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| Which version of Cell is Dabra equal to? | ||
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 7 2015, 10:39 PM (9,734 Views) | ||
| DEY DID DIS 2 ME | Oct 8 2015, 10:40 PM Post #61 | |
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MY FACE!
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I disagree. Freeza final form trols everything. Dabra didn't waste energy because Son was tired and he wasn't. And if Dabra would have raised power anymore he would have been more tired. |
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| EMIYA | Oct 9 2015, 04:15 AM Post #62 | |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Dabura's fight with Gohan is probably not that much different from SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza. Freeza/Gohan has the power to tango with Goku/Dabura but unfortunately just doesn't seem to have enough stamina to keep it up. |
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| DBZAOTA482 | Oct 9 2015, 04:21 AM Post #63 | |
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%50 Perfect Cell.... the one MSSJ Goku and MSSJ Gohan fought. | |
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| Notaka | Oct 9 2015, 09:32 AM Post #64 | |
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Always Wright
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He did witness Cell's full power though. |
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![]() "My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig! ![]() | ||
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| Raiken | Oct 9 2015, 12:54 PM Post #65 | |
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A lot of people assume that Gohan has to be SSJ2 because they beleive he got much weaker, or that Dabura must be must be as strong as Cell@Goku or was holding back a lot against MSSJ Teen Gohan. Yet in MSSJ, Teen Gohan is matching Dabura who was compared to Perfect Cell. If Teen Gohan is weaker than Kid Gohan in relation to Ki, and since Cell@Gohan => MSSJ Kid Gohan => Cell@Goku. And if Teen Gohan was holding his own and appeared to have a slight physical advantage in CQC against Dabura. It does not make sense for Teen Gohan to be weaker than Kid Gohan, at most he perhaps got a tiny bit weaker. Really all that implies is that Gohan didn't really get weaker, but Vegeta was only frustrated in relation to Gohan's skill and battle sense. You might then argue that Vegeta said at the Tournament Gohan got weaker since he killed Cell. Vegeta's statement at the World Tournament can just be attributed solely to Gohan's SSJ2 state being weaker, not his Base, which MSSJ scales with. His SSJ2 being weaker was likely because he wasn't using as much of his Hidden Power as he did against Cell. SSJ2 Kid Gohan > SSJ2 Teen Gohan => FP Cell => Dabura w/ Magic => Dabura = Cell@Gohan => MSSJ (Kid and Teen) Gohan => Cell@Goku = MSSJ Goku@Cell Also, Gohan went SSJ2 at will at the Tournament, so he had control over the transformation and shown that he could go SSJ2 when he wants to. Against Dabura he didn't even try to go SSJ2. But when he was about to face Dabura the second time in front of Majin Buu's egg, he actually tried to go SSJ2, but found he couldn't. So he went from being able to go SSJ2 at will when he wants, to not being able to. There's some explanations flying around about Gohan not being angry enough to transform. But he wasn't really angry against Kabito at all. Gohan probably assumed that he couldn't go SSJ2 because he wasn't angry enough maybe. But it's far more likely that the Energy Drain, somehow temporarily hampered his ability to access his Hidden Power and go SSJ2. Edited by Raiken, Oct 9 2015, 01:08 PM.
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| * Yu Narukami | Oct 9 2015, 05:22 PM Post #66 | |
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Izanagi!
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Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4 Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?” Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!” Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…” Kaioshin: “…No, even so this is magnificent energy, more so than I imagined…I wonder if I’ll be able to stop this power…” Goku: “…Stop it?” Vegeta claiming that Gohan was 'far better' in relation to skill wouldn't make sense, considering the context. Kaioshin was talking about Gohan's power, and Vegeta feels the need to get in on the conversation and berate Gohan for slacking off and losing so much strength. Also, if I recall correctly, Gohan comments about being back to full strength or, in fact, feeling even better than before once Kibito finished healing him. |
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| + Solid Snake | Oct 9 2015, 06:18 PM Post #67 | |
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滅Are you frightened?
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Dabura says he can beat Super Saiyan Gohan afterwards when Buu was soon to be released. Goku advises his son to get angry. That's all we need to conclude his power placement. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan > Full powered Perfect Cell > Full powered Dabura > Perfect Cell (@ Goku) =Dabura (w/magic) >= Super Saiyan Gohan = CGs Super Saiyan Goku > Dabura Boom. |
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![]() Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
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| Thiln | Oct 9 2015, 06:38 PM Post #68 | |
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In regards to the debate over the Kiri measurement and Dabura's reaction - if we assume that SSJ Goku was indeed suppressed then that opens the floodgates to a whole slew of other contentious questions like whether SSJ Gohan and Vegeta were suppressed when they appeared to be getting a workout in with their sibling/son. As for the Kiri measuring device itself... Spoiler: click to toggle That's the only panel of its exact measurements that we have, and it's supposedly the highest reading device Babidi has. Now I'm not sure on what the Japanese layout for numerical dials is like. I know their reading material is printed from right-to-left (they're also known for writing in a vertical fashion as well), but what about numbers? If it's from right-to-left then the dial does appear to be fluctuating towards the end of the device as if it's reading at its maximum capacity. However, if it's from left-to-right then the 3000 Kiri estimate is almost certifiably SSJ Goku's actual power level. |
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| + Kaboom | Oct 9 2015, 06:47 PM Post #69 | |
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Just "Cell," in general. If Perfect Cell's power covers a range of like 5-20 then Dabra can fall anywhere in-between that and be "probably about as strong as Cell." He could be a 5.6 or a 12 or a 14 or a 19.999, and the comparison would still be apt. He could even be a little bit weaker or stronger than Perfect Cell's minimum and maximum, and it'd still fit because no other past foe lines up with those power levels. Goku's just giving us a wide ballpark estimate, not anything specific. So it's on the reader to extrapolate beyond that. Since Goku and Vegeta both treated Dabra as such a non-threat, and he could barely stalemate a rusty SS1 Gohan, then I doubt Dabra's power is on-par with Cell at any of this higher levels, like his "Super" Perfect state. That's within SS2 levels of power, which would very much still be a challenge and a problem even for Goku or Vegeta. The Dragon Books say that Dabra is actually inferior to Gohan, so I guess Dabra's power is probably about as strong as Cell when he fought Goku. Edited by Kaboom, Oct 9 2015, 06:48 PM.
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| Omega Z | Oct 9 2015, 07:51 PM Post #70 | |
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Destroyer of Hopes and Dreams
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Physically, Dabra is weaker than a surpessed Perfect Cell, but when Dabra uses all of his magic I'd put him around equal to Perfect Cell. | |
![]() Japan, am I right fellas? Yes, yes I am. | ||
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| Raiken | Oct 9 2015, 08:50 PM Post #71 | |
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You clearly didn't' read my post right. I acknowledge Gohan being weaker as an SSJ2 at the Tournament, it's obvious that statement was in relation to Ki. But I believe the fact he was weaker at the Tourament compared to when he killed Cell was because of using his Hidden Power to a lessor extent at the Tournament. I was saying that Gohan was only weaker in relation to skill/battle sense against Dabura when he was fighting him as an MSSJ. I think Gohan's SSJ2 was weaker since Cell, but his Base/MSSJ was around as powerful as back then. Basically, in relation to Ki. SSJ2 Goku => SSJ2 Kid Gohan > SSJ2 Teen Gohan >> MSSJ Kid Gohan = MSSJ Teen Gohan Obviously MSSJ Kid Gohan would defeat MSSJ Teen Gohan in a fight, it would be very close, but Kid Gohan's honed skill/battle sense would win it for him. Edited by Raiken, Oct 9 2015, 08:59 PM.
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| * Yu Narukami | Oct 9 2015, 09:01 PM Post #72 | |
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Izanagi!
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Out of curiosity, do you think SSJ Pre-Majin Vegeta is stronger than SSJ Kid Gohan? Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2 Context: as Dabra fights Gohan Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?” Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…” Goku: “He really did slack off!” Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6 Context: as Gohan fights Dabra Vegeta: “Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!” Goku: “Don’t, Vegeta! Let [Gohan] do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing.” SSJ Vegeta (Pre-Majin) > SSJ Teen Gohan Vegeta isn't talking about max powers here, he's talking about the power that Gohan's putting out at the moment. He notes the difference between Gohan's hidden power (which he says could be stronger than him earlier on) and the power he's exhibiting at that moment. If Vegeta was factoring Gohan's hidden power into these statements, there would've been clarification. Instead, we're given a statement that SSJ Kid Gohan ? SSJ Vegeta (Pre-Majin) > SSJ Teen Gohan. |
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| Raiken | Oct 9 2015, 09:09 PM Post #73 | |
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When mentioning hidden power are you talking about the Dabra fight? Against Dabra there's no need to even bring up Hidden Power, because Gohan was just using bog standard MSSJ against Dabra. Well Vegeta has the skill to beat Dabra, but on top of that, I do have Pre-Majin MSSJ Vegeta a little stronger than MSSJ Kid Gohan. In regards to Ki: MSSJ Goku > MSSJ Pre-Majin Vegeta => MSSJ Teen & Kid Gohan Full Scaling: SSJ2 Goku = SSJ2 Majin-Vegeta => SSJ2 Kid Gohan => SSJ2 Pre-Majin Vegeta = Super Perfect Cell => SSJ2 Teen Gohan => MSSJ Goku = MSSJ Majin-Vegeta = FP Perfect Cell > MSSJ Pre-Majin Vegeta = Dabra = Perfect Cell@Gohan => MSSJ Kid & Teen Gohan => MSSJ Goku@Cell = Perfect Cell@Goku > SSJ Vegeta@Cell Edited by Raiken, Oct 9 2015, 09:24 PM.
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| + Majin Vegeta | Oct 10 2015, 10:45 AM Post #74 | |
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The resident GT fan!
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I think AT wanted Gohan to be a SSJ2 and intended for Dabura to be above Cell, but what he showed us proves otherwise. Adult SSJ Gohan is far below SSJ Pre Majin Vegeta who's below FPPC who can beat Dabura with ease. The manga gave us the following chain: FPPC > SSJ Goku Buu Arc > MSSJ Gohan CG > SSJ Pre Majin Vegeta > FP Dabura (with Magic) ~>Supressed Perfect Cell ~> SSJ Adult Gohan ~> Dabura (No Magic) Edited by Majin Vegeta, Oct 10 2015, 10:45 AM.
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![]() "Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta | ||
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| Zoom | Oct 11 2015, 05:22 AM Post #75 | |
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This is what confuses me, was Goku simply wrong about Dabura being stronger due to magic or was Toriyama confused? If we back up, Goku felt and was present when Perfect Cell showed his full powers when he faced SSj2 Gohan (kid).
Volume 19, pg. 15 Unless Gohan's SSj1 form didn't loose any power, only his SSj2 form was effected by his lack of rage, then I'm confuse because someone was wrong about Dabura or Gohan. Edited by Zoom, Oct 11 2015, 05:23 AM.
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