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Goku's parents as SSJG2/SSJB vs DBZ + Movies
Topic Started: Dec 3 2015, 06:06 PM (1,579 Views)
gokussj1000
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btw bardock and gine stomps all the villains.they could beat all the villains with a flick of their finger literraly
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Tinny
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Going by feats in Dragon Ball versus is the wrong way to go, otherwise Piccolo jr is stronger than Omega Shenron and Freeza in the same league as Beerus. The only useful indicators of strength in db versus is who beat who by how much. I don't think they are getting past Freeza
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King Kakarot
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SSJG boost makes the likes of Kid Goku into Multi Galactic levels

Which again is more enough to deal with anyone in Z/Gt or the movies
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TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

King Kakarot
Dec 4 2015, 12:15 PM
SSJG boost makes the likes of Kid Goku into Multi Galactic levels

Which again is more enough to deal with anyone in Z/Gt or the movies
Hey remember that Superman post you did? With facts and scanes? And how proud I was and Itachi was and everyone else was? Wanna know why we were. Because you used solid evidence and included canon kickass scans. Do you even know the math? Like I asked you for a multiplier, a number. Do math. Get me some vector calculus or something.
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King Kakarot
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Huh I could of sworn I posted that number

But it's basically bigger than the difference of 10^62-10^41

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy)

Since Goku and Beerus were going to destroy things outside time and space it would be higher but start reaching into the territory of unquantifiable
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Tinny
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There is no way Goku became Novemdecillions of times stronger, he was competitive with Vegeta who was 10% of Beerus with a rage boost. Even if we seriously low ball Vegeta to 1% that's still really really stupid, as Vegeta is still stronger than Goku by several trillions of times, why is he so concerned about surpassing someone he can finger flick and accidentally kill? Your numbers make absolutely no sense in the context of the story. Even if Goku was a .0000000001 compared to Rageta's 1 (let's say Beerus is 10000), a boost of the Novemdecillions would have made Goku capable of finger flicking Whis and Beerus. Jeeze, talk about lowballing, you've probably made Goku weaker than Oolong.


That number is so ridiculous, you need to ignore literally the entire story for it to make sense.
Edited by Tinny, Dec 5 2015, 01:45 PM.
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King Kakarot
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That's what's shown in the story.Rageta forced Beerus to use 10%.Rage boosts don't make much sense but thats what we're given.

No matter what way you put it Goku couldn't get a boost in the hundreds and do what he did against Beerus.

Threatening to destroy a galaxy is one thing which takes a huge amount of energy to do but threatening to destroy the universe is something completely different all together.

The numbers make perfect sense according to the story.Making Beerus uses 10% says a lot about how strong Vegeta was.


Like i said before people saying SSJG is just 1000 x ssj3 makes no sense

You can't threaten to destroy a universe with a 1000× boost
Edited by King Kakarot, Dec 5 2015, 01:55 PM.
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Tinny
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King Kakarot
Dec 5 2015, 01:53 PM
That's what's shown in the story.Rageta forced Beerus to use 10%.Rage boosts don't make much sense but thats what we're given.

No matter what way you put it Goku couldn't get a boost in the hundreds and do what he did against Beerus.

Threatening to destroy a galaxy is one thing which takes a huge amount of energy to do but threatening to destroy the universe is something completely different all together.

The numbers make perfect sense according to the story.Making Beerus uses 10% says a lot about how strong Vegeta was.


Like i said before people saying SSJG is just 1000 x ssj3 makes no sense
Except 10% of Beerus didn't even destroy or endanger a galaxy, Hell it barely effected Earth, this is a guy that you seem to think needs a boost in the Novemdecillions in order to combat. "Rage boosts don't make sense but that's what we're given" is a bad excuse. Vegeta was already strong, and the rage boost made him far tougher than usual, maybe around ten or a hundred times stronger even, though it was still useless. Now you come in saying ssjg is Novemdecillions times stronger. Does that make sense? No. It's obvious his boost was it best in the thousands or millions.

Why? Ssj2 Vegeta was 10%. Ssjg Goku is presumably at most below 100%, likely at 60% or so since Whis felt they were both barely in the cusp of god power. So frankly, yes, he could get a boost in the hundreds or thousands or millions. Because he did get that boost. And fought Beerus as he did. Unless you would like to explain how (let's be generous and say) how a .000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,1% gets novemdecillions of times stronger and is around 50-70%? And Goku is far stronger than that puny number at the beginning.

And? If Vegeta is 10% he should be able to destroy galaxies easily. What does he do against Beerus? He displaces shine water, and when they hit the ground there's not so much as a crack in the sea floor, a few shockwaves. That's it. Now you're telling me that because Goku made bigger shockwaves, he's novemdecillions stronger? I think it's pretty obvious power level and feats don't scale in a linear manner. It's pretty clear that the only for these numbers to work is if you ignore everything but episode 12 and episode 5.

The story holds that Vegeta's Novemdecillions boost means he can't even mildly effect the Earth? No, Vegeta is 10% and did nothing like what Goku did, not even on a massively smaller scale. Goku did not become novemdecillions stronger just based on logic.

It makes more sense than Goku being weaker than Bulma. Or Vegeta being trillions of times stronger (why is he worried about surpassing someone he can finger flick?).

Beerus interactions when fighting with the z fighters more than prove you wrong, he hit Gohan with fat buu and hit Gotenks multiple times and they both lived, a kiai from him only severely wounded the three. Novemdecillion gap? Please, it should have been light taps sending them past the horizon if it was that big. There is no way that the gap is any number that gets past even 20 zeroes, going to sixty is just falling to hype.



Unless you routinely have gaps of numbers with more than twenty zeroes, your gap makes no sense, and even then you're making the gaps far larger than they need to be.
Edited by Tinny, Dec 5 2015, 02:32 PM.
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King Kakarot
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You really need to Learn what attack potency is.Are 4th form Freeza death beams weaker than his attacks in his first form becuase they mildly affected Namek?

What's next Vegito isn't a planet buster becuase he never destroyed or endangered earth?

Someone who is star level with a boost in the thousands can't destroy a galaxy let alone threaten to destroy a universe.


It's simple mathematics


Edit: You speak as if Beerus can't supress himself as to not kill people
Edited by King Kakarot, Dec 5 2015, 02:44 PM.
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Tinny
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King Kakarot
Dec 5 2015, 02:35 PM
You really need to Learn what attack potency is.Are 4th form Freeza death beams weaker than his attacks in his first form becuase they mildly affected Namek?


Someone who is star level with a boost in the thousands can't destroy a galaxy let alone threaten to destroy a universe.


It's simple mathematics


Edit: You speak as if Beerus can't supress himself as to not kill people
Are you saying Beerus limited himself beyond one or ten percent? Because he explicitly went to ten against Vegeta. Nothing shown in his fight against the z fighters implied that huge gap you talk about.

And? It's clear feats and pl don't scale linearly, unless you'd like to tell me why Freeza can't destroy solar systems (something that Cell would do later) while Roshi is moon busting and Vegeta is planet busting? Why is Cell saying he can destroy a solar system like it's impressive? Freeza was far far far weaker and destroying planets, Roshi the moon.
It's because power levels aren't linear. Feats only get a little more powerful even with the huge boosts in power and vice versa

Then surely you can explain it to me how saiyan arc Vegeta is incapable of destroying the solar system while DB Roshi can destroy the moon at power levels lower than the three hundreds. The moon is a whole fourth of Earth yet Vegeta says he's gonna destroy the planet as if that's impressive, are you really telling me Vegeta is only four times stronger than Roshi? That Goku saiyan arc is about the same level as db Roshi? What are you smoking, because that's clearly impossible.

That was him suppressed, if he was surpassing himself to novemdecillionths he'd lightly tapping then and sending everyone over the horizon, not swinging fat buu and slapping Gotenks multiple times.
Edited by Tinny, Dec 5 2015, 03:15 PM.
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King Kakarot
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Again you're missing the point.

So let's break it down how much energy is required to destroy a galaxy?

SSJ Goku back on Namek could only destroy planets.

What's the gap between these two?

You keep thinking in terms of power levels which don't accurately reflect on what a character can do.

Edit: why do they need to be flicked to the horizons Beerus can control his energy just fine hence how he doesn't kill Bulma instantly


They don't need to be flying off the face of earth when Beerus hits them.
Edited by King Kakarot, Dec 5 2015, 03:14 PM.
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Tinny
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King Kakarot
Dec 5 2015, 03:06 PM
Again you're missing the point.

So let's break it down how much energy is required to destroy a galaxy?

SSJ Goku back on Namek could only destroy planets.

What's the gap between these two?

You keep thinking in terms of power levels which don't accurately reflect on what a character can do.

Edit: why do they need to be flicked to the horizons Beerus can control his energy just fine hence how he doesn't kill Bulma instantly


They don't need to be flying off the face of earth when Beerus hits them.
They are a measurement of their power however, when did you think they weren't? Are you just getting on that screwattack "PLs see BS" wagon? They measure how strong a character is, how can you say they can't? The problem is the scouters, not the measurements used. The multipliers in in power refer to power level, not megatons, not joules, and not pounds.

He does however show that when he restricts himself in such a way it's obvious, the beating he gave everyone indicates a much smaller gap than you say. Beerus put forward some minimal effort, with how big you say the gap is it should have been literally waving his hand.

The energy required to do x feat and the strength of the characters aren't related, unless you care to explain why Saiyan arc Vegeta is only four times stronger than Roshi.
Edited by Tinny, Dec 5 2015, 03:24 PM.
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King Kakarot
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Again what's the gap between someone who can destroy a galaxy and SSJ Goku who can only destroy planets?

Power levels are nonsense and hold no real meaning to accurately show a characters capabilities

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Tinny
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King Kakarot
Dec 5 2015, 03:27 PM
Again what's the gap between someone who can destroy a galaxy and SSJ Goku who can only destroy planets?

Power levels are nonsense and hold no real meaning to accurately show a characters capabilities

It's currently unknown because no one has shown that particular amount power yet. It is however less than Novemcillions because the gap between Vegeta and Beerus in BoG is times a hundred at best. Aside from that it is unknown, but also not needed because this is a show about martial artists, not galactic construction workers. Usefulness is in who you can fight and beat, not in how much TNT you pack. Now that we're done with your weighted, leading, and irrelevant question, do you care to explain how Roshi only needs kkx5 to kick Vegeya's a*** apparently? Your explanation is basically just hiding that you're using inconsistent feats instead of cold hard power chains. The feats are only useful in other versus where the pl system can't apply.

Ah, so you are on the bandwagon. Power levels and power chains and such are the most useful tool in finding out how much stronger someone is than another, it's why there's an entire section of dbzf on power levels alone. To say they're useless is to ignore Dragon Ball as a whole. Especially when it's in favour of your system where Roshi can kick Omega Shenron's arse, or where he's a fourth as strong as Saiyan arc Vegeta.


I mean really, tell me who has the better blasts, DB Roshi or Omega Shenron? According to the power level and chain system Roshi loses, according to your feat system Roshi wins every beam of war. I wonder who will agree with you...
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Edited by Tinny, Dec 5 2015, 03:47 PM.
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King Kakarot
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So you don't know the difference between galactic and planet lvl lmfao and again with the power levels nonsense

You can't use power levels as an argument since they are irrelevant in the first place

Someone who can destroy a star and someone who can destroy only a planet tells me the difference is in the billions

But you're laughable powere levels are saying you only need a 2x multiplier to get from planet to star level.

Hence why everyone laughs at power levels since they aren't accurate at all.

Saying Beerus who can destroy a universe vs SSJ3 Goku who can probably destroy a star is only a couple hundred times stronger is down right laughable.

Don't tell me making someone 100× stronger is going to make them galactic let alone universal

Math disagrees with you everytime

Edited by King Kakarot, Dec 5 2015, 03:56 PM.
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