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Which version of Cell is Dabra equal to?
Topic Started: Oct 7 2015, 10:39 PM (9,732 Views)
Notaka
Member Avatar
Always Wright

Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:46 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:28 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:25 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:18 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:14 PM
Chapter: 459 (DBZ 265), P2.2-3
Badidi: “How about it, Dabra? Just to be sure, do you have confidence that you can defeat that Earthling [Gohan]?”
Dabra: “Naturally. I fought him a little bit before, after all. There’s no doubt that I can take care of trash like that.”

If this doesn't mean that Dabura is stronger than Gohan, Then I don't know what it would mean.

@Nagito Komaeda:
Gohan did actually take some damage.
What's Dabura going to say? ''Sorry, Master Babidi, I'm not strong enough to take him out.''?

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Goku specifies stamina, not ki.
But he didn't.

About the quote you gave us, Gohan at his best IS stronger than Dabura.SSJ1 Gohan isn't.

Come on, Goku LITERALLY stated that Dabura is as strong, if not stronger than Cell.
Either one is stronger than Gohan.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”

Vegeta states that Gohan is pathetic and should have been able to defeat dabura.

Let me ask you this:
If Gohan was stronger, why didn't he kill dabura ?
Simple answer, He's weaker than Him.
He didn't beat Dabura right away because Dabura was focusing on using tricks and magic to fight. Notice how Dabura uses his stone spit against Gohan. If he was suppressing, why would he use a technique that would rob Babidi of an energy source? Not exactly the MO of a superior fighter, is it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Babidi comment on Dabura's poor performance, saying that he needs to cause more damage? Even Dabura's magic attack, which hit Gohan head-on, hardly did anything. Gohan just flies back up and rips off his torn gi.
He used the technique so he can Immobilize Gohan to rake out Gohan's energy sending him to Buu.

It's easy to damage an immobilized opponent.

Babidi's quote just proves my point further, Because he knows that Dabura is much more capable of this, hinting that he was suppressed against Gohan.

Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P2.5-6
Babidi: "Thr... 3,000 kiri...!! H-how does an Earthling have 3,000 kiri of energy...?!!
Dabra: “3,000 kiri…That’s strange…There shouldn’t be any human race like that.”

He's not even remotely shocked about Goku's power, after 7 YEARS of TRAINING.
He's just surprised.

Unless you have SSJ Gohan stronger than SSJ Goku.
You mean, immobilise him by turning him to stone? He can't hurt him when he's stone, otherwise he'd just die. The stone spit was a move made in desperation.

Yeah, and apparently (according to Daiz 7, iirc) you only need 300 kiri to destroy a planet or two. We know that Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga is capable of destroying a planet, so even if we low-ball it and say 300 kiri = 10,000, that would mean SSJ Goku is 100,000.
Who's to say he can't control parts who become stone and what's not ?


So Yakon has a Powerlevel of 26,000.Right.

Listen, Goku stated that Dabura is as strong as cell.
You can choose either Full power Cell, or the cell that fought against Goku.
Both of them are stronger than Gohan.

Edited by Notaka, Oct 11 2015, 08:52 PM.
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Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:50 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:46 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:28 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:25 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:18 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:14 PM
Chapter: 459 (DBZ 265), P2.2-3
Badidi: “How about it, Dabra? Just to be sure, do you have confidence that you can defeat that Earthling [Gohan]?”
Dabra: “Naturally. I fought him a little bit before, after all. There’s no doubt that I can take care of trash like that.”

If this doesn't mean that Dabura is stronger than Gohan, Then I don't know what it would mean.

@Nagito Komaeda:
Gohan did actually take some damage.
What's Dabura going to say? ''Sorry, Master Babidi, I'm not strong enough to take him out.''?

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Goku specifies stamina, not ki.
But he didn't.

About the quote you gave us, Gohan at his best IS stronger than Dabura.SSJ1 Gohan isn't.

Come on, Goku LITERALLY stated that Dabura is as strong, if not stronger than Cell.
Either one is stronger than Gohan.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”

Vegeta states that Gohan is pathetic and should have been able to defeat dabura.

Let me ask you this:
If Gohan was stronger, why didn't he kill dabura ?
Simple answer, He's weaker than Him.
He didn't beat Dabura right away because Dabura was focusing on using tricks and magic to fight. Notice how Dabura uses his stone spit against Gohan. If he was suppressing, why would he use a technique that would rob Babidi of an energy source? Not exactly the MO of a superior fighter, is it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Babidi comment on Dabura's poor performance, saying that he needs to cause more damage? Even Dabura's magic attack, which hit Gohan head-on, hardly did anything. Gohan just flies back up and rips off his torn gi.
He used the technique so he can Immobilize Gohan to rake out Gohan's energy sending him to Buu.

It's easy to damage an immobilized opponent.

Babidi's quote just proves my point further, Because he knows that Dabura is much more capable of this, hinting that he was suppressed against Gohan.

Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P2.5-6
Babidi: "Thr... 3,000 kiri...!! H-how does an Earthling have 3,000 kiri of energy...?!!
Dabra: “3,000 kiri…That’s strange…There shouldn’t be any human race like that.”

He's not even remotely shocked about Goku's power, after 7 YEARS of TRAINING.
He's just surprised.

Unless you have SSJ Gohan stronger than SSJ Goku.
You mean, immobilise him by turning him to stone? He can't hurt him when he's stone, otherwise he'd just die. The stone spit was a move made in desperation.

Yeah, and apparently (according to Daiz 7, iirc) you only need 300 kiri to destroy a planet or two. We know that Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga is capable of destroying a planet, so even if we low-ball it and say 300 kiri = 10,000, that would mean SSJ Goku is 100,000.
Who's to say he can't control parts who become stone and what's not ?


So Yakon has a Powerlevel of 26,000.Right.

Listen, Goku stated that Dabura is as strong as cell.
You can choose either Full power Cell, or the cell that fought against Goku.
Both of them are stronger than Gohan.

That's pure conjecture. It isn't implied in the manga at all, so it's a humongous stretch to say that.

How unskilled do you think Dabura is then? He's got a power advantage against Gohan, yet he can barely damage him. His magic attack did nothing but tear his gi, and Babidi even chimes in and comments on Dabura not damaging Gohan enough, iirc.
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Notaka
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Always Wright

Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:56 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:50 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:46 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:28 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:25 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:18 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:14 PM
Chapter: 459 (DBZ 265), P2.2-3
Badidi: “How about it, Dabra? Just to be sure, do you have confidence that you can defeat that Earthling [Gohan]?”
Dabra: “Naturally. I fought him a little bit before, after all. There’s no doubt that I can take care of trash like that.”

If this doesn't mean that Dabura is stronger than Gohan, Then I don't know what it would mean.

@Nagito Komaeda:
Gohan did actually take some damage.
What's Dabura going to say? ''Sorry, Master Babidi, I'm not strong enough to take him out.''?

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Goku specifies stamina, not ki.
But he didn't.

About the quote you gave us, Gohan at his best IS stronger than Dabura.SSJ1 Gohan isn't.

Come on, Goku LITERALLY stated that Dabura is as strong, if not stronger than Cell.
Either one is stronger than Gohan.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”

Vegeta states that Gohan is pathetic and should have been able to defeat dabura.

Let me ask you this:
If Gohan was stronger, why didn't he kill dabura ?
Simple answer, He's weaker than Him.
He didn't beat Dabura right away because Dabura was focusing on using tricks and magic to fight. Notice how Dabura uses his stone spit against Gohan. If he was suppressing, why would he use a technique that would rob Babidi of an energy source? Not exactly the MO of a superior fighter, is it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Babidi comment on Dabura's poor performance, saying that he needs to cause more damage? Even Dabura's magic attack, which hit Gohan head-on, hardly did anything. Gohan just flies back up and rips off his torn gi.
He used the technique so he can Immobilize Gohan to rake out Gohan's energy sending him to Buu.

It's easy to damage an immobilized opponent.

Babidi's quote just proves my point further, Because he knows that Dabura is much more capable of this, hinting that he was suppressed against Gohan.

Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P2.5-6
Babidi: "Thr... 3,000 kiri...!! H-how does an Earthling have 3,000 kiri of energy...?!!
Dabra: “3,000 kiri…That’s strange…There shouldn’t be any human race like that.”

He's not even remotely shocked about Goku's power, after 7 YEARS of TRAINING.
He's just surprised.

Unless you have SSJ Gohan stronger than SSJ Goku.
You mean, immobilise him by turning him to stone? He can't hurt him when he's stone, otherwise he'd just die. The stone spit was a move made in desperation.

Yeah, and apparently (according to Daiz 7, iirc) you only need 300 kiri to destroy a planet or two. We know that Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga is capable of destroying a planet, so even if we low-ball it and say 300 kiri = 10,000, that would mean SSJ Goku is 100,000.
Who's to say he can't control parts who become stone and what's not ?


So Yakon has a Powerlevel of 26,000.Right.

Listen, Goku stated that Dabura is as strong as cell.
You can choose either Full power Cell, or the cell that fought against Goku.
Both of them are stronger than Gohan.

That's pure conjecture. It isn't implied in the manga at all, so it's a humongous stretch to say that.

How unskilled do you think Dabura is then? He's got a power advantage against Gohan, yet he can barely damage him. His magic attack did nothing but tear his gi, and Babidi even chimes in and comments on Dabura not damaging Gohan enough, iirc.
If he was unskilled, why did he put up a fight against Gohan, who you claimed is stronger ?

Dabura is less skilled, but stronger.
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Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:58 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:56 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:50 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:46 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:28 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:25 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 11 2015, 08:18 PM
Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:14 PM
Chapter: 459 (DBZ 265), P2.2-3
Badidi: “How about it, Dabra? Just to be sure, do you have confidence that you can defeat that Earthling [Gohan]?”
Dabra: “Naturally. I fought him a little bit before, after all. There’s no doubt that I can take care of trash like that.”

If this doesn't mean that Dabura is stronger than Gohan, Then I don't know what it would mean.

@Nagito Komaeda:
Gohan did actually take some damage.
What's Dabura going to say? ''Sorry, Master Babidi, I'm not strong enough to take him out.''?

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Goku specifies stamina, not ki.
But he didn't.

About the quote you gave us, Gohan at his best IS stronger than Dabura.SSJ1 Gohan isn't.

Come on, Goku LITERALLY stated that Dabura is as strong, if not stronger than Cell.
Either one is stronger than Gohan.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”

Vegeta states that Gohan is pathetic and should have been able to defeat dabura.

Let me ask you this:
If Gohan was stronger, why didn't he kill dabura ?
Simple answer, He's weaker than Him.
He didn't beat Dabura right away because Dabura was focusing on using tricks and magic to fight. Notice how Dabura uses his stone spit against Gohan. If he was suppressing, why would he use a technique that would rob Babidi of an energy source? Not exactly the MO of a superior fighter, is it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Babidi comment on Dabura's poor performance, saying that he needs to cause more damage? Even Dabura's magic attack, which hit Gohan head-on, hardly did anything. Gohan just flies back up and rips off his torn gi.
He used the technique so he can Immobilize Gohan to rake out Gohan's energy sending him to Buu.

It's easy to damage an immobilized opponent.

Babidi's quote just proves my point further, Because he knows that Dabura is much more capable of this, hinting that he was suppressed against Gohan.

Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P2.5-6
Babidi: "Thr... 3,000 kiri...!! H-how does an Earthling have 3,000 kiri of energy...?!!
Dabra: “3,000 kiri…That’s strange…There shouldn’t be any human race like that.”

He's not even remotely shocked about Goku's power, after 7 YEARS of TRAINING.
He's just surprised.

Unless you have SSJ Gohan stronger than SSJ Goku.
You mean, immobilise him by turning him to stone? He can't hurt him when he's stone, otherwise he'd just die. The stone spit was a move made in desperation.

Yeah, and apparently (according to Daiz 7, iirc) you only need 300 kiri to destroy a planet or two. We know that Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga is capable of destroying a planet, so even if we low-ball it and say 300 kiri = 10,000, that would mean SSJ Goku is 100,000.
Who's to say he can't control parts who become stone and what's not ?


So Yakon has a Powerlevel of 26,000.Right.

Listen, Goku stated that Dabura is as strong as cell.
You can choose either Full power Cell, or the cell that fought against Goku.
Both of them are stronger than Gohan.

That's pure conjecture. It isn't implied in the manga at all, so it's a humongous stretch to say that.

How unskilled do you think Dabura is then? He's got a power advantage against Gohan, yet he can barely damage him. His magic attack did nothing but tear his gi, and Babidi even chimes in and comments on Dabura not damaging Gohan enough, iirc.
If he was unskilled, why did he put up a fight against Gohan, who you claimed is stronger ?

Dabura is less skilled, but stronger.
He's unskilled because, if he's stronger, he absolutely fails to injure Gohan in any way. His surprise attack did nothing; no marks on Gohan at all. All it did was annoy Gohan and tear his gi. He even resorts to using a sword and his stone spit because his attacks just weren't doing anything.
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Notaka
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But there's the problem, that he put up a fight to gohan even though he's less skilled and less stronger because you claim it.

I won't deny that Dabura is less skilled, but he's definitely stronger than Gohan.
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Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 09:03 PM
But there's the problem, that he put up a fight to gohan even though he's less skilled and less stronger because you claim it.

I won't deny that Dabura is less skilled, but he's definitely stronger than Gohan.
He didn't put up a fight, though. He was relying on surprise attacks and magic. Even when doing that, he didn't manage to hurt Gohan at all. Bearing in mind this is a Gohan who's extremely rusty after not training for 7 years. The only reason Dabura was even staying in that fight is because he was keeping his distance and Gohan had a stamina problem, as Goku later stated.
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Dabra f***ed up a sword strike from the back, I don't give him confidence in skill or strength really. That entire fight was just him burning through his trick reportoire and failing to do anything
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Notaka
Oct 11 2015, 08:14 PM
Chapter: 459 (DBZ 265), P2.2-3
Badidi: “How about it, Dabra? Just to be sure, do you have confidence that you can defeat that Earthling [Gohan]?”
Dabra: “Naturally. I fought him a little bit before, after all. There’s no doubt that I can take care of trash like that.”

If this doesn't mean that Dabura is stronger than Gohan, Then I don't know what it would mean.
I don't see how that points to Dabura being suppressed, though. Could he beat Gohan if they fought again? Maybe, maybe not; we don't know because it didn't happen, but Dabura seems to think he could win a second bout. It has nothing to do with suppression.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Actually you would think Dabura would want to oneshot Gohan if he could. If damage equals energy to Boo, then the more damage you do the more energy is given. What sounds more like to do more damage?

Doing a few punches here and there and slowly whittling Gohan down, or blowing off half his freaking body and doing a single massive amount of damage. is it like a point system.

10 punches=10 Energy

1 Sword= 15 Energy

Bisection: 100 energy but game ends
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DEY DID DIS 2 ME
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By a lot of people's argument here, Dabra's skill is to fight someone who is supposedly more powerful and more skilled than he to fatigue while Dabra is fresh.
Edited by DEY DID DIS 2 ME, Oct 12 2015, 06:16 AM.
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Oct 12 2015, 06:15 AM
By a lot of people's argument here, Dabra's skill is to fight someone who is supposedly more powerful and more skilled than he to fatigue while Dabra is fresh.
No, his skill is to fight someone stronger than him who has pathetic stamina to fatigue.

How else can you explain Gohan literally being unfazed by Dabura's surprise attack?
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Nagito Komaeda
Oct 12 2015, 01:18 PM
Vold the Meme
Oct 12 2015, 06:15 AM
By a lot of people's argument here, Dabra's skill is to fight someone who is supposedly more powerful and more skilled than he to fatigue while Dabra is fresh.
No, his skill is to fight someone stronger than him who has pathetic stamina to fatigue.

How else can you explain Gohan literally being unfazed by Dabura's surprise attack?
I wouldn't say unfazed as Son Gohan is exhausted at the end of the fight while Dabra is unfazed by the fight. But why was that blast supposed to do anymore than it did?
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Vold the Meme
Oct 12 2015, 01:30 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 12 2015, 01:18 PM
Vold the Meme
Oct 12 2015, 06:15 AM
By a lot of people's argument here, Dabra's skill is to fight someone who is supposedly more powerful and more skilled than he to fatigue while Dabra is fresh.
No, his skill is to fight someone stronger than him who has pathetic stamina to fatigue.

How else can you explain Gohan literally being unfazed by Dabura's surprise attack?
I wouldn't say unfazed as Son Gohan is exhausted at the end of the fight while Dabra is unfazed by the fight. But why was that blast supposed to do anymore than it did?
The blast was meant to exhaust him? He was hit head-on, yet there's no indication that he's damaged whatsoever; he's just a little annoyed.
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Son Gohan, who had been worn down, would have lost, thus "damaged", after fighting a bit longer with Dabra, who was generally unfazed by fighting Son Gohan.

/thread
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Raiken
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At the end of the day:

If Teen Gohan can match Dabura in MSSJ, who is compared to Perfect Cell and also has Magic, in all likelyhood Gohan did not get weaker over the time skip in relation to Ki; but only in regards to skill/battle sense.

His SSJ2 was weaker at the Tounrament because he was tapping into his Hidden Power to a lessor extent when compared to when he fought Cell.
Edited by Raiken, Oct 12 2015, 02:18 PM.
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