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Super Episode 25 (27 December 2015)
Topic Started: Dec 28 2015, 12:08 AM (12,109 Views)
EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Majin Nila
Dec 28 2015, 02:55 AM
Japan has received some DBS merchandise. I see quite a few things on ebay. This episode man.... The animation is so crappy.... Maybe the lack of the Funi dub is what's killing it for me and allowing other things to be critiqued. I don't ever recall hating on DBZ's animations when I was growing up. (Maybe I just didn't know any better) Either way, we now know the blurays will fix the animation issues.
Because it sucks, plain and simple and I can't say it any other way. The animation in the earlier series never got this bad and you know what? Even if it did, it also contained some truly spectacular animations where you know the animators went all out to give us something great. Super has none of that. It's best episode would probably rival the more mediocre ones of DBZ.

Where as the original series used about 3500 images per episode, Super instead only uses 3000. It's painfully clear to anyone just how much Toei Animation is half assing Super in terms of animation. This might have been alright in the 90s, but for something in 2015 it looks painfully stiff and dull. You don't even need to be an animation expert to see it. When studios like Madhouse and Ufotable producing movie quality animation for their series, seeing something like Super and just comparing it to the original series points out painfully the difference in animation quality.

And yes it sucks and its unfortunately what Toei Animation has become. Production models, animation quality, all of it doesn't a hold a candle to what the earlier series could produce and even that pales in comparison to what studios are producing now when they put their minds to it. You should be pissed at the animation here because I am too.

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lazerbem
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And 3 minutes, 50 seconds into the episode, Goku is already off-model
Bulma and Jaco's interactions are funny
The animation when Goku moves Freeza's fist looks really weird
While Bulma and Jaco's interactions are still funny, it really clashes with the music
Holy anorexia, what happened to Freeza? His waist is tiny. Dear god, is he off model
Wait, so Goku didn't like fighting Freeza before, now he does?
HAHA! THE BEAM STRUGGLE DIDN'T MAKE SHOCKWAVES!
Cutting away from the beam struggle is annoying
What the Hell is up with the food fetish? Why is Beers's first thought that Champa is here for the food?
Champa being lazy made me crack up
Why is the beam struggle spewing white water droplets? The beams look ugly too
The off model moments continue. Tienshinhan looks like Saitama right after the beam struggle explosion
Freeza's kneeing feels lifeless, like a robot is doing it. He's not putting his body into it
I'm going to stop pointing out the off model shots, but they're really bad
Freeza not pissing his pants at the sight of Beers I like, it's more in character

The animation continues to be bad
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Crazy cat cults in the woods
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滅Are you frightened?

lazerbem
Dec 28 2015, 03:30 AM
And 3 minutes, 50 seconds into the episode, Goku is already off-model
Bulma and Jaco's interactions are funny
The animation when Goku moves Freeza's fist looks really weird
While Bulma and Jaco's interactions are still funny, it really clashes with the music
Holy anorexia, what happened to Freeza? His waist is tiny. Dear god, is he off model
Wait, so Goku didn't like fighting Freeza before, now he does?
HAHA! THE BEAM STRUGGLE DIDN'T MAKE SHOCKWAVES!
Cutting away from the beam struggle is annoying
What the Hell is up with the food fetish? Why is Beers's first thought that Champa is here for the food?
Champa being lazy made me crack up
Why is the beam struggle spewing white water droplets? The beams look ugly too
The off model moments continue. Tienshinhan looks like Saitama right after the beam struggle explosion
Freeza's kneeing feels lifeless, like a robot is doing it. He's not putting his body into it
I'm going to stop pointing out the off model shots, but they're really bad
Freeza not pissing his pants at the sight of Beers I like, it's more in character

The animation continues to be bad
Just like how two solar system level ki blasts failed to nuke earth.
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lazerbem
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Bit different, those didn't have any precedent. With Freeza and Goku, that's not the case. In Super, we saw that two beams from god levels colliding creates shockwaves and hyper dense energy from Beers vs Goku. The same situation is replicated with Freeza, but the same doesn't occur.
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Crazy cat cults in the woods
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

That's because it was obviously a real fight :)

Only holding back destroys the universe.
Edited by EMIYA, Dec 28 2015, 05:30 AM.
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+ Pyrus
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It's the morbid irony rules of the universe. You want to save the universe? Fight all-out. You want to destroy the universe? Hold back.
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Pyrus
Dec 28 2015, 05:37 AM
It's the morbid irony rules of the universe. You want to save the universe? Fight all-out. You want to destroy the universe? Hold back.
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KiklooRapeist
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The episode was a bit dull when I saw it raw. But, once I got a hand of the subbed version it wasn't that boring. Although, it's true that this episode was more of dialog and less of action. Yeah, the art and animation are yet again lower in quality but I am not surprised,since I got used to it by now. Also, regarding the art and animation of Super, it's not that they don't have good artist and budget. It's just that anime('s) like Super,which tend to have 25+ episodes, have to evenly 'thin out' there huge budget across the current possible number of episodes. So, the budget for each episode is usually less when compared to that of an anime with 10~25 episodes only. And, this is just the business standard which most of the animation companies follow.
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Izanagi!

KiklooRapeist
Dec 28 2015, 06:40 AM
The episode was a bit dull when I saw it raw. But, once I got a hand of the subbed version it wasn't that boring. Although, it's true that this episode was more of dialog and less of action. Yeah, the art and animation are yet again lower in quality but I am not surprised,since I got used to it by now. Also, regarding the art and animation of Super, it's not that they don't have good artist and budget. It's just that anime('s) like Super,which tend to have 25+ episodes, have to evenly 'thin out' there huge budget across the current possible number of episodes. So, the budget for each episode is usually less when compared to that of an anime with 10~25 episodes only. And, this is just the business standard which most of the animation companies follow.
Low budget is one thing, but this is just unacceptable. The fact that they think it's acceptable to give us this is ridiculous; just because they know DB will sell doesn't mean that they should intentionally make it bad for the sake of cutting corners and saving money. Instead, why didn't they leave it a while so the other series that they're working on have finished? That way, they can allocate more to Super and ensure that it's actually decent. The obvious answer is capitalising on the popularity of BoG and RF, but they should know that DB is popular enough that waiting a while wouldn't have a huge impact on how popular Super would be.
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ekrolo2
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Nagito Komaeda
Dec 28 2015, 02:46 AM
ekrolo2
Dec 28 2015, 02:27 AM
Well that's the thing about Dragon Ball Super, its meant to sell merchandise. Other series like One Punch Man that live or die based on their DVD and Blu-ray sales need to be good or else they're gonzo. DB is a franchise that's endlessly marketable and the new stuff has actually given Toei big merchandise sales if the recent charts are any indication.

Its basically what Transformers was for us, a show meant to sell toys, back packs and all that stuff with the actual shows quality not being of much importantce. As long as the merchandise sells, its worthwhile.

Anime news network ran some pretty great articles about how the anime economy works so if you guys want more details check them out.
Out of curiosity, has there been any merchandise of Super? I know they released the first DVD set a little while back, but all I've seen recently is figures of Resurrection F and Z, though I suppose they're waiting on really getting into merchandise 'till Super reaches its original material; even they would have to realise that they can't just relabel BoG/RF stuff as Super as sell it again.
Apparently there has if this is any indication:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=32665

With these charts in mind, Dragon Ball is making good money overseas, even surpassing One Piece.
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My Dear Melancholy,

ekrolo2
Dec 28 2015, 02:12 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Dec 28 2015, 02:46 AM
ekrolo2
Dec 28 2015, 02:27 AM
Well that's the thing about Dragon Ball Super, its meant to sell merchandise. Other series like One Punch Man that live or die based on their DVD and Blu-ray sales need to be good or else they're gonzo. DB is a franchise that's endlessly marketable and the new stuff has actually given Toei big merchandise sales if the recent charts are any indication.

Its basically what Transformers was for us, a show meant to sell toys, back packs and all that stuff with the actual shows quality not being of much importantce. As long as the merchandise sells, its worthwhile.

Anime news network ran some pretty great articles about how the anime economy works so if you guys want more details check them out.
Out of curiosity, has there been any merchandise of Super? I know they released the first DVD set a little while back, but all I've seen recently is figures of Resurrection F and Z, though I suppose they're waiting on really getting into merchandise 'till Super reaches its original material; even they would have to realise that they can't just relabel BoG/RF stuff as Super as sell it again.
Apparently there has if this is any indication:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=32665

With these charts in mind, Dragon Ball is making good money overseas, even surpassing One Piece.
Dragonball the GOAT ^_^
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Axiomatically Prodigious
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Pelador
Dec 28 2015, 03:15 AM
How would a blu ray fix the animation? All it does is enhance the image resolution.

And surely you remember these from classic Dbz?

Spoiler: click to toggle


So you know, hasn't always been consistent.


The bluray with episode 1-12 has fixed a large portion of the crappy animations already. There is a thread on comparisons between what we saw and what the bluray will consist of. Also, a few days ago, a video with the entire 5th episode comparison was released to show the differences.
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+ QueenTD
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My Dear Melancholy,

Pelador
Dec 28 2015, 03:15 AM
How would a blu ray fix the animation? All it does is enhance the image resolution.

And surely you remember these from classic Dbz?

Spoiler: click to toggle


So you know, hasn't always been consistent.


Bottom two look okay IMO. Also you're comparing a early 90's cartoon to a 2015 cartoon. You should not replicate past mistakes. Just because one series did bad doesn't mean its okay for other series to repeat it.

Also people bash DBZ all the time. Where is this coming from where if you bash Super that the person defending act like Dbz is being hold to the throne? People complained about Dbz's bad animation and pacing too. Super doesn't get an exception. No one asking for perfect episodes every week but least make it smooth rather than awkward. When Dbz was off model least it was smooth or was tolerable. Very rarely was it complete garbage lol.

I'm not one to pause frame by frame so I can point out Super's animation without pausing. It's far more noticeable than Dbz(Z's bad animation besides a few occasion was least a 5/10 or 6/10.). If you look at the first 25 episodes of each series. The original trio didn't randomly drop this far down the ladder.

Can we stop acting like DBZ never got bashed?
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ekrolo2
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QueenTD
Dec 28 2015, 03:09 PM
Pelador
Dec 28 2015, 03:15 AM
How would a blu ray fix the animation? All it does is enhance the image resolution.

And surely you remember these from classic Dbz?

Spoiler: click to toggle


So you know, hasn't always been consistent.


Bottom two look okay IMO. Also you're comparing a early 90's cartoon to a 2015 cartoon. You should not replicate past mistakes. Just because one series did bad doesn't mean its okay for other series to repeat it.

Also people bash DBZ all the time. Where is this coming from where if you bash Super that the person defending act like Dbz is being hold to the throne? People complained about Dbz's bad animation and pacing too. Super doesn't get an exception. No one asking for perfect episodes every week but least make it smooth rather than awkward. When Dbz was off model least it was smooth or was tolerable. Very rarely was it complete garbage lol.

I'm not one to pause frame by frame so I can point out Super's animation without pausing. It's far more noticeable than Dbz(Z's bad animation besides a few occasion was least a 5/10 or 6/10.). If you look at the first 25 episodes of each series. The original trio didn't randomly drop this far down the ladder.

Can we stop acting like DBZ never got bashed?
I agree with this 100%. Z had a lot of issue that Super shouldn't get away with blatantly repeating, neither should it be excused for repeating GTs problems as well. Its just a shame a lot of people just shrugg this off and say "Its new Dragon Ball content so stfu and like it!" or "Well Z did this too so Super doing it is fine!".
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King Kakarot
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lazerbem
Dec 28 2015, 05:15 AM
Bit different, those didn't have any precedent. With Freeza and Goku, that's not the case. In Super, we saw that two beams from god levels colliding creates shockwaves and hyper dense energy from Beers vs Goku. The same situation is replicated with Freeza, but the same doesn't occur.
The fact Freeza could challenge Goku and make him struggle automatically makes him nigh universal

:w00t:
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