I would like some help from people who are savvy with computer parts

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I would like some help from people who are savvy with computer parts
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 15 2015, 10:47 PM (7,217 Views)
Axiomatically Prodigious	Nov 15 2015, 10:47 PM Post #1
Posts: 2,433 Group: Saiyan Elite Member #8,939 Joined: January 29, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime DragonBall [Z, S, GT], Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Gangsta, Steins;Gate, Berserk, Tokyo Ghoul What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DragonBall [Z, S], Legend of Zelda	Here are the specifications of my desktop: Motherboard: Biostar Hi-Fi A85W CPU: AMD A-10-5800K APU with Radeon HD Graphics (4CPU's) ~3.8GHZ Memory: 16GB ram GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 (3 monitors, 1 uses HDMI, and the other 2 use DVI) I put this desktop together around July of 2013. I'd like to upgrade the GPU to something better. I started playing Fallout 4 and the best graphics that I can run at the moment is medium settings. At these settings, the graphics card is getting pushed hard and the game lags pretty often. I was looking into the following GPU's: -Asus GTX 750 TI OC 2GB ($129) -Gigabyte GTX 960 2GB ($180) -PNY GeForce GTX 750 TI 2GB ($164) I don't want to have to spend too much, but these are the prices I've found these cards around. These cards all have at least 1 HDMI port and at least 2 DVI ports. I haven't looked at CPU's yet, but I think I'm going to want to upgrade it as well. For the people whose forte is computers, what do you recommend in terms of GPU's and CPU's? 1) What is the difference between the GTX 750TI and the GTX 960? 2) What CPU do you recommend I get that would be compatible with this motherboard that I have that would be a decent upgrade? I don't game much, and I don't really care about 60 fps and ultra graphics, but my setup is definitely showing its age. Right now, with everything that I use the computer for, it's been running very nicely. However, I'd like to start playing some more games on here and I feel like what I am currently working with is not acceptable.
	Super Saiyan Rose Many thanks to LNC! <3 See you Space Cowboy... The Humanoid Typhoon Not Justin Cook


FutureProtagonist	Nov 15 2015, 11:49 PM Post #2
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	A 750 Ti is in most cases, more than twice as fast as a 650, and the 960 is around 55% faster than that. As you can see from this graph, the difference in Fallout 4 is huge, more so than in a general suite. It's actually 66% faster in average FPS. But, there's your CPU to consider. According to this benchmark, an A10-7870k, a similarly performing chip to yours can't produce effective framerates in this game, in that light, here's my advice: -Go for the cheaper 750 Ti, the 960 will be too bottlenecked to be worth it in this situation. -Your socket/chipset doesn't support very fast processors, there's no particular upgrade path for you, having a system with a discrete GPU. You'd need a new motherboard if you wanted to make a performance jump in that department. You will most likely be CPU bottlenecked in Fallout 4. -Stay away from that $164 750 Ti. It's not even remotely worth it. Make sure you know your power supply's capability as well. 750 Tis are very light on power requirements, but just make sure that you know whether the model you're buying requires a 6 pin connector. A 750 Ti should run fine on basically any PSU that's of a reputable brand. EDIT: In light of some other information, I've reconsidered. The 960 will be held back too much for it to be worth the expenditure. Edited by FutureProtagonist, Nov 15 2015, 11:57 PM.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


Axiomatically Prodigious	Nov 16 2015, 12:05 AM Post #3
Posts: 2,433 Group: Saiyan Elite Member #8,939 Joined: January 29, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime DragonBall [Z, S, GT], Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Gangsta, Steins;Gate, Berserk, Tokyo Ghoul What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DragonBall [Z, S], Legend of Zelda	Alright, with Black Friday and Cyber Monday coming up, what would you recommend I get in terms of a new motherboard, CPU, and GPU? I'm not sure how much I would want to spend, but lay down my options whenever you have time. The PSU that I currently have is a Kingwin 750W.
	Super Saiyan Rose Many thanks to LNC! <3 See you Space Cowboy... The Humanoid Typhoon Not Justin Cook


FutureProtagonist	Nov 16 2015, 12:14 AM Post #4
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	Well, generally, the most balanced/solid systems can be found in the $700 or so range, but given that we can reuse your PSU, RAM, storage and probably case, you could try something along these lines: PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($182.01 @ Amazon) Motherboard: ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($81.98 @ Newegg) Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Superclocked ACX 2.0 Video Card ($309.99 @ Amazon) Total: $573.98 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-11-15 19:18 EST-0500 Or, basically the same thing, but with a 960: PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($182.01 @ Amazon) Motherboard: ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($81.98 @ Newegg) Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card ($193.98 @ Newegg) Total: $457.97 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-11-15 19:19 EST-0500 Can you give me the model number on that PSU? I see two very different 750W units from that manufacturer. One is a sketchy rebranded 500W unit and the other is an 80+ platinum beast. Staw away from AMD cards if you want to play Fallout 4. Edited by FutureProtagonist, Nov 16 2015, 12:20 AM.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


Axiomatically Prodigious	Nov 16 2015, 12:20 AM Post #5
Posts: 2,433 Group: Saiyan Elite Member #8,939 Joined: January 29, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime DragonBall [Z, S, GT], Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Gangsta, Steins;Gate, Berserk, Tokyo Ghoul What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DragonBall [Z, S], Legend of Zelda	What's more important: the GPU or the CPU? I don't think I'd want to spend $300 on a GPU... :/ I'd be more willing to drop that money on a better CPU. The RAM that I have is called the Patriot Viper. It has a red metal casing. The exact model of the PSU is MK-750W. What's the difference between these three? http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvn960ixoc4gd http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvn960oc4gd http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvn960g1gaming4gd Edited by Axiomatically Prodigious, Nov 16 2015, 12:23 AM.
	Super Saiyan Rose Many thanks to LNC! <3 See you Space Cowboy... The Humanoid Typhoon Not Justin Cook


FutureProtagonist	Nov 16 2015, 12:27 AM Post #6
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	For gaming, it's definitely the GPU, but it is true that i7s are starting to pull away from i5s in modern games. Getting one should give your chipset more longevity. It's kind of a tossup. If you go for the i7-4790, with a 960, here's what it would cost: PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($312.98 @ Newegg) Motherboard: ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($81.98 @ Newegg) Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card ($193.98 @ Newegg) Total: $588.94 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-11-15 19:25 EST-0500 Basically the same price as the 970 machine. You may be right about this, dropping settings (like godrays) will free up GPU performance, but there's no way of eliminating CPU bottlenecks, not really. You may get a more consistent experience with the i7. Looking at minimum framerates in the CPU graph, the i7 is the only one that provides minimums at 60. The difference between those three is basically nothing in performance. Just differences in clock speed, and you can manually change them yourself. Pretty much an 960 should be able to achieve a respectable overclock with minimum tweaking. Each one seems to be longer than the last, though. I'd go with the two fan model. The small one is for mini itx systems and the large one is expensive and overkill. Edited by FutureProtagonist, Nov 16 2015, 12:30 AM.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


Axiomatically Prodigious	Nov 16 2015, 12:47 AM Post #7
Posts: 2,433 Group: Saiyan Elite Member #8,939 Joined: January 29, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime DragonBall [Z, S, GT], Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Gangsta, Steins;Gate, Berserk, Tokyo Ghoul What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DragonBall [Z, S], Legend of Zelda	Damn, too many things to take into consideration. First, are my motherboard and CPU at a dead end? Is there anything else that can be done with those two or am I just s*** out of luck with them? Second, why would I want the i7 + GTC 960 combo over the i5 + GTX 970 one? What does one do better than the other? From what you've been telling me, the i7 will last longer than the i5 in terms of future upgrades. What about the graphics cards; is the 970 that much better than the 960 that is deserves the $100 bump? Finally, what do you recommend I should get and why? I think the motherboard is set in stone if I'm going to go down this route. Also, what about the PSU? Is it satisfactory with this GPU, CPU, and MB combo?
	Super Saiyan Rose Many thanks to LNC! <3 See you Space Cowboy... The Humanoid Typhoon Not Justin Cook


FutureProtagonist	Nov 16 2015, 01:07 AM Post #8
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	I realize it's a lot to take in. Sorry if my writing isn't really helping, I'll try and make it easier to understand. CPU: -Your current CPU performs 95% as well as any CPU that is compatible with your motherboard. The differences in FM2 units mainly lie in the onboard GPU, which holds no relevance to a user like you who has a discrete graphics card. -i5 vs i7: both of them have 4 physical CPUs built into them, the i7 has a technology called hyperthreading, which creates a "virtual core" for each physical one. In an ideal situation, they perform about 30% faster than an i5. In most games, the difference is small, but observe a CPU benchmark in Fallout 4: Spoiler: click to toggle Adjusting quality settings in games has little to no effect on CPU performance. CPUs basically limit the maximum FPS number that you can achieve in a game, no matter which settings or resolution. In the benchmarking run featured in this review, no matter what you do, you will not achieve an average FPS higher than 77 in Fallout 4 using an i5, and a 92 using an i7. With an i5, you will experience drops to around 45 FPS, no matter the settings, with an i7, you will receive drops to 57 no matter the settings. GPU: -960 vs 970. Observe the following benchmark results on ultra 1920x1080 resolution (Full HD/1080p): Spoiler: click to toggle GTX 960: Average: 63 FPS Minimum: 51 FPS -Will be slightly bottlenecked by i5 in some situations, as the i5 has minumums as low as 45 FPS. This test setup uses an i7 (and an even faster one than the 4790K), hence the 960 can stretch its legs. It will not be at all bottlenecked at all by an i7. GTX 970: Average: 81 FPS +28% over 960 Minimum: 65 FPS +27% over 960 -Will be somewhat severely bottlenecked by an i5, as it will only be able to achieve 77 FPS average, and 45 FPS minimum, will be unnoticeably bottleneck by an i7. Now, what do these results mean? On 99% of all monitors, FPS numbers above 60 are meaningless, but FPS numbers below 60 (even by 1) are significant, which is a bit difficult to explain, but you're basically dropping to 30 whenever you drop below 60, or you get screen tearing. The really important number here is the minimum FPS; on ultra, both 970 and 960 achieve over 60 FPS average at ultra, and the settings can be adjusted to fix minimums on the 960. The problem is the CPU; with an i5, you will experience drops below 60 far more often than you would on an i7, which harms the experience significantly. With this game, if you want a consistent 60 FPS experience, you will want an i7, and something around a 960. The motherboard is of a high quality, but it's very "barebones", though I would not suggest anything more if you're pairing it with a non overclockable CPU like the 4790 and 4460. Your RAM and PSU are plenty sufficient for any setup involving any of the parts I've listed. Well, you might consider picking up a new PSU. The reviews for that have been mixed. There was one report of it destroying the motherboard. I'd be more comfortable with something like this in my system. It's a downgrade in wattage on paper, but 600W from a reliable brand is far greater than 750W from a sketchy off-brand. The one you have isn't even 80+ certified. I wouldn't want anything that wasn't 80+ in my system. Edited by FutureProtagonist, Nov 16 2015, 01:13 AM.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


Buuberries	Nov 16 2015, 01:26 AM Post #9
No Posts: 7,150 Group: Members Member #8,753 Joined: December 30, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime The Passion of Christ What Browser do you use? Christianity Favourite Manga The Bible	Think of these as an investment. You're futureproofing. Totes worth it imo to splash out a good amount of dosh on hardware. Get the most from your purchases for the next few years rather than spending those years eventually discontent with mediocrity. Edited by Buuberries, Nov 16 2015, 01:29 AM.
	¯\(°_o)/¯


Axiomatically Prodigious	Nov 16 2015, 01:33 AM Post #10
Posts: 2,433 Group: Saiyan Elite Member #8,939 Joined: January 29, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime DragonBall [Z, S, GT], Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Gangsta, Steins;Gate, Berserk, Tokyo Ghoul What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DragonBall [Z, S], Legend of Zelda	So, there's about a ~$120 difference in the i5 and i7, and about a ~$140 difference between the GTX 960 and GTX 970. CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Superclocked ACX 2.0 Video Card Motherboard: ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard PSU: Rosewill Glacier-600M I suppose these are on my to buy list by 2016. Does that look good to you? I'm going to assume this is going to be an insane difference in performance once everything is in and running.
	Super Saiyan Rose Many thanks to LNC! <3 See you Space Cowboy... The Humanoid Typhoon Not Justin Cook


FutureProtagonist	Nov 16 2015, 01:48 AM Post #11
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	Majin Nila Nov 16 2015, 01:33 AM So, there's about a ~$120 difference in the i5 and i7, and about a ~$140 difference between the GTX 960 and GTX 970. CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Superclocked ACX 2.0 Video Card Motherboard: ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard PSU: Rosewill Glacier-600M I suppose these are on my to buy list by 2016. Does that look good to you? I'm going to assume this is going to be an insane difference in performance once everything is in and running. That would be a beautiful system that's well balanced and can handle pretty much anything for the foreseeable future. And yeah, expect a massive jump. At peak performance, the i7 is about three times as fast as your current CPU, and the 970 is likely around five times faster than the 650, possibly more, really. Don't worry that there seems to be an imbalance. CPU performance improvements are generally small and incremental, there are no faster CPUs than i7s (mostly). Edited by FutureProtagonist, Nov 16 2015, 01:51 AM.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


Axiomatically Prodigious	Nov 16 2015, 01:56 AM Post #12
Posts: 2,433 Group: Saiyan Elite Member #8,939 Joined: January 29, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime DragonBall [Z, S, GT], Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Gangsta, Steins;Gate, Berserk, Tokyo Ghoul What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DragonBall [Z, S], Legend of Zelda	Alright, thanks for all of the help, FP. I'll update this thread as I find deals on these parts in the coming few weeks.
	Super Saiyan Rose Many thanks to LNC! <3 See you Space Cowboy... The Humanoid Typhoon Not Justin Cook


FutureProtagonist	Nov 17 2015, 12:33 AM Post #13
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	You may want to consider a Xeon processor instead, I just learned this very recently, but this model Xeon is basically identical to a 4790, the only difference is it has an (unnoticeably) lower clock speed, and lacks integrated graphics. It is, however, $60 cheaper. The difference to you is negligible, and it's compatible with your motherboard.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


Axiomatically Prodigious	Nov 17 2015, 12:40 AM Post #14
Posts: 2,433 Group: Saiyan Elite Member #8,939 Joined: January 29, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime DragonBall [Z, S, GT], Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Gangsta, Steins;Gate, Berserk, Tokyo Ghoul What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DragonBall [Z, S], Legend of Zelda	Well then, that's a bit of a stir up! Let me ask you this, FP. Is my current motherboard suitable for the future? I could go ahead and get the 960 for $180 alongside this CPU, but how does that bode for me long term? http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/420/Intel_Core_i7_i7-4770_vs_Intel_Xeon_E3-1271_v3.html http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-E3-1231-v3-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790 Unreal how close they are!!! I actually found a brand new one on ebay for $240 shipped. What do you think? Edited by Axiomatically Prodigious, Nov 17 2015, 12:49 AM.
	Super Saiyan Rose Many thanks to LNC! <3 See you Space Cowboy... The Humanoid Typhoon Not Justin Cook


FutureProtagonist	Nov 17 2015, 12:54 AM Post #15
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	Not particularly well. Look at this once more: The CPU called the A10-7870K should be about equal to yours (slightly faster, perhaps) and it performs, just not well in Fallout 4. Though, there are some things you might be able to do to mitigate the CPU/GPU limitations. Shadow distance apparently has an effect on how the game stresses your CPU, and if you have godrays set anywhere above "low" you're wasting GPU power, as there's no perceptible difference from low to ultra. It's really up to you though, if you can enjoy the game with a 650 and that CPU, I'd say keep that, but I only see a two viable upgrade paths for you: -keep your current system, buy a 750 Ti (this one is $90 after a $20 rebate) and double your GPU performance, upgrade the whole thing somewhere down the line. -buy a whole new system with an i5/i7/Xeon and a 970/960 4GB. Anything else, and your system is just too imbalanced IMO. The nice thing about CPU upgrades is that thanks to the very slow pace of CPU performance increases, you can keep something like an i7 for a very long time. Majin Nila I actually found a brand new one on ebay for $240 shipped. What do you think? That's a great price, especially if that's after tax. If you're sure it's what you want, it's a good deal. Edited by FutureProtagonist, Nov 17 2015, 12:57 AM.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


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