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Which version of Cell is Dabra equal to?
Topic Started: Oct 7 2015, 10:39 PM (9,735 Views)
Notaka
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Always Wright

FutureProtagonist
Oct 8 2015, 06:14 PM
He's nowhere near the same power as Cell, the comparison is totally erroneous.

How about "He would have been a tough opponent, but not as tough as Cell, and we beat that guy 7 years ago. He'll be no problem now." Same sentiment, way more accurate.

Is there any reasonable explanation for Gohan not being able to use SSJ2? Is there anything about this entire sequence that makes any kind of sense whatsoever? All I've got is two inexplicable retcons: Gohan now can't turn SSJ2 without getting angry and Dabra is now nowhere near Cell. A couple of sparks would have solved this entire issue.
Goku explicitly stated this:
Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4
Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…”

Later on the fight he says:
Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”


This should at least say:
Dabra >= Cell.


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FutureProtagonist
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I'm agreeing with you, though not about him being stronger than Cell. Magic was apparently what caused Goku to change his mind, but that shouldn't affect his battle power.

The "alternative quote" I offered has him saying that Dabra is weaker than Cell, in line with what occurred.
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Notaka
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Always Wright

So:

Dabra(With Magic) > Cell >= Dabra ?
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FutureProtagonist
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir

Sounds about right, if Gohan were SSJ2.
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* Yu Narukami
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SSJ Teen Gohan > Perfect Cell (@Goku) >= Dabura

If Dabura had the power advantage, it would've been a lot easier for him to deal damage. While Gohan's also out of breath at the end of their scuffle, that implies a stamina problem, not a power one. Unless Dabura was going against Babidi's orders, he would've been going all-out against Gohan, and the fact that he had to resort to magic attacks shows us that Gohan was too strong for Dabura to carry on fighting as he was.
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DEY DID DIS 2 ME
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It would not have taken much longer for Son to give in seeing as he needed a Senzu to continue fighting Dabra. In context, Dabra would have had to fight two more opponents of potentially greater power than Son Gohan. Conserve as much energy as possible.
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Dagon
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I often think Dabura is around Full-Power Perfect Cell or Buff Perfect Cell, but not Super Perfect.
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Izanagi!

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Oct 8 2015, 09:26 PM
It would not have taken much longer for Son to give in seeing as he needed a Senzu to continue fighting Dabra. In context, Dabra would have had to fight two more opponents of potentially greater power than Son Gohan. Conserve as much energy as possible.
Dabura hardly got any energy from Gohan, though. Even Babidi comments on how poorly Dabura was doing his job. Gohan was expending the energy himself, he was so rusty that even fighting was just exhausting for him. Aside from maybe one or two hits (which might have just been in the anime), did Dabura get any energy from him at all?

If he was fighting with the intention of conserving energy, that goes against the goal to get as much energy from the Saiyans as possible. What's the point of fighting all three and getting barely any energy?
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Nagito Komaeda
Oct 8 2015, 09:36 PM
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Oct 8 2015, 09:26 PM
It would not have taken much longer for Son to give in seeing as he needed a Senzu to continue fighting Dabra. In context, Dabra would have had to fight two more opponents of potentially greater power than Son Gohan. Conserve as much energy as possible.
Dabura hardly got any energy from Gohan, though. Even Babidi comments on how poorly Dabura was doing his job. Gohan was expending the energy himself, he was so rusty that even fighting was just exhausting for him. Aside from maybe one or two hits (which might have just been in the anime), did Dabura get any energy from him at all?

If he was fighting with the intention of conserving energy, that goes against the goal to get as much energy from the Saiyans as possible. What's the point of fighting all three and getting barely any energy?
I would assert that Dabra surviving takes precedence over even collecting energy; he was Babidi's strongest fighter who has to pit himself against three fighters whose power cannot be measured precisely.

Secondly, I'm certain that Dabra would have began to extract more energy from Son Gohan as time progress since (as stated) Son was losing wind to the point where he needed a Senzu to continue competing; also consider Son Goku advising Son Gohan to use his rage as opposed to simply fighting his hardest; does this imply that there is more to Dabra?
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Oct 8 2015, 09:51 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Oct 8 2015, 09:36 PM
Vold the Meme
Oct 8 2015, 09:26 PM
It would not have taken much longer for Son to give in seeing as he needed a Senzu to continue fighting Dabra. In context, Dabra would have had to fight two more opponents of potentially greater power than Son Gohan. Conserve as much energy as possible.
Dabura hardly got any energy from Gohan, though. Even Babidi comments on how poorly Dabura was doing his job. Gohan was expending the energy himself, he was so rusty that even fighting was just exhausting for him. Aside from maybe one or two hits (which might have just been in the anime), did Dabura get any energy from him at all?

If he was fighting with the intention of conserving energy, that goes against the goal to get as much energy from the Saiyans as possible. What's the point of fighting all three and getting barely any energy?
I would assert that Dabra surviving takes precedence over even collecting energy; he was Babidi's strongest fighter who has to pit himself against three fighters whose power cannot be measured precisely.

Secondly, I'm certain that Dabra would have began to extract more energy from Son Gohan as time progress since (as stated) Son was losing wind to the point where he needed a Senzu to continue competing; also consider Son Goku advising Son Gohan to use his rage as opposed to simply fighting his hardest; does this imply that there is more to Dabra?
If there was more, why wouldn't he show that power? Holding back to conserve power would work against him if he actually had the power to take out Gohan easily. If there was any kind of power advantage there, he would've been able to severely injure Gohan quite easily and, as a result, he would get his energy while not using much of his own. Instead, he fights Gohan to a standstill, wasting his own energy and not getting any of Gohan's. Why hold back to the point where you're equal with your opponent, especially when there are stronger enemies that you have to fight afterwards?
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Why was Dabra not tired? If Son Gohan was exhausted and would likely gain damage if the fight continued then was Dabra's energy wasted?

Cell did this exactly with Son Goku.
Edited by DEY DID DIS 2 ME, Oct 8 2015, 10:02 PM.
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Oct 8 2015, 10:01 PM
Why was Dabra not tired? If Son Gohan was exhausted and would likely gain damage if the fight continued then was Dabra's energy wasted?

Cell did this exactly with Son Goku.
Cell also stated that Goku had a chance of defeating him after taking a Senzu, so Cell obviously expended a lot of energy despite holding back.

Their goals were completely different too. Cell was holding back to have a good fight. Dabura was supposedly holding back to conserve energy, despite the fact that we've seen that he'd waste just as much energy holding back. Why not start the fight having an even bigger power advantage, to the point where it would be easy for him to get energy from Gohan? Holding back and letting Gohan wear himself out just seems like a complete waste of time.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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I've always accepted that Goku's statement about Dabra was comparing him to the version that he fought, considering that he never actually witnessed Super Cell's power himself.
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Son Goku's chance of defeating Cell even with the Senzu s slight.

You keep stating that Dabra would waste energy holding back, but the point of holding back is conserving energy. :'( I don't get it. Also, if Cell wasn't at max power then he's conserving energy by definition, despite of his intention for doing so.

Also consider that Dabra doesn't know how strong Son Gohan is let alone Son Goku and Vegeta.

Time isn't much of an issue considering Babidi's didn't account for running to incredibly strong fighters on earth to begin with. Worst case scenario, Babidi and Dabra would have just left the planet in search for more energy.

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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

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Oct 8 2015, 10:21 PM
Son Goku's chance of defeating Cell even with the Senzu s slight.

You keep stating that Dabra would waste energy holding back, but the point of holding back is conserving energy. :'( I don't get it. Also, if Cell wasn't at max power then he's conserving energy by definition, despite of his intention for doing so.

Also consider that Dabra doesn't know how strong Son Gohan is let alone Son Goku and Vegeta.

Time isn't much of an issue considering Babidi's didn't account for running to incredibly strong fighters on earth to begin with. Worst case scenario, Babidi and Dabra would have just left the planet in search for more energy.

Fighting at full blast for, say, half a minute, is going to end up being more efficient than fighting at a suppressed level for 5 minutes. If he's actually holding back, why doesn't he just increase his power enough to have a clear advantage over Gohan? Holding back and waiting for your opponent to get tired is woefully inefficient, just increase your power a tad and really lay the hurt on him. Instead, he seems happy enough holding back to the point where he's having trouble with his opponent.
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