- Dragon Ball Z Forum
- →
- Dragon Ball
- →
- Dragon Ball/Z Discussion
- →
- Was Gohan a SSj1 or SSj2?
| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
| Was Gohan a SSj1 or SSj2?; Artwork or dialogue? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 2 2015, 09:35 AM (802 Views) | |
| Zoom | Oct 2 2015, 09:35 AM Post #1 |
 
|
To sum things up, artwork suggests Gohan was SSj1 when he fought against Dabura, but most of the dialogue suggests Dabura is at SSj2 level, the same guide that said Trunks and Goten was around 18's level supports this. So which takes precedence artwork or dialogue? I have one question though, if people say the dialogue also supports Gohan as being a SSj1, then why would Goku compare Cell to Dabura and later correct himself and say Dabura should be stronger due to magic? Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…” Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?” Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…” Goku: “He really did slack off!” What I mean by this is in the Cell arc, SSj1 Gohan (kid) was consider stronger than his SSj1 teen self. Gohan as a kid was doing pretty well against a suppressed Perfect Cell. So, if his kid self was stronger, wouldn't Dabura easily over power Teen Gohan? But Gohan was shown to break Dabura's sword and survived his ki blast quite easily.  Anyway, i've been on the fence for both sides and I realize something, no matter which you take, both sides have inconsistencies that need explaining. So this is why I've changed to Gohan being a SSj1 due to fact that at least Akira Toriyama's artwork has stayed consistent throughout the Buu arc.     Edited by Zoom, Oct 2 2015, 09:40 AM.
|
 |
 
|
| Notaka | Oct 2 2015, 10:04 AM Post #2 |
Always Wright
|
This is definitely an inconsistency. The manga proves that Gohan was indeed Super Saiyan against Dabra, but the dialogues prove otherwise: Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4 Context: after Kaioshin again warns against unleashing Boo Vegeta: "Hmph...The way things are going, this 'Majin Boo' guy isn't going to be anything special, is he? Just like that 'Dabra' jerk...[ ] I'm saying that this "Dabra" guy doesn't seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can't call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that..." Kaioshin: "...Is-is that true, Son Goku?..." Goku: "Yeah...Well, even if that wasn't him at full force...I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but...7 years ago there was a guy called 'Cell'...[Dabra]'s probably about as strong as him..." Goku compares Dabra to Cell, saying that they are roughly equal.But Goku is unsure hence "Dabra's Probably as strong as him..." Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2 Context: as Dabra fights Gohan Goku: "Magic, huh? [Dabra]'s way stronger than I thought, ain't he?" Vegeta: "Hmph...Even so, he's not an opponent [he? we?] can't win against. [Gohan]'s so pathetic...So much so that he was stronger as a brat..." Goku: "He really did slack off!" Goku changes his opinion and says that Dabra's is stronger than Cell because of his magic. There are more arguments in favor of Gohan being SSJ2 than against him. But this is Toriyama at his Prime, so I can't doubt him. Here what I think: Gohan was SSJ1 against Dabra. Dabra is stronger than Full Power Perfect Cell, but was suppressed against Gohan. Goku was able to sense his full power, and then made a conclusion on Dabra's true strength. |
 "My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig!  | |
|
|
|
| Thiln | Oct 2 2015, 10:21 AM Post #3 |
|
I believe there's arguments to be made for both sides. My reasoning for usually siding with Gohan being SSJ is that Toriyama drew SSJ2 correctly not too many chapters ago. Even with his forgetful memory, I have a difficult time believing that he would ignore such important traits so quickly. Inversely, one piece of important information that I'm surprised no one has brought up concerning Dabura possibly being SSJ2 tier is the fact that he wasn't left utterly flabbergasted when discovering that SSJ Goku measured at 3000 Kiris. This is what his reaction was like... Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P2.5-6 Babidi: "Thr... 3,000 kiri...!! H-how does an Earthling have 3,000 kiri of energy...?!! Dabra: “3,000 kiri…That’s strange…There shouldn’t be any human race like that.” If I was just realising that this guy whom up until now I treated like garbage came out with power exceeding my own that could jeopardise the mission, I would be freaking out - not calmly remarking about its peculiarity, and we know for certain that Goku surpassed his son by this point. |
| |
|
|
|
| Billa | Oct 2 2015, 11:55 AM Post #4 |
Thala na Gethu!
|
I got this impression that Gohan was a "weaker" version of SSJ2 Toriyama's drawing was consistent till tail-end of Buu Arc (Potara Fusion onwards) So I dont find any reason why he'd mess-up with Gohan, that too Main Protagonist of the series Gohan got his energy stolen by Yamu & Spopovitch. Could that be the reason behind his lackluster SSJ2 form? Possible imo |
|
|
|
| * Ketchup Revenge | Oct 2 2015, 12:15 PM Post #5 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
|
I've simply assumed that Gohan was at level 1 because Dabra was stated to be more or less even with Cell, and Gohan is believed to be weaker than his Cell Games self (even though I believe they were more or less even as well). I doubt Goku was comparing Dabra to Super Cell because he didn't witness that power in person, and only what he felt when he was in the afterlife coaching Gohan. It seems to me that he was talking about Perfect Cell from the Cell Games when he fought him. However, there's also the possibility that Goku by the time of the Boo Arc had increased his power so much that he considers regular Perfect Cell and SSj2 Cell Games Gohan to be in the same area when it comes to power. When you break it down to specifics, they're on different tiers. For example, when we think about Saiyan Arc Power, we consider Goku and Vegeta to be practically even, even though when you look at the details, it becomes clear that Vegeta at that time was the strongest of the two. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Oct 2 2015, 12:20 PM.
|
 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
|
|
|
| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Oct 2 2015, 12:36 PM Post #6 |
魔王子
|
Toriyama's art is pretty consistent when it comes to Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2, so based on that, I'd have to say he's a Super Saiyan, but yeah, I think it would make more sense if he was a Super Saiyan 2 based on Goku's statements about Dabura being stronger than Cell.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Oct 3 2015, 11:36 AM.
|
 Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita | |
|
|
|
| FutureSaiyan | Oct 2 2015, 03:19 PM Post #7 |
|
in the english dub Vegeta does state that Dabura is "toying with him" so its highly possible that Dabura is a lot stronger than demonstrating against Gohan. |
| |
|
|
|
| Raiken | Oct 3 2015, 11:31 AM Post #8 |
|
There's also the possiblity that Gohan only got weaker in relation to skill and battle sense and not Ki, which would support the notion of him being SSJ1 a bit more. And Dabura still slightly holding back. I'd say Dabura was stronger than Supressed Perfect Cell @Gohan, but weaker than FP Perfect Cell, but was holding back to a Supressed Perfect Cell @Gohan level. So in relation to Ki: FP Perfect Cell => MSSJ Goku = MSSJ Majin Vegeta => Dabura FP => MSSJ Vegeta => Dabura Supressed = MSSJ Teen Gohan = MSSJ Kid Gohan => MSSJ CG Goku Edited by Raiken, Oct 3 2015, 11:31 AM.
|
|
|
|
| + Pointer | Oct 3 2015, 11:35 AM Post #9 |
...
|
he was ssj1 against dabura and ssj2 against broly in movie 10 |
| |
|
|
|
| FutureSaiyan | Oct 3 2015, 11:44 AM Post #10 |
|
It will never make sense, Gohan only moments ago at the world tournament demonstrates he can go ss2 at will, and then against a fierce opponent decides to basically use half is power. Why would Vegeta and Goku bad mouth him if he was only at half power? They wouldn't. |
|
| |
|
|
|
| + Pointer | Oct 3 2015, 11:50 AM Post #11 |
|
...
|
the only time he went ssj2 after the budokai was when he powered up against buu |
|
| |
|
|
|
| sekzee | Oct 3 2015, 02:27 PM Post #12 |
|
He is still drawn as a SSJ and not a SSJ2, so I don't understand how you notice the difference. |
|
|
|
| Raiken | Oct 3 2015, 05:48 PM Post #13 |
|
Teenager Gohan only went SSJ2 once, at the World Tournament, we never see him go SSJ2 again from that point on. He uses SSJ against Dabura, SSJ against Buu's Egg/Buu, SSJ to release the Z-Sword, trains with the Z-Sword in SSJ. Then he gets his Ultimate Form. |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
|
|
| « Previous Topic · Dragon Ball/Z Discussion · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
 4:43 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy