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New DragonBall Movie?
Topic Started: Oct 30 2015, 10:21 PM (5,325 Views)
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I Yoeri

ekrolo2
Oct 31 2015, 09:03 PM
So, the worst offender of the whole lot is what counts? Good to know.
Give it a break. If you don't like Dragonball, why are you here?
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ekrolo2
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Who says I dislike Dragon Ball? I dislike most of its fandom along with Minus, Cell and F but regardless I generally like the series.
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FutureProtagonist
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir

Jesus Christ. Another movie? What is the point of this now that we have Super?

Oh. Right.
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I Yoeri

ekrolo2
Oct 31 2015, 09:18 PM
Who says I dislike Dragon Ball? I dislike most of its fandom along with Minus, Cell and F but regardless I generally like the series.
You just dislike AT then? I know you shouldn't follow him religiously if you love Dragonball, but it seems like some fans go out of their way to hate on his latest work just because it seems "hip" to do.
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I like him when it feels like he puts at least some effort his work which is approximately until the Freeza arc. I mean, there was bad or boring or mediocre things before then, but the series was overall still good to great regardless some chunks not being that great. After that, it's more or less down hill with only BoG and certain sections of the Boo Saga seeming like the only times he gave a damn anymore.

F is more or less a big flashing red light for me atm, he said he was surprised Toei even went with the "script" he gave them for F which immediately tells me even he didn't think it was much. I'd like to think that if he cared at all, he would've probably told them "Uhh, maybe I should take another gander at this?".

I'm not saying Toriyama should just do stuff because he likes it, doing manga is a job, but just because you're in it for the money doesn't mean you shouldn't give a damn either.
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My Dear Melancholy,

Emmeth
Oct 31 2015, 08:58 PM
QueenTD
Oct 31 2015, 06:43 PM
Emmeth
Oct 31 2015, 06:25 PM


Freeza wasn't rehashed, he was the second coming.
Mecha Freiza
Fusion Reborn
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Plan to kill SSJ

Freiza's five coming is more like it.

:)
- He came back for a few chapters as Mecha Freeza, he was never confirmed dead.
- Non-canon.
- Non-canon.
- Non-canon.

I only count him as "coming back" if AT has worked on it.
Dragonball doesn't have a canon. And why count on what you chose what count? Do you consider SSJ4 as a transformation? AT didn't create it so does it count as a transformation?
Edited by QueenTD, Oct 31 2015, 09:28 PM.
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I Yoeri

Not gonna get into another discussion about canonical work. What AT has actually written is canon, that's my standpoint.

That's good reasoning, ekrolo, I can respect that. I've just seen people hating on it, not because of that, because of Freeza. Freeza seems to get the most hate for some reason, where he is actually the best villain to bring back.
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Does him coming back get hate because its him? I mean, Cell doesn't really have anything going on with anyone and Boo's not even dead so Freeza seems like a good choice. Especially with the whole "Beerus kinda sorta ordered me to kill the Saiyans" angle retconned into his backstory.
Edited by ekrolo2, Oct 31 2015, 09:36 PM.
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I Yoeri

ekrolo2
Oct 31 2015, 09:34 PM
Does him coming back get hate because its him? I mean, Cell doesn't really have anything going on with anyone and Boo's not even dead so Freeza seems like a good choice. Especially with the whole "Beerus kinda sorta ordered me to kill the Saiyans" angle retconned into his backstory.
I guess people just hate him as a character? Or maybe it's the fact that he was brought back, because people seemingly hate when creators bring back previous characters. I personally like when they do that, if it's done right. I feel like it was done right in FnF.
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I find that a hilarious complaint because this is the series that's basically the worst when it comes to keeping anyone dead and gone. Especially if it gives them a perfect potential send off after they bite the dust.
Edited by ekrolo2, Oct 31 2015, 09:43 PM.
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My Dear Melancholy,

I loved the movie except Freiza having same weakness.

I'm the few who liked Whis time travel.
Edited by QueenTD, Oct 31 2015, 09:54 PM.
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Quote:
 
That's good reasoning, ekrolo, I can respect that. I've just seen people hating on it, not because of that, because of Freeza. Freeza seems to get the most hate for some reason, where he is actually the best villain to bring back.
This is what we call an overly narrow superlative.

The right thing to do is to come up with a new villain, or at the very least, make the old villain more interesting. Resurrection F failed miserably at the latter, even though Freeza "changing" is the premise of the movie. There was nothing in Resurrection F that hadn't already been done better in the Freeza arc.

Resurrection F was shallow fanservice all the way through; it can barely even be called a story once Freeza actually arrives on Earth. Anything mildly interesting was exhausted in the first half, and most of it, even the things that initially looked interesting to me (Beerus, Whis, Goku and Vegeta's weaknesses and Sorbet), fell flat in execution. Anything truly meaningful gets pushed aside in favor of padded, mindless fight scenes and cheap characterization (of Goku and Vegeta).

I don't know what the writers were thinking when they came up "Goku is too relaxed during fights" (produce one example of this from the manga). The portrayal of "Vegeta" was laughable too, especially his lack of camaraderie with Goku. Remember when Vegeta begged the earthlings to help Goku defeat Boo, and used himself as a human shield to buy time for Goku (twice)? That doesn't count as "working together"? Vegeta had long since moved past his disdain for Goku as well his obsessive rivalry, but that Vegeta is what all the casual fans think of, so we better make him more like that I guess.

And of course this "working together" thing has no payoff as Goku and Vegeta each fight Freeza on their own. Vegeta was completely irrelevant to Freeza's ultimate defeat. In fact, everything that occurred in the movie except Whis mentioning he can reverse time was irrelevant to Freeza's defeat.
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FutureProtagonist
Oct 31 2015, 09:54 PM
Quote:
 
That's good reasoning, ekrolo, I can respect that. I've just seen people hating on it, not because of that, because of Freeza. Freeza seems to get the most hate for some reason, where he is actually the best villain to bring back.
This is what we call an overly narrow superlative.

The right thing to do is to come up with a new villain, or at the very least, make the old villain more interesting. Resurrection F failed miserably at the latter, even though Freeza "changing" is the premise of the movie. There was nothing in Resurrection F that hadn't already been done better in the Freeza arc.

Resurrection F was shallow fanservice all the way through; it can barely even be called a story once Freeza actually arrives on Earth. Anything mildly interesting was exhausted in the first half, and most of it, even the things that initially looked interesting to me (Beerus, Whis, Goku and Vegeta's weaknesses and Sorbet), fell flat in execution. Anything truly meaningful gets pushed aside in favor of padded, mindless fight scenes and cheap characterization (of Goku and Vegeta).

I don't know what the writers were thinking when they came up "Goku is too relaxed during fights" (produce one example of this from the manga). The portrayal of "Vegeta" was laughable too, especially his lack of camaraderie with Goku. Remember when Vegeta begged the earthlings to help Goku defeat Boo, and used himself as a human shield to buy time for Goku (twice)? That doesn't count as "working together"? Vegeta had long since moved past his disdain for Goku as well his obsessive rivalry, but that Vegeta is what all the casual fans think of, so we better make him more like that I guess.

And of course this "working together" thing has no payoff as Goku and Vegeta each fight Freeza on their own. Vegeta was completely irrelevant to Freeza's ultimate defeat. In fact, everything that occurred in the movie except Whis mentioning he can reverse time was irrelevant to Freeza's defeat.
I can understand that pov very well. However I'd like to counter it a bit...

I know that it's weak, but the whole point of the movie is that Freeza hasn't changed despite so many years in "Earth's Hell". His weakness was still consistent to his character, which I found charming. However, it made little difference to him as a character since he was killed off anyway. I see why it's weak.

I feel like the whole "working together" thing never happened in the movie and as a result they agreed on in the very end of the movie to actually try that. Of course, this is all ridiculous since they've basically retconned the end of the Boo arc. Again, I see your point.

There's always ways to correct this in a new movie (not for Freeza obviously cuz he dead now), so a new movie could be a good thing. It's a risk to take.

@Queen I like how Whis can't turn back time indefinitely. It's a limited technique, but powerful nonetheless.
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I know that it's weak, but the whole point of the movie is that Freeza hasn't changed despite so many years in "Earth's Hell". His weakness was still consistent to his character, which I found charming. However, it made little difference to him as a character since he was killed off anyway. I see why it's weak.
It could have worked if it were done right, but the movie needed a strong villain. Freeza with all the same weaknesses as he had before just isn't one. If Sorbet was the real villain of this movie, it would have improved greatly, especially if done well, but it's a Freeza show, and it doesn't impress from that angle.
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ekrolo2
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Freeza's weaknesses shouldn't have been the driving force. Him overcoming his own and abusing the ones that heroes haven't at all (leaving the Dragon Balls out for anyone to use, not working together, letting their own absurd code of the warrior bulls*** to get in the way,....) would've been a great way to do the theme of change and why it can be a good thing and how a lack of change isn't.

The movie as we have it tries to do this, but the characters aren't consistent at all with their previous selves and when they recognize an opportunity to better themselves, Goku and Vegeta just laugh it off and pretend like nothing happened.
Edited by ekrolo2, Oct 31 2015, 10:20 PM.
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