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...why is racism towards white people normal?
Topic Started: Jan 21 2016, 04:59 PM (710 Views)
+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Been thinking about how white people are treated by every other race etc etc since I seen a post about a dating site "Where White People Meet" or something, basically a dating site for only white people.

Which is clearly a site for white supremacists who hate all other races, a dating site designed specifically for the KKK.

Even though there are equivalents for black, Asian and whatever else, those are fine though no problems here, who would want to date some white trash?


If someone says they're "proud" to be black, Asian, Filipino, Madagascan, whatever then that's cool, be proud of what your people have achieved! Empowering.

Unless you're white 'cause then by saying you're proud to be white you're automatically saying you're glad slavery happened and everything else bad white people have done, you're taking credit for that not anything good. (let's ignore the fact that slavery has happened in pretty much every civilization across the globe at some point)

Disclaimer: Not saying something like a scientific achievement a white person accomplished should be a "white achievement" rather than an achievement of humanity as a whole, just people talk like that regardless of how stupid it is.


Isn't it...completely racist to exclude white people from things like this?
Is it some kind of childish revenge or what? Doesn't scream equality does it...
That's pretty much the only answer I see anyway if you mention it people tend to be like "Haha white boy thinks he's oppressed! How does it feel!?"
Progressive thought pattern.

Now if there were "whites only" bars on streets then sure, f*** that it's not the 20's.
To exclude a race of people from a public place is quite obviously racist but the internet is quite different, everyone can have their own space. If you go on to a devout Christian forum proclaiming Satan as the one true lord, you're obviously going to be banned and quite rightly so.


Anyway I just think it's funny how double standards like these aren't considered racism and the people who enforce them think that they're better people for it, not allowing a specific group of people to say or do something...that just sounds like an oddly familiar thought pattern.
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No

Cuz things aren't equal between whites and ethnic minorities yet. Simple as that.
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Copy_Ninja
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Context, it's all about context.

There seems to be a narrative going around right now that everything is hunky dory with race relations. We have those racial discrimination acts and all that jazz now so everything is totes fine. All races are equal in society and we should just stop talking about it. Which really isn't true. Sure, there's legal equality (mostly, but I'll get to that in a minute) but that's just the bare minimum. What really matters is societal equality which quite plainly isn't there yet.

There's still a lot of racism towards minorities going around. Sure, maybe not the same kind of vitriol we used to have decades ago but it's there. Sly remarks here, subtle digs there, the odd white supremacist who sign up to forums not relating to their stupid beliefs and spout off racist posts about one race being superior to another and then cries and runs off when he's called out on his BS. Then you've got the over-representation of minorities in prison systems, the under representation of minorities in certain fields of work and areas of society, the treatment of minorities by the police force that's supposed to be there to protect them. It all adds up.

Anyway, the point I'm getting at is this. Saying you're proud to be black is an expression of something that's actually meaningful. It means you're proud of a race of people that overcame a lot of adversity and is still fighting for equality. It's a statement that couldn't have been made in the past. It's a way of standing up for a race that still gets the short end of the stick in society. Saying you're proud to be white on the other hand? It doesn't have that. Being proud to be part of the privileged group in society that once committed these horrible atrocities isn't exactly a great thing to say. Now, I'm not advocating for any sort of white guilt for things people in the past did, that would be daft. However, you have to think of the connotations something like that gives off.

Further, about the dating site thing, again it's context. There was a time when minorities were legally excluded by white people, discriminated against and shunned. Anything that says "whites only" is going to have that connotation, especially when we still don't have real equality. A minority dating site doesn't have the same history behind it. And honestly, given the high percentage of white people that exist, a white dating site is pretty redundant since most people are white anyway.

I find most of these debates pretty asinine in truth. It reminds me of people going "well why don't we have straight pride parades" or "where's our white history month?" The answer is kind of obvious.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

But if you're saying you're proud to be white why does that have to involve the bad? Why can one be proud to be black because of adversity but one can't be proud to be white because of great explorers and such of the past who traveled the globe?

The knee jerk reaction is that you're being racist and ignoring that white people have done some awful s***, even though every civilization and race in history pretty much has. Cannibalism? Child sacrifice? Are people from countries were that was rife allowed to ignore that history because they were/are oppressed by white people also?


Regardless of the amount of white people on dating sites you're still likely to encounter people from races you don't find attractive and they might find you attractive, pretty awkward trying to tell someone you don't find other races attractive without sounding racist isn't it? Not like everyone understands how innocuous that is.

I don't see how that's any different from going to a gay/bi website to avoid someone who wants a heterosexual relationship, it's just a preference. Likewise I'm not going to go to eHarmony if I'm looking for someone in to hardcore bondage. Not the place.

Now "white only" is a broad and potentially sketchy preference for sure but heading your profile with "I refuse to date white people" would be exactly the same.


We're not all equal yet in society that's quite obviously true but why should we mirror actions and thought patterns of the past? That's not the way forward.
Yet many think it's okay to automatically assume white people are bad, like some cool edgy joke.

The way forward should be everyone not being so touchy unless people are quite obviously in the wrong, when shop owners start hanging "no blacks" signs on their doors definitely there should be outrage.

It's somewhat like homosexuality and the like, it's still not a complete social norm yet and whenever a celebrity comes out as gay people being like "OMG HE'S GAY OMG OMG OMG FANFICTION TIME, I KNEW IT" just kind of highlights that it's somehow not normal, that they're different from everyone else, that they should stand out in some way even though your sexual orientation should be as meaningless as your skin colour.

Going apes*** over things is no way to make them less big a deal.

Not that it's entirely the same thing.

I feel like
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However, you have to think of the connotations something like that gives off

And
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Context


Are the important things to note here, white people have to walk on egg shells, socially, around race subjects but minorities making huge assumptions about white people with no basis what so ever is...fine, socially.

If you put no thought what so ever in to what might potentially be a non racist statement and instantly call it out for being "racist" it's basically just up to the white person to prove that they're not racist.
As I said the knee jerk reactions need to stop and people need to think about what they're saying or the implications or what they're directly implying.

If someone for instance says they only date white people maybe they are racist, maybe they're a complete bastard overall but the reaction shouldn't be that assumption, those words shouldn't immediately come out of peoples mouths
It should be no different from turning down a homosexual because you are heterosexual, it does not make you a homophobe and not that it doesn't happen but I never see people suggesting that.


So yeah context is key but just as importantly people need to think about it first before riling up the angry internet mobs.
If you went to Tumblr and make a post wherever saying "I'm a white cis male" and people from certain communities saw it there would be an endless amount of hate from just that when it shouldn't matter to anyone.
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* Sousen Ichimonji
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Because white racism in the west is mostly, for example, "don't be proud of your races (colonial, s***ty) past" and black racism is, for example, kids getting killed or injured in police custody. One is rude. One is lethal.
Edited by Sousen Ichimonji, Jan 21 2016, 06:10 PM.
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Because certain members of other races will always use the fact that whites having slaves is more well known than the time their race did.

And make no mistake, every race has done so.
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Copy_Ninja
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Steve
Jan 21 2016, 06:04 PM
But if you're saying you're proud to be white why does that have to involve the bad? Why can one be proud to be black because of adversity but one can't be proud to be white because of great explorers and such of the past who traveled the globe?
This isn't really the same thing. Being proud of overcoming adversity is different because it will still effect your life today. Black people still face discrimination, still feels the effects of their very recent past. All the great explorers and stuff is just being proud of stuff other people have done and has nothing to do with you. The discrimination stuff actually does.

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The knee jerk reaction is that you're being racist and ignoring that white people have done some awful s***, even though every civilization and race in history pretty much has. Cannibalism? Child sacrifice? Are people from countries were that was rife allowed to ignore that history because they were/are oppressed by white people also?


No one has said other races get to ignore their history. Do you know how much s*** Japan gets for trying to brush off their war crimes?

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Regardless of the amount of white people on dating sites you're still likely to encounter people from races you don't find attractive and they might find you attractive, pretty awkward trying to tell someone you don't find other races attractive without sounding racist isn't it? Not like everyone understands how innocuous that is.


No, not awkward at all. You just ignore them, happens all the time. It's part of what everyone should expect going on dating sites. It's not like you even see the person at all, you don't have to have any contact whatsoever. If some person takes offence to that it's their problem not yours because the act of ignoring someone is innocent. The act of going on a whites only site? Less so.

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I don't see how that's any different from going to a gay/bi website to avoid someone who wants a heterosexual relationship, it's just a preference. Likewise I'm not going to go to eHarmony if I'm looking for someone in to hardcore bondage. Not the place.


Both those things are less common and harder to find on an average dating site than "a white person" which is probably the most common demographic you could possibly have.

Quote:
 
Now "white only" is a broad and potentially sketchy preference for sure but heading your profile with "I refuse to date white people" would be exactly the same.


Sure, but that's a more aggressive action than simply going on a site made for minorities.

Quote:
 
We're not all equal yet in society that's quite obviously true but why should we mirror actions and thought patterns of the past? That's not the way forward.
Yet many think it's okay to automatically assume white people are bad, like some cool edgy joke.


Bit of a leap to say this is mirroring the actions and thought patterns of the past. Black people are still in the minority and still the ones suffering discrimination at a systematic level. Having these "double standards" is hardly the same thing as what went on back then. I agree to an extent that people wanting to completely seperate themselves from white people or assuming all white people is bad are wrong and not helpful going forward. However, saying white people excluding black people from something or that there's a difference between black pride and white pride isn't the same thing.

Quote:
 
The way forward should be everyone not being so touchy unless people are quite obviously in the wrong, when shop owners start hanging "no blacks" signs on their doors definitely there should be outrage.

It's somewhat like homosexuality and the like, it's still not a complete social norm yet and whenever a celebrity comes out as gay people being like "OMG HE'S GAY OMG OMG OMG FANFICTION TIME, I KNEW IT" just kind of highlights that it's somehow not normal, that they're different from everyone else, that they should stand out in some way even though your sexual orientation should be as meaningless as your skin colour.

Going apes*** over things is no way to make them less big a deal.


Alright, 2 points here.

1. You can't just say "don't get offended by this", it doesn't help. Especially for something as highly charged as race. Especially when actual real racial discrimination occurs and people continually try to downplay it. When there's actual societal equality, then this conversation is a bit more appropriate. Though you do have a point that some people can be a bit touchy but I don't think it applies to this issue for the most part (though there are always exceptions and some see racism where there isn't any).
2. You can't just a flip a switch with these things, it takes time. People will calm down about it eventually when it settles more in to the norm. Personally I'd say the whole hullabaloo about gay celebrities has been toned down lately.

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white people have to walk on egg shells, socially, around race subjects but minorities making huge assumptions about white people with no basis what so ever is...fine, socially.


It's really not that hard to not be racist, if you have to walk on eggshells then that kind of says something. Also it depends what assumptions you mean. If someone came out and said "I think all white people are racist" they'd receive backlash.

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If you put no thought what so ever in to what might potentially be a non racist statement and instantly call it out for being "racist" it's basically just up to the white person to prove that they're not racist.
As I said the knee jerk reactions need to stop and people need to think about what they're saying or the implications or what they're directly implying.


Depends what it is, sometimes people get called out for stupid reasons and it goes largely ignored. If someone says something and it really blows up, chances are what they said probably has problems. Some fringe media can take things out of context sure, but we're talking about society in general here.

Quote:
 
If someone for instance says they only date white people maybe they are racist, maybe they're a complete bastard overall but the reaction shouldn't be that assumption, those words shouldn't immediately come out of peoples mouths
It should be no different from turning down a homosexual because you are heterosexual, it does not make you a homophobe and not that it doesn't happen but I never see people suggesting that.


But that's not the same though, sexuality is going to directly tie in to sexual preference, how can it not? It's interrelated, race is less so. Sure, people can have preferences and you can just prefer white people, but honestly I can't think of a way saying you won't date black people doesn't come out as being at least a bit racist.

Quote:
 
So yeah context is key but just as importantly people need to think about it first before riling up the angry internet mobs.
If you went to Tumblr and make a post wherever saying "I'm a white cis male" and people from certain communities saw it there would be an endless amount of hate from just that when it shouldn't matter to anyone.


Most of those blogs on Tumblr are ran by angsty teenagers, most of who will grow out of it. Anyway, most people don't tend to care what they think.
Edited by Copy_Ninja, Jan 21 2016, 10:27 PM.
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Frost Demon Mint
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Sousen Ichimonji
Jan 21 2016, 06:09 PM
Because white racism in the west is mostly, for example, "don't be proud of your races (colonial, s***ty) past" and black racism is, for example, kids getting killed or injured in police custody. One is rude. One is lethal.
We're ignoring that it's ridiculously more common for black people to kill or in general incite violence toward white people than the other way around, right?

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Just checking.
Edited by Frost Demon Mint, Jan 21 2016, 06:40 PM.
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Because it's cool and/or acceptable to "revolt" against The Man who used to be or still is the boss, regardless of how outdated it is.
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The whole dating site thing is all about context. Like Copy said, the idea of a white dating site is redundant in the US and the UK because white is the majority skin colour of the population. You must see how it looks? "Look, I know 80% of people on dating sites are white, but I don't want to risk having to look at a profile of a non-white person for one second, so let's just eliminate the possibility altogether" (not to mention the connotations that come with the phrase 'white-only' which are inescapable). However, I can't imagine there being the same controversy over a white dating site that was based in China.

You're creating a non-issue with the whole 'how do you tell someone you don't find them attractive because of their skin colour without sounding tacist?": the answer to that is you don't. Either ignore them, if it's on a dating site, or just tell them "I don't find you attractive". You aren't obliged to tell them why.

To answer the whole 'why is racism towards white people normal?' thing: because it's a complicated issue. Of course all racism is wrong. Everyone knows that, and the people that believe you can't be racist towards white people are racists. It shouldn't be that way, and in the world we're striving towards, it won't be, but currently, you must see why some people view it that way? To put it bluntly, and this by no means represents how I personally view things, but nobody likes a sore winner, and in today's society white people are the winners. One day, hopefully, there will be equality, but today just isn't that day.
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I've noticed the same about Germans ... Even though I'm not German, but only live in Germany, I have to admit that it sucks. People say all kinds of sh*t against Germans and nobody says anything but as soon as a German says something like "that Turk is getting on my nerves" everyone explodes and acts like Hitler was reborn or something .. Guess it's just because if their bad past
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Well, I mock dating sites because I think they're stupid in general. Also, if you're looking for a specific race to date, I might think you're just a little superficial, regardless of whatever race you want tail from. In any case, racism towards whites isn't really that common except by really fringe douches on the left. That being said, fringe douches in the reverse exist on the right as well, so it kind of balances out in that fringe douches are everywhere.

Anyways, the issue with saying "proud to be white" is that there's really no point. I mean, generally when someone says "proud of x race" they are a marginalized group and they're trying to rally their fellows of said marginalized group. Now, if someone said they're proud to be white because they're being discriminated against in...China(random example that's not true), then that's a different case entirely.
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I find no point in saying being proud to be x race because you never put work into being that race, you literally rolled the dice and ended up being that skin colour. Seriously, that's it. Pride is supposed to be put into things you worked for, race isn't something you can work for. It just is, you just are.
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Goddess Ultimecia
Jan 21 2016, 08:53 PM
I find no point in saying being proud to be x race because you never put work into being that race, you literally rolled the dice and ended up being that skin colour. Seriously, that's it. Pride is supposed to be put into things you worked for, race isn't something you can work for. It just is, you just are.
I agree that to be proud of something that you could not affect is nonsensical, but, it is not like the roll of a dice, nor is it only about skin color. Every organism is the manifestation of its entire genetic past, so to say anything like "you could have been any other way" is false on a fundamental level because if your past were different, you wouldn't exist, but somebody else would exist whose attributes would be determined by that different past.

Also, Steve, you pretty much castrated your side of the argument in your OP. If you can't figure out why yourself, it would be foolish for me to explain it to you anyway.

I will, however, explain what the 'racism' against whites is all about and why it's considered normal.

See, the term "equality" can mean two things, and people of a certain political orientation exploit that ambiguity. The meanings are:
1) Equality of opportunity - equal rights under the law, meaning that there are no arbitrary barriers obstructing people's success. F.e. if college admission required 800 points for whites, and 1000 for blacks, that would be inequality of opportunity, and whites would have more opportunity than blacks. However, if it requires 1000 for whites and 1000 for blacks, then it is equality of opportunity. Note though, that under equality of opportunity different outcomes can happen. For example, in basketball teams there is equality of opportunity, yet blacks dominate basketball because they are better at it.

2) See, equality of outcome is not concerned with giving everybody equal opportunity, but achieving equal outcomes. Meaning that, with regards to basketball f.e. even if blacks dominate it because they are better and not because of some imaginary black privilege, equality of outcome would demand that white and black populations are equally represented in basketball, meaning that whites with inferior skills would be forced into the team for the sake of political correctness or something like that. The problem is then, what would equal representation mean? Equal, as in, 50-50, or equal as in proportional to the population. F.e. that if USA is 80% white 20% black that 80% of the team would have to be whites and 20% blacks.

You can notice that in order for equality of outcome to come about, equality of opportunity has to be abolished. This alone proves the inequality of the races.
Because if races were equal, then if you gave them the same opportunities they would have the some results (outcomes). Yet, if you give races the same opportunities, outcomes will be different.

You can probably notice yourself how this ambiguity can be hypocritically exploited. The liberals and blacks will of course b*** about all the areas where whites are superior, BUT you will NEVER hear them b*** about things, few and irrelevant as they may be, where blacks are superior, which already exposes their anti-white bias.

Some black nationalist groups are openly what is called 'racist'... as is expected. Some white nationalist groups are openly 'racist'... again, as is expected.
The problem is that the LIBERALS and HUMANISTS, who one would expect not be 'racist' against anybody... are racist against whites.
I say 'racist' under '' because I know for most people racism means 'saying negative things about any race, regardless of whether they are true or not', but for me racism means 'saying false things about a race', notice the difference.
Anyway, why is racism against whites considered 'normal' in liberal/humanist circles? I've told you much, in this and the other thread too, if you are brave enough intellectually you will figure it out yourself.
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