SSJ where you won't get the same amount of strain and he's used the form long enough to where he's more than confident that will work, opposed to two other forms that's very new to him. Given they have two years, Mastering SSJ is not only the smarter road to take, but it's the safest way to go as well.


I just meant look at a SSJ at full power and look at one who's Mastered SSJ, they way they handle themselves even at full power is completely different, also Vegeta admits how brilliant it was to Master SSJ, and with Vegeta and Trunks not bulking up at the Cell Games...that does tell us both of them was doing the exact same thing Kakarrot and Gohan was doing. If they weren't, then they would simply just bulk up against the Cell Jr's, but they don't they remain in regular SSJ the whole time.

It was bad wording on my part, but my point was it does give them better control overall while also allowing them to remain in a Transformed state.


Also, as for adding to this list. I think i'll also add False SSJ and Legendary SSJ as well. Later on I may also do a Hypothetical section, on Transformations that could've happened but are never shown...but only the logical ones, not the ones people want to see, that we know will never happen.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

You only covering Saiyan progression or are we gonna get "Power-Ups" and "Super Forms" for other species like Namekians or Androids?
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Saberoph
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I will also be covering that, but this was just like a first draft on the matter. This list will continue to grow, showing all information regarding the circumstances of all Transformations and Power Up(How they were attained, what Chapter/Episode, who achieved said Power Up/Transformation).

So yeah, this will also cover all of Frieza's forms, Fusions, Namekian Fusions, Super Namekian, Cell and Boo's Transformations...Kaioken and even Ultimate Gohan, describing everything in full detail.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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Saberoph
Feb 5 2016, 07:21 PM
Yes Kakarrot does say it kill speed, but this is one of those situations where it can be literally taken either way. However, for Kakarrot to deem SSJ to be the best way to go, he doesn't have to look at just speed, he says they also use up a lot of Ki. So what's the best solution, either attempt to master two other forms that obviously use more Ki than regular SSJ, or just attempt to Master regular SSJ where you won't get the same amount of strain and he's used the form long enough to where he's more than confident that will work, opposed to two other forms that's very new to him. Given they have two years, Mastering SSJ is not only the smarter road to take, but it's the safest way to go as well.
Goku choosing to master regular SSj just because it's easier does make sense, but after he did that in sometime less than 8 months (they were in there for 8 months, and then you add in the time it took for Goku to even come up with this plan, which was likely months), why not using the remaining year and a 4 months in there to also master ASSj if the form is any good? It just seems to me like Goku turning ASSj, and then USSj, both of which follow up with the line "All this mass gives power but kills speed" is meant to be taken as if both forms have the same problem, just to different degrees. Especially with Goku calling USSj "one notch above" ASSj (Viz translation at least).

Quote:
 
If they weren't, then they would simply just bulk up against the Cell Jr's, but they don't they remain in regular SSJ the whole time.

That's some of the evidence I have that ASSj doesn't boost speed though. Even if Vegeta had mastered Super Saiyan here (which I do believe), the extra stamina isn't important at all. Vegeta is equal to the Cell Jr's as a Super Saiyan, giving himself some extra power would let him dispose of them with one shot.

Quote:
 
I just meant look at a SSJ at full power and look at one who's Mastered SSJ, they way they handle themselves even at full power is completely different

I'd assume that's because most times Super Saiyan was used before hand was in a fight, while the first time we ever see a mastered Super Saiyan was Goku and Gohan just casually chatting. But of course we have Goku and Trunks conversation, where Goku still had that serious look to his face which he loses with mastered Super Saiyan.

Quote:
 
It was bad wording on my part, but my point was it does give them better control overall while also allowing them to remain in a Transformed state.

Yeah I can agree it gives them better control. My main problem with Goten and Trunks being MSSj is that it makes little sense. To master Super Saiyan you have to use the form constantly, Goten and Trunks might have been using it while fighting, but they can't have been doing it much. Chi Chi didn't want Goten to do it, and Gohan and Vegeta never knew about the forms, so it's impossible for them to have been Super Saiyans at home.

They DO have those eyes that Goku had when mastering Super Saiyan though, rather than the ones Goku had when he met future Trunks. I dunno... I guess I'd concede that they are mastered Super Saiyans based on that trait, even though logically they shouldn't have found the time to master the form.
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Saberoph
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As for Grade 2, I'm just looking at everything as a whole, the Grade 3 and with both forms requiring too much Ki to begin with. It's just how I interpreted that line. I don't agree with what you're saying, but I don't think you're wrong either, which is why I'm making notes and I'll be adding to the Grade 2 on the knowledge and beliefs on it.

To me a MSSJ just looked more fluid and was able to maintain their current level of power due to their higher level of control. At least to me it seems Mastering the form also gives better control on over their strength too, or they would wreck everything.

I agree that Goten and Trunks having that much control over SSJ is a load of crap, they should've had to achieve it through conventional means during either the Budokai arc or the Boo arc. It would've been more logic to use the death of Vegeta and the assumed death of Gohan for Goten and Trunks to Transform, if not the trigger it would've at least sent them in the right direction. However, that's what we're given so I'm going with it.


I will say this...you at least keep me on my toes in this section, which is one of the things that makes debating here enjoyable.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

Lookin at all these, I'm intrigued at how much Piccolo's Super Namekian form could have been branched (considering Toriyama's love for Piccolo)

Wish Super Namekian form receives same amount of expansion as ASSJ, USSJ & FPSSJ

Piccolo being the genius would've sticked to the Mastered/Full-Powered state to conserve his stamina/strength

Maybe during the 7 years gap (Cell Games ~ Buu Arc), he goez through some kinda break-thru & unlocks further "ascended" Super Namek forms, on par or superior to SSJ2's.

Which honestly makes me think would've gave Piccolo much more relevance as fighter compared to the tutor role he got in Buu Arc
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Dankness Lava
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Dankness Forever

Minor thing, but Vegeta was stated to be able to access Hulking SSj as well as Hyper SSj.
Edited by Dankness Lava, Feb 6 2016, 04:02 AM.
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Saberoph
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Hulking and Hyper SSJ?

I have never heard those terms before...
Edited by Saberoph, Feb 6 2016, 04:11 AM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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Dankness Lava
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Dankness Forever

Saberoph
Feb 6 2016, 04:06 AM
Hulking and Hyper SSJ?

I have never heard those terms before...
Made them up lol, my terms for USSj and ASSj. I like them better.
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