FutureProtagonist

Oct 1 2015, 05:56 PM

I think the real question is how is there North, South, East, and West in space?

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Oct 1 2015, 04:42 PM

Kyo

Oct 1 2015, 04:14 PM

Fine with the references inside the manga. I don't know Japanese so I wouldn't really have enough to counter. Still, it should be noted that Viz decided to translate as only 4 galaxies, and he is only coming to the possibility of more galaxies as an afterthought.

Even in the real world we meet random matter before entering another galaxy. Galaxies aren't joined together. You meet void space before entering another. And space that can be seen far beyond the galaxies is probably whatever else we see in AT's sketch.

The difference between the guidebook sketch and the anime zoom out is that one of them is intended to be seen as a map and other is meant to be real representation. Maps can often not be drawn to scale (but in terms of relative objects to each other, they are; see world maps, among others), but the anime filler one is clearly a zoom out of the world rather than just a map.

Viz just refers to the areas as the North, South, etc. I don't recall a point in the manga where they are referred to as a galaxy.

I'm aware of that. My point is if the universe is only comprised of 4 galaxies, why would there material that exists outside these galaxies?

Uh, you'd have to prove that. I can't imagine Dai-Kaio's planet is that big in comparison to the lower realm. All that map is supposed to do is provide a layout, not a to-scale model of the universe. I mean, do you really want to argue that Snake Way is equal to the radius of the universe? Our solar system is way more than 1,000,000 kilometers in diameter...

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Oct 1 2015, 06:40 PM

FutureProtagonist

Oct 1 2015, 05:56 PM

I think the real question is how is there North, South, East, and West in space?

What do you mean?

Quote:

 

North, South, East, and West are Earth related directions that are determined by the planet’s magnetic field, but with no planet in space to guide them, how can scientists figure out directions beyond Earth’s atmosphere?

Kyo

Oct 1 2015, 11:15 PM

...Material exists outside galaxies in the real world too. Not everything is contained within a galaxy. Gurren Lagen has material outside of galaxies too, meaning it isn't an uncommon practice to have unconfined space between a galaxy.

Only the Daizenshuu one is a map. The one I linked is actually a representation of what it's supposed to look like in the DB world. You'd need to prove that the animation randomly goes to a map that doesn't have relative objects to scale against each other. Saying the anime filler picture isn't to scale is like saying that a picture of space isn't to scale.

Even if I was referring to the map you should be the one to prove that it isn't to scale. Most non-kiddy celestial maps are either somewhat to scale or labeled not to scale somewhere in the map.

Even other series have maps where locations are scaled against each other, to some extent at least.



Maybe they aren't exact but we know for sure if one of the two locations is larger than the other.

Also going off solely the Daizenshuu map we know that even if the objects aren't relative to each other at they very least Snake Way should be larger than any of the 4 galaxies or quadrants. So yes 1mil km universe is perfectly feasible. Physics or real world mechanics are hardly qualifiers to determine what works in fiction.

What FP is saying is that NSEW is only enough for 2d planes and shouldn't be used for 3d. You end up losing depth. I guess you can make it work if you ignore one of the attributes.

FutureProtagonist

 

Are you guys serious? Come on. Directions are only defined on Earth because of its magnetic field. No magnetic field, no north. No north, no other directions. Referring to things as "North" or "South" in space is complete gibberish.

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Oct 1 2015, 11:27 PM

Kyo

Oct 1 2015, 11:15 PM

...Material exists outside galaxies in the real world too. Not everything is contained within a galaxy. Gurren Lagen has material outside of galaxies too, meaning it isn't an uncommon practice to have unconfined space between a galaxy.

Only the Daizenshuu one is a map. The one I linked is actually a representation of what it's supposed to look like in the DB world. You'd need to prove that the animation randomly goes to a map that doesn't have relative objects to scale against each other. Saying the anime filler picture isn't to scale is like saying that a picture of space isn't to scale.

Even if I was referring to the map you should be the one to prove that it isn't to scale. Most non-kiddy celestial maps are either somewhat to scale or labeled not to scale somewhere in the map.

Even other series have maps where locations are scaled against each other, to some extent at least.



Maybe they aren't exact but we know for sure if one of the two locations is larger than the other.

Also going off solely the Daizenshuu map we know that even if the objects aren't relative to each other at they very least Snake Way should be larger than any of the 4 galaxies or quadrants. So yes 1mil km universe is perfectly feasible. Physics or real world mechanics are hardly qualifiers to determine what works in fiction.

What FP is saying is that NSEW is only enough for 2d planes and shouldn't be used for 3d. You end up losing depth. I guess you can make it work if you ignore one of the attributes.

I know... I'm asking why material would exist outside a universe that is supposedly only comprised of 4 galaxies.

Both are representations, and they clearly aren't to scale. Really, you want to argue that the radius of the entire universe is only 1,000,000 kilometers long? You do realize Toriyama has gone on record stating the Moon is the same distance it is from the Earth in our world in Dragon Ball, right? The distances between celestial objects in our solar system most likely hasn't changed, and our solar system alone is over 9 billion kilometers in diameter. I'm sorry, but that is completely unreasonable.

The Earth is spherical, yet we use North, South, East, and West on our maps. If we can lay the Earth flat, we can lay the universe flat and divide into 4 quadrants for each direction.

Kyo

Oct 1 2015, 11:33 PM

The universe doesn't only contain 4 galaxies though. It would appear that the 4 galaxies is less than half.

Both are representations. "Aren't to scale" <- unsupported, please prove it. The anime filler one is the same as taking a picture a picture of constellations. It's a representation but the celestial objects are relative to each other. We know when one is bigger than the other.

I'm aware of AT's interview with the moon, but that just seemed like a candid answer for the sake of having an answer. Also most likely prepped, considering I doubt he knows the distance from the Earth to the moon offhand.

The real world and you believing something as unreasonable doesn't make something unreasonable. I find the fact that Gero made Androids stronger than Freeza based on products found on Earth completely unreasonable but I'm not writing it off because I know it's just fiction.

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Oct 1 2015, 11:47 PM

Kyo

Oct 1 2015, 11:33 PM

The universe doesn't only contain 4 galaxies though. It would appear that the 4 galaxies is less than half.

Both are representations. "Aren't to scale" <- unsupported, please prove it. The anime filler one is the same as taking a picture a picture of constellations. It's a representation but the celestial objects are relative to each other. We know when one is bigger than the other.

I'm aware of AT's interview with the moon, but that just seemed like a candid answer for the sake of having an answer. Also most likely prepped, considering I doubt he knows the distance from the Earth to the moon offhand.

The real world and you believing something as unreasonable doesn't make something unreasonable. I find the fact that Gero made Androids stronger than Freeza based on products found on Earth completely unreasonable but I'm not writing it off because I know it's just fiction.

What?

I've already done so. It cannot be to scale if it depicts Snake Way as being half the size of the universe. Here's another example of why this cannot be the case, if the Nameless Namekian's ship can reach Jupiter in few seconds, yet reach Namek in 2 months, one can conclude, the universe's radius is not 1,000,000 kilometers long.

Even if there were the case, it wouldn't be refuted.

That's not why I believe it's unreasonable. It's unreasonable because the mere idea is refuted by the in-universe responses I gave.