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Which version of Cell is Dabra equal to?
Topic Started: Oct 7 2015, 10:39 PM (9,728 Views)
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There is no statement that Dabura is stronger than Gohan, just that Gohan isn't exactly in a winning position, and we see why.

The problem with bringing in Super Saiyan 2 is (if you're one to believe he was only a Super Saiyan), we know he has the form in his arsenal. It's not a guess like it is to say Dabura was holding back power.
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I can't say how much power Dabra i holding back based off of the fight (I use something else for that :) ), but holding back power is, at the very least, definitely a possibility for me. Why else is Dabra unfazed by fighting Son Gohan?

I won't be able to respond for a while...
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Notaka
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Pyrus
Oct 12 2015, 08:25 PM
There is no statement that Dabura is stronger than Gohan, just that Gohan isn't exactly in a winning position, and we see why.

The problem with bringing in Super Saiyan 2 is (if you're one to believe he was only a Super Saiyan), we know he has the form in his arsenal. It's not a guess like it is to say Dabura was holding back power.
No, but they are saying that Dabura holding back doesn't make sense.It may not mean much, but at least it's logical, since he is trying to damage gohan.and what's more easier to damage a tired opponent ?
it's a possibility.

What's not logical, is why Gohan wasn't SSJ2.
This fight from the very beginning didn't even make sense.
We can all theorize, it's better to say than that Gohan after 7 years of slacking is stronger than Cell.
Edited by Notaka, Oct 12 2015, 08:33 PM.
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Vold the Meme
Oct 12 2015, 08:32 PM
I can't say how much power Dabra i holding back based off of the fight (I use something else for that :) ), but holding back power is, at the very least, definitely a possibility for me. Why else is Dabra unfazed by fighting Son Gohan?

I won't be able to respond for a while...
Maybe because Gohan landed one punch (that we saw) and the rest was Dabura avoiding physical altercations with his magic? It's still no validation for suppression.
Notaka
Oct 12 2015, 08:32 PM
Pyrus
Oct 12 2015, 08:25 PM
There is no statement that Dabura is stronger than Gohan, just that Gohan isn't exactly in a winning position, and we see why.

The problem with bringing in Super Saiyan 2 is (if you're one to believe he was only a Super Saiyan), we know he has the form in his arsenal. It's not a guess like it is to say Dabura was holding back power.
No, but they are saying that Dabura holding back doesn't make sense.It may not mean much, but at least it's logical, since he is trying to damage gohan.and what's more easier to damage a tired opponent ?
it's a possibility.

What's not logical, is why Gohan wasn't SSJ2.
This fight from the very beginning didn't even make sense.
We can all theorize, it's better to say than that Gohan after 7 years of slacking is stronger than Cell.
It isn't very logical, but at least it's grounded in fact because we know that Gohan possesses that transformation. I'm not disagreeing with the notion that Dabura was wearing Gohan down, but purposely holding back power and not having a clear advantage is stupid.
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Dabra fought defensively and defeat Son Gohan. Good job, Dabs.
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Vold the Meme
Oct 12 2015, 09:09 PM
Dabra fought defensively and defeat Son Gohan. Good job, Dabs.
I just remembered who I'm dealing with. And here I thought you were just a random smug a*****. :toj:

Dabura did seem to be fighting more defensively with Gohan fighting offensively.
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I'm sorry I deceived you so, Pontes :'(

Edit: everyone, come back. I was winning like Dabs.
Edited by DEY DID DIS 2 ME, Oct 12 2015, 11:32 PM.
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If Cell was 1 when he fought Goku at a suppressed state, then Cell's full power is obviously > than 1. If SSj2 is twice as strong as SSj1, then Gohan was a 2 when he reached SSj2.

Cell at 1 is > SSj1 Goku at full power (CG).
Cell at full power is < SSj2 Gohan (kid).

Which leaves us with;

Cell at 1 <or> SSj1 Gohan (kid).
SSj1 Gohan (kid) > SSj1 Gohan (teen).

In my opinion, there can only be two versions of Cell Goku was referring to. 1. The one that he fought which suppressed or 2. full power, both which Goku was present. Goku's line about Dabura being stronger due to magic is what confuses me.
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Zeddicus
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I want to throw my hat in for just a second, because Dabura being stronger and/or suppressed doesn't make any sense to me, either.

Dabura's goal here isn't simply to "beat these guys up and win", it's to steal their energy by causing DIRECT damage. Meaning, waiting until Gohan used most of his up via stamina loss wouldn't do a thing toward reviving Majin Buu, correct? Otherwise, the fact that Dabura and Gohan were fighting at all would be just fine for Babidi.

Which brings me to another point against suppressed Dabura: some are saying that he was saving his energy for Goku and Vegeta, knowing that he would have to fight them after beating Gohan. But again, his goal is to revive Buu, and once that happens, his mission is done and Buu will take care of the rest, in theory. So if he was indeed stronger, why would he not have simply gone full power from the get-go (or at any point afterward), beat the tar out of Gohan and revive Buu, then sit back while Buu slaughters the rest?

My theory is that Gohan's fatigue is due to him not having as much control over his energy consumption, causing him to use up more than he needs to for his attacks. Not to mention wasting energy with attacks that fail altogether. (I make this distinction because I think I remember him landing a couple, unless that was just in the anime.)
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Notaka
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Zeddicus
Oct 14 2015, 02:18 PM
I want to throw my hat in for just a second, because Dabura being stronger and/or suppressed doesn't make any sense to me, either.

Dabura's goal here isn't simply to "beat these guys up and win", it's to steal their energy by causing DIRECT damage. Meaning, waiting until Gohan used most of his up via stamina loss wouldn't do a thing toward reviving Majin Buu, correct? Otherwise, the fact that Dabura and Gohan were fighting at all would be just fine for Babidi.

Which brings me to another point against suppressed Dabura: some are saying that he was saving his energy for Goku and Vegeta, knowing that he would have to fight them after beating Gohan. But again, his goal is to revive Buu, and once that happens, his mission is done and Buu will take care of the rest, in theory. So if he was indeed stronger, why would he not have simply gone full power from the get-go (or at any point afterward), beat the tar out of Gohan and revive Buu, then sit back while Buu slaughters the rest?

My theory is that Gohan's fatigue is due to him not having as much control over his energy consumption, causing him to use up more than he needs to for his attacks. Not to mention wasting energy with attacks that fail altogether. (I make this distinction because I think I remember him landing a couple, unless that was just in the anime.)
If dabura being stronger or suppressed doesn't make any sense to you, then what sense would Gohan not going SSJ2 from the beginning of the fight make to you ?
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I'm not even going to try to make sense out of that one, the logic just doesn't add up. Gohan's weaker now than he was as a kid, that much is pretty clearly laid out. So if Goku is comparing Dabura's power to Cell's, it would stand to reason that Gohan as an SSJ should get thoroughly stomped, but that doesn't happen. In fact, Dabura causes next to no damage to him at all. So either Gohan is an SSJ2 in disguise, or Dabura's suppressing his power.

But at the risk of beating this poor, dead horse, neither of those make much sense in context. We just saw Gohan as an SSJ2 a few episodes/chapters ago, and that's not what he looks like now. On the other hand, given Dabura's objective and its importance to Babidi, it doesn't make sense for him to suppress his power for any reason. You could argue that perhaps he underestimated Gohan at the start of the battle, but beyond that, I'm at a loss.

So while I feel that my argument against Suppressed Dabura is at least fairly sound, I don't have much to offer in the SSJ vs SSJ2 debate. Seems like that's just one of those inconsistencies that'll never truly be resolved.

As an aside, I also agree with Kaboom (and whoever else said it) that Goku's comparison with Dabura and Cell is not using a specific version of pre-Zenkai Cell, but rather that Dabura falls within the range of power he used in general.
Edited by Zeddicus, Oct 14 2015, 04:34 PM.
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Notaka
Oct 14 2015, 03:06 PM
Zeddicus
Oct 14 2015, 02:18 PM
I want to throw my hat in for just a second, because Dabura being stronger and/or suppressed doesn't make any sense to me, either.

Dabura's goal here isn't simply to "beat these guys up and win", it's to steal their energy by causing DIRECT damage. Meaning, waiting until Gohan used most of his up via stamina loss wouldn't do a thing toward reviving Majin Buu, correct? Otherwise, the fact that Dabura and Gohan were fighting at all would be just fine for Babidi.

Which brings me to another point against suppressed Dabura: some are saying that he was saving his energy for Goku and Vegeta, knowing that he would have to fight them after beating Gohan. But again, his goal is to revive Buu, and once that happens, his mission is done and Buu will take care of the rest, in theory. So if he was indeed stronger, why would he not have simply gone full power from the get-go (or at any point afterward), beat the tar out of Gohan and revive Buu, then sit back while Buu slaughters the rest?

My theory is that Gohan's fatigue is due to him not having as much control over his energy consumption, causing him to use up more than he needs to for his attacks. Not to mention wasting energy with attacks that fail altogether. (I make this distinction because I think I remember him landing a couple, unless that was just in the anime.)
If dabura being stronger or suppressed doesn't make any sense to you, then what sense would Gohan not going SSJ2 from the beginning of the fight make to you ?
Does it matter? Dabura's suppression is an illogical assumption. Gohan's reluctance to use a form we know he has is stupid, but at least it's not an assumption on our part.
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Yes it matters, because you're saying that it's illogical, even though the fight from its very beginning wasn't even logical.

You're just going to throw Goku's and Dabura's statements like this ?
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I'm not throwing out anything? I'm not the one guessing. My position's pretty solid here from an objective and subjective standpoint.
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Son caused next to no damage against Dabra.
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