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Which version of Cell is Dabra equal to?
Topic Started: Oct 7 2015, 10:39 PM (9,730 Views)
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Nagito Komaeda
Oct 12 2015, 04:41 PM
Solid Snake
Oct 12 2015, 04:38 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 12 2015, 02:48 PM
Solid Snake
Oct 12 2015, 02:42 PM
Notaka you brought up a good point regarding Babidi reading Super Saiyan Goku's Kiri level. Babidi is shocked that a "human" could generate 3,000.

This may be a stretch but I think he would've said something to Dabura if Goku exceeded Dabura's level imo. I can't remember exactly but once he read the numbers for both Goku and Yakon, he pretty much knew his opposition was going to win.

So I think he's adept at using the meter to determine possible outcomes.

In regards to Dabura --

Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”

Vegeta though isn't 100% stating out they'd win by themselves. He's including them all in the statement where they could possibly be able to beat him.

And Dabura might've been crazy but he had every intention of fighting the 3 of them together knowing they could increase their Kiri level to at least 3,000. If that says anything, he could be at 9,000 Kiri and once they decided to let Gohan fight first, he could have adjusted his strength to solely deal with him.

Though the Saiyans weren't worried though cause they all had access to Super Saiyan 2 and could've beaten him with extreme ease had it arrive to that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the pointer on the Kiri meter at the fullest? Could be that it just measures up to 3,000. Also, Babidi doesn't note it increasing when Goku begins tapping into his SSJ2 power, so either he wasn't paying attention when that was happening or the meter topped out at 3,000.

Also notice how Vegeta comments on Kibito's situation, implying that Kibito could've actually done something if he wasn't so shocked.

Vegeta knows that he has SSJ2, at the very least, and he isn't one to talk about teamwork unless it's absolutely necessary. So unless you think Dabura >~ SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre-Majin), that's a throwaway statement.
That's up for debate on the meter but it doesn't change the fact that Goku's Super Saiyan form wasn't frightening Dabura or Babidi. As I said, they were only stunned at a human having that type of power but if it was max, then surely Babidi would've referenced at Dabura being weaker or something.

Kibito wasn't gonna get anything done even if he was composed, unless you think base Gohan likely would get done-in as well?

Teamwork or not, that's how Vegeta said it, giving implications that together, they should manage something not he alone (I was talking about as Super Saiyan only cause Dabura doesn't know about it; his confidence can only stem from assuming that's their max power).
So, do you think Dabura > SSJ Goku? If not, that would mean that Goku's suppressed, and that throws the argument straight out of the window.

Vegeta implies that Kibito would've been able to stay alive if he was composed, despite being able to estimate how strong Dabura is.

Vegeta knows he himself has SSJ2, though. If he felt that he could take on Dabura by himself as a SSJ2, he wouldn't spout that nonsense about working together.
Of course, as a few pointed out, Goku generalized Dabura's initial showing of strength to that of Perfect Cell's and he can't be beaten without Super Saiyan 2 level of strength IMO.

How? Dabura is far stronger, and therefore faster, then Kibito. So how could he have managed?

Maybe, that's a possibility, but he could've probably just reserved it for Goku only to surprise him.
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Solid Snake
Oct 12 2015, 04:49 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 12 2015, 04:41 PM
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Oct 12 2015, 04:38 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 12 2015, 02:48 PM
Solid Snake
Oct 12 2015, 02:42 PM
Notaka you brought up a good point regarding Babidi reading Super Saiyan Goku's Kiri level. Babidi is shocked that a "human" could generate 3,000.

This may be a stretch but I think he would've said something to Dabura if Goku exceeded Dabura's level imo. I can't remember exactly but once he read the numbers for both Goku and Yakon, he pretty much knew his opposition was going to win.

So I think he's adept at using the meter to determine possible outcomes.

In regards to Dabura --

Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”

Vegeta though isn't 100% stating out they'd win by themselves. He's including them all in the statement where they could possibly be able to beat him.

And Dabura might've been crazy but he had every intention of fighting the 3 of them together knowing they could increase their Kiri level to at least 3,000. If that says anything, he could be at 9,000 Kiri and once they decided to let Gohan fight first, he could have adjusted his strength to solely deal with him.

Though the Saiyans weren't worried though cause they all had access to Super Saiyan 2 and could've beaten him with extreme ease had it arrive to that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the pointer on the Kiri meter at the fullest? Could be that it just measures up to 3,000. Also, Babidi doesn't note it increasing when Goku begins tapping into his SSJ2 power, so either he wasn't paying attention when that was happening or the meter topped out at 3,000.

Also notice how Vegeta comments on Kibito's situation, implying that Kibito could've actually done something if he wasn't so shocked.

Vegeta knows that he has SSJ2, at the very least, and he isn't one to talk about teamwork unless it's absolutely necessary. So unless you think Dabura >~ SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre-Majin), that's a throwaway statement.
That's up for debate on the meter but it doesn't change the fact that Goku's Super Saiyan form wasn't frightening Dabura or Babidi. As I said, they were only stunned at a human having that type of power but if it was max, then surely Babidi would've referenced at Dabura being weaker or something.

Kibito wasn't gonna get anything done even if he was composed, unless you think base Gohan likely would get done-in as well?

Teamwork or not, that's how Vegeta said it, giving implications that together, they should manage something not he alone (I was talking about as Super Saiyan only cause Dabura doesn't know about it; his confidence can only stem from assuming that's their max power).
So, do you think Dabura > SSJ Goku? If not, that would mean that Goku's suppressed, and that throws the argument straight out of the window.

Vegeta implies that Kibito would've been able to stay alive if he was composed, despite being able to estimate how strong Dabura is.

Vegeta knows he himself has SSJ2, though. If he felt that he could take on Dabura by himself as a SSJ2, he wouldn't spout that nonsense about working together.
Of course, as a few pointed out, Goku generalized Dabura's initial showing of strength to that of Perfect Cell's and he can't be beaten without Super Saiyan 2 level of strength IMO.

How? Dabura is far stronger, and therefore faster, then Kibito. So how could he have managed?

Maybe, that's a possibility, but he could've probably just reserved it for Goku only to surprise him.
Goku makes a comment on Dabura's strength, saying that he'd be trouble 7 years ago, but that they can beat him now. That's with Gohan appearing to be SSJ and without Goku knowing that Vegeta has SSJ2. The claim is inclusive, meaning that Gohan and Vegeta are both in it, and Goku only had suspicions that Vegeta had achieved SSJ2, certainly not enough basis to assume that was the case.

I dunno, ask Vegeta, he's the one that made the statement. If Kibito being a 'bumbler' got him killed and not his lack of strength, what does that imply?

He wouldn't make himself seem weaker in front of Goku. He cares about besting him, but he wouldn't keep it under wraps and make Goku seem superior
Edited by Yu Narukami, Oct 12 2015, 05:00 PM.
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Kibito was only implied to be a difficult match for Base Gohan. Say what you will about Dabura's competency, but there's no way the Base Saiyans are defeating him when it required at least SSJ to fight him in the manga.
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Nagito Komaeda
Oct 12 2015, 04:59 PM
Solid Snake
Oct 12 2015, 04:49 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 12 2015, 04:41 PM
Solid Snake
Oct 12 2015, 04:38 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 12 2015, 02:48 PM
Solid Snake
Oct 12 2015, 02:42 PM
Notaka you brought up a good point regarding Babidi reading Super Saiyan Goku's Kiri level. Babidi is shocked that a "human" could generate 3,000.

This may be a stretch but I think he would've said something to Dabura if Goku exceeded Dabura's level imo. I can't remember exactly but once he read the numbers for both Goku and Yakon, he pretty much knew his opposition was going to win.

So I think he's adept at using the meter to determine possible outcomes.

In regards to Dabura --

Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”

Vegeta though isn't 100% stating out they'd win by themselves. He's including them all in the statement where they could possibly be able to beat him.

And Dabura might've been crazy but he had every intention of fighting the 3 of them together knowing they could increase their Kiri level to at least 3,000. If that says anything, he could be at 9,000 Kiri and once they decided to let Gohan fight first, he could have adjusted his strength to solely deal with him.

Though the Saiyans weren't worried though cause they all had access to Super Saiyan 2 and could've beaten him with extreme ease had it arrive to that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the pointer on the Kiri meter at the fullest? Could be that it just measures up to 3,000. Also, Babidi doesn't note it increasing when Goku begins tapping into his SSJ2 power, so either he wasn't paying attention when that was happening or the meter topped out at 3,000.

Also notice how Vegeta comments on Kibito's situation, implying that Kibito could've actually done something if he wasn't so shocked.

Vegeta knows that he has SSJ2, at the very least, and he isn't one to talk about teamwork unless it's absolutely necessary. So unless you think Dabura >~ SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre-Majin), that's a throwaway statement.
That's up for debate on the meter but it doesn't change the fact that Goku's Super Saiyan form wasn't frightening Dabura or Babidi. As I said, they were only stunned at a human having that type of power but if it was max, then surely Babidi would've referenced at Dabura being weaker or something.

Kibito wasn't gonna get anything done even if he was composed, unless you think base Gohan likely would get done-in as well?

Teamwork or not, that's how Vegeta said it, giving implications that together, they should manage something not he alone (I was talking about as Super Saiyan only cause Dabura doesn't know about it; his confidence can only stem from assuming that's their max power).
So, do you think Dabura > SSJ Goku? If not, that would mean that Goku's suppressed, and that throws the argument straight out of the window.

Vegeta implies that Kibito would've been able to stay alive if he was composed, despite being able to estimate how strong Dabura is.

Vegeta knows he himself has SSJ2, though. If he felt that he could take on Dabura by himself as a SSJ2, he wouldn't spout that nonsense about working together.
Of course, as a few pointed out, Goku generalized Dabura's initial showing of strength to that of Perfect Cell's and he can't be beaten without Super Saiyan 2 level of strength IMO.

How? Dabura is far stronger, and therefore faster, then Kibito. So how could he have managed?

Maybe, that's a possibility, but he could've probably just reserved it for Goku only to surprise him.
Goku makes a comment on Dabura's strength, saying that he'd be trouble 7 years ago, but that they can beat him now. That's with Gohan appearing to be SSJ and without Goku knowing that Vegeta has SSJ2. The claim is inclusive, meaning that Gohan and Vegeta are both in it, and Goku only had suspicions that Vegeta had achieved SSJ2, certainly not enough basis to assume that was the case.

I dunno, ask Vegeta, he's the one that made the statement. If Kibito being a 'bumbler' got him killed and not his lack of strength, what does that imply?

He wouldn't make himself seem weaker in front of Goku. He cares about besting him, but he wouldn't keep it under wraps and make Goku seem superior
Goku is aware of Gohan and himself having the form but they wouldn't have to gang up on him if they were planning on using Super Saiyan 2.

Kibito wasn't gonna survive against Dabura no matter what Vegeta is saying in that regard. Taking it like that is putting Kibito higher then Gohan's base when he used Super Saiyan against Dabura. The chain gets funky: SSJ Gohan > Kibito = B. Gohan > Dabura = Perfect Cell

That is how it look if you think Kibito could do something if he wasn't confused and on guard.
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We're still claiming Dabura was suppressed against Gohan, right?
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Pyrus
Oct 12 2015, 05:45 PM
We're still claiming Dabura was suppressed against Gohan, right?
Are you gonna force me again, Pyrus?
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Oct 12 2015, 05:48 PM
Pyrus
Oct 12 2015, 05:45 PM
We're still claiming Dabura was suppressed against Gohan, right?
Are you gonna force me again, Pyrus?
I don't force people to do anything. That's wrong. You make your own choices, friend. :)
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Oct 12 2015, 06:09 PM
Vold the Meme
Oct 12 2015, 05:48 PM
Pyrus
Oct 12 2015, 05:45 PM
We're still claiming Dabura was suppressed against Gohan, right?
Are you gonna force me again, Pyrus?
I don't force people to do anything. That's wrong. You make your own choices, friend. :)
"Again" implies that you've forced me before tho , Piros. But yes. Dabby didn't use everything (I'm not gonna say "suppressed") against Son Gohan. Me and Drew already went rounds tho, so most of what I would say, I've already said.
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"I am the bone of my sword."

What's with this whole Dabura was suppressed nonsense going on? If that's the case Dabura's the biggest idiot in the series. Kid Boo is looking at him and shaking his head wondering how stupid he could be? Why would Dabura be suppressed to the point where he can barely even damage Gohan? Why not just power up a bit and start laying that necessary beatdown on Gohan to get the energy? It's pretty simple right.

I mean 50% Freeza wasn't fighting SSJ Goku going:

"Arrrgh! I can't defeat him! if only I had more power! How can I get more power! Damn it! If only I had at least 50% more power I could do something! Curse you monkey!"

It's like...then power up you dumbass. I don't even know how this is even an argument. Dabura was barely doing any damage to Gohan in their fight, Babidi himself states this. If Dabura has more power on him, then why doesn't he use it?
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Not only that, but we're given such a minute indication that he was holding back (his one line that he'd beat Gohan if they fought again) that it's such a futile endeavor to claim as much. He never remarks that he's got more power in reserve, Babidi never scolds him for holding back power, none of the heroes ever ponder if he's holding back (which they're usually pretty good about, see Freeza and Cell), it's never shown that he powers up even in the face of a stronger adversary in Majin Boo nor is it stated or implied he does, and none of the secondary materials make mention of or allude to this ideal.

If it wasn't power that he was holding back, was it effort? That would contradict his characteristic of being loyal to Babidi since his mission was to gather as much energy as possible from Gohan. Holding back effort would directly contradict his goal.

Was it more techniques? I suppose that's a possibility, but what could he have up his sleeve that's more effective than stone spit and a surprise sword attack?

I can't think of anything else he could have been holding back.
Edited by Pyrus, Oct 12 2015, 07:04 PM.
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lmao, bait. he didn't need to raise power; he was winning! lol.
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Oct 12 2015, 07:04 PM
lmao, bait. he didn't need to raise power; he was winning! lol.
Winning but failing at his goal? :huh:
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look, you can think whatever and be perplexed, but its simple to me. He wasn't tired; Son Gohan was; I don't have to make this up, and I don't have to say how stupid a manga character is. Face facts.
Edited by DEY DID DIS 2 ME, Oct 12 2015, 07:07 PM.
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Beat "Son Gohan needed a senzu, and Dabra was fresh". Let's not diverge.
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Gohan hadn't brought out the big guns yet, though, because there wasn't any need. As soon as his stamina got low enough, he would've pulled out a Kamehameha and roasted Dabura.
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