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| The Gap Between #18 and Vegeta. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 28 2016, 10:43 PM (2,482 Views) | |
| + Sandy Shore | Jan 28 2016, 10:43 PM Post #1 |
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At the start of the fight they seem basically even, though neither of them are particularly serious. #18 ramps it up a bit and lands a decent hit on Vegeta, but, despite showing physical damage, he's more than happy to carry on. It seems like Vegeta doesn't consider her out of his range, and as the fight goes on Trunks notes that they're fighting evenly, too. Only, Piccolo asserts that his power is decreasing as the fight goes on - something #18 needn't worry about. Vegeta's power is such that #17 considers him "an incredible guy", at least, but when Vegeta informs #18 that he's the strongest she says he's "nothing special". Is this purely because of his handicap, or is she actually significantly stronger than him? Basically, if we take energy consumption out of the equation—something that seems to have been made a pretty big deal of—and put them at their maximums, how close would you have these two? Vegeta: 2.8 Lady 18: 3 ? Edited by Sandy Shore, Jan 28 2016, 10:45 PM.
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| + Clearin | Jan 28 2016, 11:07 PM Post #2 |
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It's an easy fight to judge since we know both of them were fighting all out (#18 says she was, and we can just assume Vegeta would be since he was losing). Note that this happens from Vegeta blowing up the truck onwards. #18 points out that neither of them have been using their full strength, Vegeta tells her to go all out if she wants a chance at winning and she says she will. From there, #18 headbutts Vegeta which clearly hurts him, but he stays on his feet. -Vegeta punches #18 in the stomach, but she smiles. -#18 knees Vegeta in the stomach which winds Vegeta. -Then #18 palms Vegeta through the side of a mountain. -Vegeta walks out smiling ready for more. -#18 punches Vegeta across the face, back towards the mountain, and chases after him -Vegeta recovers, bounces off the mountain and headbutts #18 in the face, and immediately follows up by smacking her across the face, sending her crashing down. -Vegeta sends a Ki blast at #18, which hits her before she can dodge, but does no damage except to her clothes. -Vegeta tries to kick #18, but she blocks it. -Vegeta and #18 both exchange blows, blocking what seems to be all of each others hits. -At this point Tien cheers Vegeta on, indicating that Vegeta has a chance. Trunks follows that up by saying Vegeta and #18 are fighting evenly. Piccolo says Vegeta will be killed which shocks Trunks and Krillin (meaning that 3 characters saw the fight and thought that Vegeta wasn't necessarily losing), but he doesn't mention any power difference, only the stamina difference. -Vegeta tries to elbow #18 in the face but gets blocked -#18 trips Vegeta up, punches him in the face then breaks his arm. And it's basically all over from there. It's worth noting though that Vegeta does STILL manage to outlast everyone else. A few variables that make it a little harder to figure out: -Was Vegeta using his full power in that punch? It doesn't quite add up to the next hit he does which sends #18 flying to the ground with enough force that she can't even recover from the fall, nor before Vegeta hits her with a Ki blast. This was immediately after Vegeta had told #18 to use her full power, but technically he never said he was using his yet. It's possible he waited to see what she could do before he gave it his all. -How strong was the Ki blast? Earlier Vegeta said he held back on a Ki blast because putting his full power into it would blow up the Earth, so presumably not as strong as he could make it. It also seemed to be a fast Ki blast meant soley to finish off his combo, rather than a strong one like Big Bang Attack or Final Flash. He also needed to fire it before #18 could recover so I doubt it was all that powerful. -Speed, Durability and skill. It's entirely possible that Vegeta was just much faster than average for his PL due to his gravity training (Vegeta's speed was already noted in the Saiyan saga, where he was faster than Kaioken Goku despite having a lower power level before powering up), Vegeta's also got the skill advantage no doubt due to a warrior race while #18 is just a runaway teenager who got experimented on, having no fighting background that we know of. Vegeta's durability has proven to be pretty insane in the Saiyan saga too. These elements would allow Vegeta to match #18 blow for blow at times thanks to his speed and skill even with a much lower power level, but would account for him not doing any shown damage with his punch to the gut and Ki blast. His durability would explain why he managed to take all those hits from someone much stronger than him too. The only thing that wouldn't make sense is, Vegeta would still realise that #18 is much more powerful than him, while the spectators (Trunks, Krillin and Tien) might think Vegeta has a chance due to what they SEE, what Vegeta FEELS would tell him he has no chance, but that isn't shown. We can assume that Vegeta's Ki wasn't affected by "Shouki" and "Yuuki". It looks like Vegeta had his bravery and "right state of mind" (until maybe at the very end when his arm was broken, but it was already too late by then), so his Ki presumably wasn't lowered by those. |
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| + Six Trails | Jan 28 2016, 11:12 PM Post #3 |
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Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town) didn't rival #18, and Vegeta more or less admitted inferiority to that Cell. I think that the gap between Vegeta and Full-Power #18 is quite significant.
Edited by Six Trails, Jan 28 2016, 11:12 PM.
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| ekrolo2 | Jan 28 2016, 11:14 PM Post #4 |
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Considering the fact Piccolo, who's fairly close to the Super Saiyan's needed to double his power to take on 17 who's less than marginally stronger than 18, I'd say the gaps big. |
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| + Sandy Shore | Jan 28 2016, 11:28 PM Post #5 |
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Could you provide the quote, please? Do you mean when he says a mysterious, absurdly large battle power has vanished? Well, it is mysterious and absurdly large, even if not superior to his own, no? If something else, then why does he act as though he has a chance against #18 but doubts he could beat the weaker Cell? |
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| + Clearin | Jan 28 2016, 11:30 PM Post #6 |
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When was that stated? I got the impression #17 was quite a bit stronger than #18 considering: A) He said no ones power rivals his own B) The entire POINT of #18 not being as strong as #17 was to try and remove the whole disobedience problem. It wouldn't make sense to make her power close to #17's. |
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| ekrolo2 | Jan 28 2016, 11:37 PM Post #7 |
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A) He's shown to have an ego so I wouldn't exactly call him a reliable source of information when it comes to power. B) This is Dragon Ball so a tiny difference is all the difference you ever need in life. Just see Vegeta vs Zarbon & Dodoria. Edited by ekrolo2, Jan 28 2016, 11:38 PM.
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| Billa | Jan 28 2016, 11:42 PM Post #8 |
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Thala na Gethu!
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As much I'd like to say 18 & SSJ Vegeta were even (at least initially), its a whole different story tbh Like a user posted, Veggie's superior speed, agility & durability (owing to his many yeats of arduous training) gives extra advantage to him for outlasting EVERYONE (F.Trunks, Piccolo, Tien etc). Had it wasnt for his failing stamina & strength, I'd say he would've stood higher chance. Hence, smaller gap Yet. 18's heavily suppressed imo. She treated the whole fight as game. Using non-fatalistic hits (considering how deadly her Future counterpart was) Piccolo needs boost to just to be even with 17. 17 > 18 I think the gap is pretty big tbh |
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| + Clearin | Jan 28 2016, 11:47 PM Post #9 |
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Sounds like the Vegeta argument which always gets shot down though |
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| + Sandy Shore | Jan 28 2016, 11:47 PM Post #10 |
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She brutally headbutted him, smashed him in to a mountain, and broke his arm. I doubt she'd want to get hit by his blast, either. We've nothing to suggest she was suppressed the entire fight. Nor would there even be a reason for it - she's got the lead, either way. If she could make him feel even more helpless, you don't think she would? Vegeta > Piccolo. Edited by Sandy Shore, Jan 28 2016, 11:48 PM.
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| Billa | Jan 29 2016, 12:05 AM Post #11 |
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Thala na Gethu!
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I loved how she started off tbe fight along the lines of "someone who doesnt know his place" in JPN version. She was hell bent in teaching Veggie a lesson, instead of slaughtherin him. Cuz she had no reason to As I said. 18 used non-critical hits. The headbutt was Head-On collision. Whats so devastating abt a full-frontal hit compared to say, After Image. Sneak behind Veggie's back. Pierce thru his heart with ur metallic arms. Now, thats brutal 18 being dead-serious is the last thing u want. At least against SSJ Veggie. He would've been finished in less than 5 moves, had it was Future 18 Like why bother breaking his arm @ tail end of their fight? Considerin how simple headbutt & palm to face could make Veggie bleed. Just like 2 direct hits & da Saiyan Prince was grievin in pain as 18 landed heavy knee to his gut Veggie > Piccolo sure But I referred to Super Namekian Piccolo who needed Kami-Sama boost in order to stand a chance against 17 18 is definetly inferior. But I'm sure her "blood-lust" activated-mode would rival 17 more or less Just lookin at their Future counterparts makes me say so |
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| + Six Trails | Jan 29 2016, 12:58 AM Post #12 |
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Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P10.1 Vegeta: “One of those guys with mysterious, absurdly large battle powers has vanished…But the other one remains…It’s not No.17 or the other androids. They don’t give off any presence at all…W-who the hell is it…!?” Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P14.4 Vegeta: “They’re all just dicking around with me…! Easily surpassing the Super Saiyan, the greatest in the universe…!” I think these two statements should be enough to infer Vegeta's inferiority. |
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| DBZAOTA482 | Jan 29 2016, 01:37 AM Post #13 |
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Vegeta surprised #18 with his strength and got a compliment out of her even though she shoots him down later. He managed to land a few good hits on her even if they weren't doing any lasting damage and Trunks actually thought he could win... though it was obvious #18 wasn't taking him that seriously as every hit she landed on her did significant damage. Not to mention #17 believe #18 couldn't handle all of the Z-Warriors plus Vegeta on her own. It wasn't a complete defeat like Vegeta vs. Initial Final Form Freeza or SSJ2 Gohan vs. Pre-Zenkai Cell but it was a fight clearly in #18's favor so.... 1.25x - 1.33x gap. Edited by DBZAOTA482, Jan 29 2016, 01:42 AM.
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| Animelover5487 | Jan 30 2016, 09:29 PM Post #14 |
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Yeah 18 was clearly trolling Vegeta. She also said that him and Goku aren't anything special after Vegeta said that Goku isn't any stronger than him. |
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| ahill1 | Feb 1 2016, 11:31 PM Post #15 |
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#18 said she doesn't have to worry about Goku or Vegeta, and basically called them nothing special. #18 should be around Weighted Kamiccolo's power (considering he rivals both of them). Kamiccolo (Weighted) could easily defeat Imperfect Cell, who is probably > SSJ Vegeta. Vegeta is absolutely dumbfounded how strong Kamiccolo (Weighted) was and that's was not even Kamiccolo's full power. In Viz version, at least, Vegeta said something like kamiccolo far surpassing him, then #18 should be quite above Vegeta. When the Androids let the Z warriors live, Piccolo said they didn't feel they were worth killing and they couldn't care less if we live or die. Said that, I think the gap between them is quite large. I have SSJ Vegeta at 75% of #18. Edited by ahill1, Feb 1 2016, 11:33 PM.
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