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Should Politics be a compulsory lesson in Elementary School?
Topic Started: Sep 19 2015, 03:14 PM (1,496 Views)
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Voter apathy is a big problem and that's largely due to people not understanding the system and thinking that ''all politicians are the same.''



You can't blame them entirely, in a matter of time most of them are corrupt, and the few that ain't are either kicked to the side by the party because public image matters more to them then an honest approach. But overall, I agree with your premise that we need to educate.
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Samantha
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Nagito Komaeda
Sep 19 2015, 07:17 PM
Revy
Sep 19 2015, 06:45 PM
Definitely not, we hear enough about bulls*** politics when we are adults, let kids have their childhood, and at the end of the day learning about politics makes ZERO difference on how the country works, the normal person has no say / power in what happens.
They do have a say, actually. If everybody who could vote did vote, we'd have a completely different political landscape. Saying that voting makes no difference is circular. Nothing changes because people don't vote, and people don't vote because nothing changes. If the new generation actually understood the political system and atmosphere that they're living in, they're going to vote based on how policies effect them. Right now, the media is presenting parties as groups that fit into one of the political stereotypes; ''Republicans are for Freedom'' and ''Democrats are for Government.'' in America, for example. Many people vote based on those extremely broad assumptions; they don't have the time or the desire to actually look at the party's policies and manifestos come election time, so they either vote from ignorance or don't vote at all. Could you imagine how well independent candidates could do if they were actually known? Alas, they're 'wasted votes' because not enough people vote for them, as people are too used to the current system of Politics, without knowing that the system could easily accommodate a large number of independent politicians.

To put it in simple terms; a lot of people have power. A large group of people saying that they don't have power doesn't make any sense. If all the people who didn't vote due to their 'lack of power' actually voted, it would have a drastic impact on Politics as a whole.

Perhaps Elementary School would be too early. Secondary School would be good though, as they'd have a better chance at understanding the material and taking it seriously.

@Ginyu Neutral, more than anything. They need to provide historical information on elections in the past, information on how the voting system works and the policies of each party. Perhaps have class debates on the topic and let each of the students develop their own political views. As long as the teacher puts aside their own views and remains neutral on the topic, I don't see this being too difficult to do.


If you think voting makes a difference then... :errm: Yeah not even going to go there, just a little naive.

Also I am from the UK so we don't have the same parties / system, however I do fully know about the different parties, their politics etc and I stand by my initial statement that voting for one party or another changes absolutely nothing, I still vote for who I think would do the best but we will always have the same two parties getting in and out. I know in America you love your ''freedom to vote'' and that seems to excite you but, over here it is very different trust me.

Edited by Samantha, Sep 20 2015, 09:16 AM.

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Sep 20 2015, 09:15 AM
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Sep 19 2015, 07:17 PM
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Sep 19 2015, 06:45 PM
Definitely not, we hear enough about bulls*** politics when we are adults, let kids have their childhood, and at the end of the day learning about politics makes ZERO difference on how the country works, the normal person has no say / power in what happens.
They do have a say, actually. If everybody who could vote did vote, we'd have a completely different political landscape. Saying that voting makes no difference is circular. Nothing changes because people don't vote, and people don't vote because nothing changes. If the new generation actually understood the political system and atmosphere that they're living in, they're going to vote based on how policies effect them. Right now, the media is presenting parties as groups that fit into one of the political stereotypes; ''Republicans are for Freedom'' and ''Democrats are for Government.'' in America, for example. Many people vote based on those extremely broad assumptions; they don't have the time or the desire to actually look at the party's policies and manifestos come election time, so they either vote from ignorance or don't vote at all. Could you imagine how well independent candidates could do if they were actually known? Alas, they're 'wasted votes' because not enough people vote for them, as people are too used to the current system of Politics, without knowing that the system could easily accommodate a large number of independent politicians.

To put it in simple terms; a lot of people have power. A large group of people saying that they don't have power doesn't make any sense. If all the people who didn't vote due to their 'lack of power' actually voted, it would have a drastic impact on Politics as a whole.

Perhaps Elementary School would be too early. Secondary School would be good though, as they'd have a better chance at understanding the material and taking it seriously.

@Ginyu Neutral, more than anything. They need to provide historical information on elections in the past, information on how the voting system works and the policies of each party. Perhaps have class debates on the topic and let each of the students develop their own political views. As long as the teacher puts aside their own views and remains neutral on the topic, I don't see this being too difficult to do.


If you think voting makes a difference then... :errm: Yeah not even going to go there, just a little naive.

Also I am from the UK so we don't have the same parties / system, however I do fully know about the different parties, their politics etc and I stand by my initial statement that voting for one party or another changes absolutely nothing, I still vote for who I think would do the best but we will always have the same two parties getting in and out. I know in America you love your ''freedom to vote'' and that seems to excite you but, over here it is very different trust me.

Could you please provide an argument instead of just calling someone naive?
Sure, the vote of 1 person individually doesn't matter, so what do people like you often do? Don't vote, your one vote doesn't matter anyway right?
The problem is that there are millions of people thinking like you in the world, and their voices go completely unheard.
You alone can't change anything, of course you couldn't, if you could then so could everybody else and the world would turn into chaos, but a large quantity of people is capable of large changes, in groups you can accomplish something.
You just feel like you're not doing anything because you just think about your own one vote.
It's the same thing with charities: "Oh, my few dollars won't matter, might as well give nothing." You're not looking at the bigger picture.
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Samantha
Sep 20 2015, 09:15 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 19 2015, 07:17 PM
Revy
Sep 19 2015, 06:45 PM
Definitely not, we hear enough about bulls*** politics when we are adults, let kids have their childhood, and at the end of the day learning about politics makes ZERO difference on how the country works, the normal person has no say / power in what happens.
They do have a say, actually. If everybody who could vote did vote, we'd have a completely different political landscape. Saying that voting makes no difference is circular. Nothing changes because people don't vote, and people don't vote because nothing changes. If the new generation actually understood the political system and atmosphere that they're living in, they're going to vote based on how policies effect them. Right now, the media is presenting parties as groups that fit into one of the political stereotypes; ''Republicans are for Freedom'' and ''Democrats are for Government.'' in America, for example. Many people vote based on those extremely broad assumptions; they don't have the time or the desire to actually look at the party's policies and manifestos come election time, so they either vote from ignorance or don't vote at all. Could you imagine how well independent candidates could do if they were actually known? Alas, they're 'wasted votes' because not enough people vote for them, as people are too used to the current system of Politics, without knowing that the system could easily accommodate a large number of independent politicians.

To put it in simple terms; a lot of people have power. A large group of people saying that they don't have power doesn't make any sense. If all the people who didn't vote due to their 'lack of power' actually voted, it would have a drastic impact on Politics as a whole.

Perhaps Elementary School would be too early. Secondary School would be good though, as they'd have a better chance at understanding the material and taking it seriously.

@Ginyu Neutral, more than anything. They need to provide historical information on elections in the past, information on how the voting system works and the policies of each party. Perhaps have class debates on the topic and let each of the students develop their own political views. As long as the teacher puts aside their own views and remains neutral on the topic, I don't see this being too difficult to do.


If you think voting makes a difference then... :errm: Yeah not even going to go there, just a little naive.

Also I am from the UK so we don't have the same parties / system, however I do fully know about the different parties, their politics etc and I stand by my initial statement that voting for one party or another changes absolutely nothing, I still vote for who I think would do the best but we will always have the same two parties getting in and out. I know in America you love your ''freedom to vote'' and that seems to excite you but, over here it is very different trust me.

I'm from the UK, actually.

Again, that mentality. If everyone who thought that way actually voted for, say, the Liberal Democrats, the landscape would be completely different. Parties would change their policies in order to try and garner the support of the people who voted for the Lib Dems, thus having a massive effect on future Government policies. Instead, ''my vote doesn't mean anything so I'm just going to waste it'' is something that's alarmingly present in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32624405

66.1% turnout. The higher the turnout, the more Democratic the result is. People can't complain about what happens if they don't get up and vote; their inaction is what's making the political system seem so bleak. If turnout was 90% or higher in the next election, we'd be able to confidently say that the Government that results from it would be the one that the public wants. Millions of votes are wasted every election and that's a sad fact; we need a populace that's politically active. You can't tell me that the majority of people who don't vote in the UK are doing it as some sort of informed protest. The idea that over 30% of the voting populace are people who have taken a good look at each party's proposed policies, as well as the policies of each independent candidate in their constituency, and decided that none of them tackle the issues that effect them and therefore decide not to vote is preposterous.

Tell me, what harm would teaching Secondary School students about Politics do? If they all decide to protest and not vote, that's fine. At least they're informed and can reach their own conclusion by looking at the information provided by all candidates. An informed protest is infinitely better than an uninformed protest.

Even with that, the political landscape is changing for the better as we speak. We've got a Labour Leader who might actually bring Labour towards the left instead of keeping it in the middle like Blair did with New Labour. The Lib Dems committed political suicide, so Labour being left-wing is the only form of representation that left-wing individuals are going to get. It'll be extremely interesting and, with this momentous swing of the Labour party, there's no better time to start teaching students about Politics.
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Samantha
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Nagito Komaeda
Sep 20 2015, 01:05 PM
Samantha
Sep 20 2015, 09:15 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 19 2015, 07:17 PM
Revy
Sep 19 2015, 06:45 PM
Definitely not, we hear enough about bulls*** politics when we are adults, let kids have their childhood, and at the end of the day learning about politics makes ZERO difference on how the country works, the normal person has no say / power in what happens.
They do have a say, actually. If everybody who could vote did vote, we'd have a completely different political landscape. Saying that voting makes no difference is circular. Nothing changes because people don't vote, and people don't vote because nothing changes. If the new generation actually understood the political system and atmosphere that they're living in, they're going to vote based on how policies effect them. Right now, the media is presenting parties as groups that fit into one of the political stereotypes; ''Republicans are for Freedom'' and ''Democrats are for Government.'' in America, for example. Many people vote based on those extremely broad assumptions; they don't have the time or the desire to actually look at the party's policies and manifestos come election time, so they either vote from ignorance or don't vote at all. Could you imagine how well independent candidates could do if they were actually known? Alas, they're 'wasted votes' because not enough people vote for them, as people are too used to the current system of Politics, without knowing that the system could easily accommodate a large number of independent politicians.

To put it in simple terms; a lot of people have power. A large group of people saying that they don't have power doesn't make any sense. If all the people who didn't vote due to their 'lack of power' actually voted, it would have a drastic impact on Politics as a whole.

Perhaps Elementary School would be too early. Secondary School would be good though, as they'd have a better chance at understanding the material and taking it seriously.

@Ginyu Neutral, more than anything. They need to provide historical information on elections in the past, information on how the voting system works and the policies of each party. Perhaps have class debates on the topic and let each of the students develop their own political views. As long as the teacher puts aside their own views and remains neutral on the topic, I don't see this being too difficult to do.


If you think voting makes a difference then... :errm: Yeah not even going to go there, just a little naive.

Also I am from the UK so we don't have the same parties / system, however I do fully know about the different parties, their politics etc and I stand by my initial statement that voting for one party or another changes absolutely nothing, I still vote for who I think would do the best but we will always have the same two parties getting in and out. I know in America you love your ''freedom to vote'' and that seems to excite you but, over here it is very different trust me.

I'm from the UK, actually.

Again, that mentality. If everyone who thought that way actually voted for, say, the Liberal Democrats, the landscape would be completely different. Parties would change their policies in order to try and garner the support of the people who voted for the Lib Dems, thus having a massive effect on future Government policies. Instead, ''my vote doesn't mean anything so I'm just going to waste it'' is something that's alarmingly present in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32624405

66.1% turnout. The higher the turnout, the more Democratic the result is. People can't complain about what happens if they don't get up and vote; their inaction is what's making the political system seem so bleak. If turnout was 90% or higher in the next election, we'd be able to confidently say that the Government that results from it would be the one that the public wants. Millions of votes are wasted every election and that's a sad fact; we need a populace that's politically active. You can't tell me that the majority of people who don't vote in the UK are doing it as some sort of informed protest. The idea that over 30% of the voting populace are people who have taken a good look at each party's proposed policies, as well as the policies of each independent candidate in their constituency, and decided that none of them tackle the issues that effect them and therefore decide not to vote is preposterous.

Tell me, what harm would teaching Secondary School students about Politics do? If they all decide to protest and not vote, that's fine. At least they're informed and can reach their own conclusion by looking at the information provided by all candidates. An informed protest is infinitely better than an uninformed protest.

Even with that, the political landscape is changing for the better as we speak. We've got a Labour Leader who might actually bring Labour towards the left instead of keeping it in the middle like Blair did with New Labour. The Lib Dems committed political suicide, so Labour being left-wing is the only form of representation that left-wing individuals are going to get. It'll be extremely interesting and, with this momentous swing of the Labour party, there's no better time to start teaching students about Politics.
Again, your free to believe what you want, it's just my opinion and quite a shared opinion that it doesn't make a difference who is in power. I've repeatedly stated I know about politics and I do vote, also you said elementary school not secondary school, your argument seems to change with every post and you seem desperate to prove your point.

Not everyone cares nearly as much as you do about politics, fact. So you stick to your idealisms and I will stick to mine. Politics is defunct and kids / teenagers time should not be wasted learning about it in depth.

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1. A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.

2. Keyboard Warriors are generally identified by unneccessary rage in their written communications, and are regarded as 'losers' by other virtual identities on the internet.
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Samatha, you haven't given a single argument yet.
You just keep repeating that you disagree.
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Samantha
Sep 20 2015, 06:09 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 20 2015, 01:05 PM
Samantha
Sep 20 2015, 09:15 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 19 2015, 07:17 PM
Revy
Sep 19 2015, 06:45 PM
Definitely not, we hear enough about bulls*** politics when we are adults, let kids have their childhood, and at the end of the day learning about politics makes ZERO difference on how the country works, the normal person has no say / power in what happens.
They do have a say, actually. If everybody who could vote did vote, we'd have a completely different political landscape. Saying that voting makes no difference is circular. Nothing changes because people don't vote, and people don't vote because nothing changes. If the new generation actually understood the political system and atmosphere that they're living in, they're going to vote based on how policies effect them. Right now, the media is presenting parties as groups that fit into one of the political stereotypes; ''Republicans are for Freedom'' and ''Democrats are for Government.'' in America, for example. Many people vote based on those extremely broad assumptions; they don't have the time or the desire to actually look at the party's policies and manifestos come election time, so they either vote from ignorance or don't vote at all. Could you imagine how well independent candidates could do if they were actually known? Alas, they're 'wasted votes' because not enough people vote for them, as people are too used to the current system of Politics, without knowing that the system could easily accommodate a large number of independent politicians.

To put it in simple terms; a lot of people have power. A large group of people saying that they don't have power doesn't make any sense. If all the people who didn't vote due to their 'lack of power' actually voted, it would have a drastic impact on Politics as a whole.

Perhaps Elementary School would be too early. Secondary School would be good though, as they'd have a better chance at understanding the material and taking it seriously.

@Ginyu Neutral, more than anything. They need to provide historical information on elections in the past, information on how the voting system works and the policies of each party. Perhaps have class debates on the topic and let each of the students develop their own political views. As long as the teacher puts aside their own views and remains neutral on the topic, I don't see this being too difficult to do.


If you think voting makes a difference then... :errm: Yeah not even going to go there, just a little naive.

Also I am from the UK so we don't have the same parties / system, however I do fully know about the different parties, their politics etc and I stand by my initial statement that voting for one party or another changes absolutely nothing, I still vote for who I think would do the best but we will always have the same two parties getting in and out. I know in America you love your ''freedom to vote'' and that seems to excite you but, over here it is very different trust me.

I'm from the UK, actually.

Again, that mentality. If everyone who thought that way actually voted for, say, the Liberal Democrats, the landscape would be completely different. Parties would change their policies in order to try and garner the support of the people who voted for the Lib Dems, thus having a massive effect on future Government policies. Instead, ''my vote doesn't mean anything so I'm just going to waste it'' is something that's alarmingly present in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32624405

66.1% turnout. The higher the turnout, the more Democratic the result is. People can't complain about what happens if they don't get up and vote; their inaction is what's making the political system seem so bleak. If turnout was 90% or higher in the next election, we'd be able to confidently say that the Government that results from it would be the one that the public wants. Millions of votes are wasted every election and that's a sad fact; we need a populace that's politically active. You can't tell me that the majority of people who don't vote in the UK are doing it as some sort of informed protest. The idea that over 30% of the voting populace are people who have taken a good look at each party's proposed policies, as well as the policies of each independent candidate in their constituency, and decided that none of them tackle the issues that effect them and therefore decide not to vote is preposterous.

Tell me, what harm would teaching Secondary School students about Politics do? If they all decide to protest and not vote, that's fine. At least they're informed and can reach their own conclusion by looking at the information provided by all candidates. An informed protest is infinitely better than an uninformed protest.

Even with that, the political landscape is changing for the better as we speak. We've got a Labour Leader who might actually bring Labour towards the left instead of keeping it in the middle like Blair did with New Labour. The Lib Dems committed political suicide, so Labour being left-wing is the only form of representation that left-wing individuals are going to get. It'll be extremely interesting and, with this momentous swing of the Labour party, there's no better time to start teaching students about Politics.
Again, your free to believe what you want, it's just my opinion and quite a shared opinion that it doesn't make a difference who is in power. I've repeatedly stated I know about politics and I do vote, also you said elementary school not secondary school, your argument seems to change with every post and you seem desperate to prove your point.

Not everyone cares nearly as much as you do about politics, fact. So you stick to your idealisms and I will stick to mine. Politics is defunct and kids / teenagers time should not be wasted learning about it in depth.
If you read the thread, you'll see that I changed my opinion after a couple of people brought up the idea of Elementary school being too early. Feel free to call me desperate; it couldn't be further from the truth, but that doesn't matter.

Not a lot of people care about algebra, Chemistry, Biology and Physics, yet they're taught them because it's felt that it's necessary to have at least a basic understanding of them. Politics is just the same. In fact, it has a big impact on people's lives and is arguably more important than all the topics I just listed.

You know what's great about viewing our political system as a failure? If you're informed and know a lot about it, you can push for change. Proportional Representation, for example, is a great alternative system of voting. If I recall correctly, under the First Past the Post system we currently have, UKIP had over 5,000,000 votes (or close to it, anyway), yet they only got two seats. That's a failure on the system's part, but if people actually understood Politics and knew about the alternative methods of voting, we could actually have a discussion about it. Instead, people attribute the perceived failings as a result of 'Politics' in general, not as a result of, say, the voting system.

I don't understand why you don't think people should be informed. Are you saying that having young people who understand Politics is a bad thing? Even if you perceive it as useless, what's the harm? I've never used algebra in my life and the area of work I plan on entering doesn't use it, along with Chemistry and Physics, in the slightest. Would you advocate taking those lessons off the curriculum? If young people plan on becoming Politicians, they don't have a subject to help them until possibly College. Why do people who're interested in Science get that extra benefit when somebody's who's interested in Politics doesn't? Not exactly fair, is it?
Edited by Yu Narukami, Sep 20 2015, 06:22 PM.
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Samantha
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Keyboard Warriors, Everywhere.

Nagito Komaeda
Sep 20 2015, 06:20 PM
Samantha
Sep 20 2015, 06:09 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 20 2015, 01:05 PM
Samantha
Sep 20 2015, 09:15 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 19 2015, 07:17 PM
Revy
Sep 19 2015, 06:45 PM
Definitely not, we hear enough about bulls*** politics when we are adults, let kids have their childhood, and at the end of the day learning about politics makes ZERO difference on how the country works, the normal person has no say / power in what happens.
They do have a say, actually. If everybody who could vote did vote, we'd have a completely different political landscape. Saying that voting makes no difference is circular. Nothing changes because people don't vote, and people don't vote because nothing changes. If the new generation actually understood the political system and atmosphere that they're living in, they're going to vote based on how policies effect them. Right now, the media is presenting parties as groups that fit into one of the political stereotypes; ''Republicans are for Freedom'' and ''Democrats are for Government.'' in America, for example. Many people vote based on those extremely broad assumptions; they don't have the time or the desire to actually look at the party's policies and manifestos come election time, so they either vote from ignorance or don't vote at all. Could you imagine how well independent candidates could do if they were actually known? Alas, they're 'wasted votes' because not enough people vote for them, as people are too used to the current system of Politics, without knowing that the system could easily accommodate a large number of independent politicians.

To put it in simple terms; a lot of people have power. A large group of people saying that they don't have power doesn't make any sense. If all the people who didn't vote due to their 'lack of power' actually voted, it would have a drastic impact on Politics as a whole.

Perhaps Elementary School would be too early. Secondary School would be good though, as they'd have a better chance at understanding the material and taking it seriously.

@Ginyu Neutral, more than anything. They need to provide historical information on elections in the past, information on how the voting system works and the policies of each party. Perhaps have class debates on the topic and let each of the students develop their own political views. As long as the teacher puts aside their own views and remains neutral on the topic, I don't see this being too difficult to do.


If you think voting makes a difference then... :errm: Yeah not even going to go there, just a little naive.

Also I am from the UK so we don't have the same parties / system, however I do fully know about the different parties, their politics etc and I stand by my initial statement that voting for one party or another changes absolutely nothing, I still vote for who I think would do the best but we will always have the same two parties getting in and out. I know in America you love your ''freedom to vote'' and that seems to excite you but, over here it is very different trust me.

I'm from the UK, actually.

Again, that mentality. If everyone who thought that way actually voted for, say, the Liberal Democrats, the landscape would be completely different. Parties would change their policies in order to try and garner the support of the people who voted for the Lib Dems, thus having a massive effect on future Government policies. Instead, ''my vote doesn't mean anything so I'm just going to waste it'' is something that's alarmingly present in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32624405

66.1% turnout. The higher the turnout, the more Democratic the result is. People can't complain about what happens if they don't get up and vote; their inaction is what's making the political system seem so bleak. If turnout was 90% or higher in the next election, we'd be able to confidently say that the Government that results from it would be the one that the public wants. Millions of votes are wasted every election and that's a sad fact; we need a populace that's politically active. You can't tell me that the majority of people who don't vote in the UK are doing it as some sort of informed protest. The idea that over 30% of the voting populace are people who have taken a good look at each party's proposed policies, as well as the policies of each independent candidate in their constituency, and decided that none of them tackle the issues that effect them and therefore decide not to vote is preposterous.

Tell me, what harm would teaching Secondary School students about Politics do? If they all decide to protest and not vote, that's fine. At least they're informed and can reach their own conclusion by looking at the information provided by all candidates. An informed protest is infinitely better than an uninformed protest.

Even with that, the political landscape is changing for the better as we speak. We've got a Labour Leader who might actually bring Labour towards the left instead of keeping it in the middle like Blair did with New Labour. The Lib Dems committed political suicide, so Labour being left-wing is the only form of representation that left-wing individuals are going to get. It'll be extremely interesting and, with this momentous swing of the Labour party, there's no better time to start teaching students about Politics.
Again, your free to believe what you want, it's just my opinion and quite a shared opinion that it doesn't make a difference who is in power. I've repeatedly stated I know about politics and I do vote, also you said elementary school not secondary school, your argument seems to change with every post and you seem desperate to prove your point.

Not everyone cares nearly as much as you do about politics, fact. So you stick to your idealisms and I will stick to mine. Politics is defunct and kids / teenagers time should not be wasted learning about it in depth.
If you read the thread, you'll see that I changed my opinion after a couple of people brought up the idea of Elementary school being too early. Feel free to call me desperate; it couldn't be further from the truth, but that doesn't matter.

Not a lot of people care about algebra, Chemistry, Biology and Physics, yet they're taught them because it's felt that it's necessary to have at least a basic understanding of them. Politics is just the same. In fact, it has a big impact on people's lives and is arguably more important than all the topics I just listed.

You know what's great about viewing our political system as a failure? If you're informed and know a lot about it, you can push for change. Proportional Representation, for example, is a great alternative system of voting. If I recall correctly, under the First Past the Post system we currently have, UKIP had over 5,000,000 votes (or close to it, anyway), yet they only got two seats. That's a failure on the system's part, but if people actually understood Politics and knew about the alternative methods of voting, we could actually have a discussion about it. Instead, people attribute the perceived failings as a result of 'Politics' in general, not as a result of, say, the voting system.

I don't understand why you don't think people should be informed. Are you saying that having young people who understand Politics is a bad thing? Even if you perceive it as useless, what's the harm? I've never used algebra in my life and the area of work I plan on entering doesn't use it, along with Chemistry and Physics, in the slightest. Would you advocate taking those lessons off the curriculum? If young people plan on becoming Politicians, they don't have a subject to help them until possibly College. Why do people who're interested in Science get that extra benefit when somebody's who's interested in Politics doesn't? Not exactly fair, is it?
Jesus Christ, can you not just let people have their opinions? I have already said, your welcome to your beliefs etc, thats fine, you may be right or may be wrong, I just disagree with them, I have never understood why people need to write essays trying to convert someone to their way of thinking, don't make it in the discussion section if you don't want people with different view points.

I have literally nothing else to say on the matter than which I have already written, if you want to see it for the third time : Kids don't need the extra pressure of learning how the politics system work and very few would be interested in learning it, sure, make it a subject which people can already pick, oh wait, I forgot, it already is.

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Samantha
Sep 20 2015, 06:48 PM
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Definitely not, we hear enough about bulls*** politics when we are adults, let kids have their childhood, and at the end of the day learning about politics makes ZERO difference on how the country works, the normal person has no say / power in what happens.
They do have a say, actually. If everybody who could vote did vote, we'd have a completely different political landscape. Saying that voting makes no difference is circular. Nothing changes because people don't vote, and people don't vote because nothing changes. If the new generation actually understood the political system and atmosphere that they're living in, they're going to vote based on how policies effect them. Right now, the media is presenting parties as groups that fit into one of the political stereotypes; ''Republicans are for Freedom'' and ''Democrats are for Government.'' in America, for example. Many people vote based on those extremely broad assumptions; they don't have the time or the desire to actually look at the party's policies and manifestos come election time, so they either vote from ignorance or don't vote at all. Could you imagine how well independent candidates could do if they were actually known? Alas, they're 'wasted votes' because not enough people vote for them, as people are too used to the current system of Politics, without knowing that the system could easily accommodate a large number of independent politicians.

To put it in simple terms; a lot of people have power. A large group of people saying that they don't have power doesn't make any sense. If all the people who didn't vote due to their 'lack of power' actually voted, it would have a drastic impact on Politics as a whole.

Perhaps Elementary School would be too early. Secondary School would be good though, as they'd have a better chance at understanding the material and taking it seriously.

@Ginyu Neutral, more than anything. They need to provide historical information on elections in the past, information on how the voting system works and the policies of each party. Perhaps have class debates on the topic and let each of the students develop their own political views. As long as the teacher puts aside their own views and remains neutral on the topic, I don't see this being too difficult to do.


If you think voting makes a difference then... :errm: Yeah not even going to go there, just a little naive.

Also I am from the UK so we don't have the same parties / system, however I do fully know about the different parties, their politics etc and I stand by my initial statement that voting for one party or another changes absolutely nothing, I still vote for who I think would do the best but we will always have the same two parties getting in and out. I know in America you love your ''freedom to vote'' and that seems to excite you but, over here it is very different trust me.

I'm from the UK, actually.

Again, that mentality. If everyone who thought that way actually voted for, say, the Liberal Democrats, the landscape would be completely different. Parties would change their policies in order to try and garner the support of the people who voted for the Lib Dems, thus having a massive effect on future Government policies. Instead, ''my vote doesn't mean anything so I'm just going to waste it'' is something that's alarmingly present in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32624405

66.1% turnout. The higher the turnout, the more Democratic the result is. People can't complain about what happens if they don't get up and vote; their inaction is what's making the political system seem so bleak. If turnout was 90% or higher in the next election, we'd be able to confidently say that the Government that results from it would be the one that the public wants. Millions of votes are wasted every election and that's a sad fact; we need a populace that's politically active. You can't tell me that the majority of people who don't vote in the UK are doing it as some sort of informed protest. The idea that over 30% of the voting populace are people who have taken a good look at each party's proposed policies, as well as the policies of each independent candidate in their constituency, and decided that none of them tackle the issues that effect them and therefore decide not to vote is preposterous.

Tell me, what harm would teaching Secondary School students about Politics do? If they all decide to protest and not vote, that's fine. At least they're informed and can reach their own conclusion by looking at the information provided by all candidates. An informed protest is infinitely better than an uninformed protest.

Even with that, the political landscape is changing for the better as we speak. We've got a Labour Leader who might actually bring Labour towards the left instead of keeping it in the middle like Blair did with New Labour. The Lib Dems committed political suicide, so Labour being left-wing is the only form of representation that left-wing individuals are going to get. It'll be extremely interesting and, with this momentous swing of the Labour party, there's no better time to start teaching students about Politics.
Again, your free to believe what you want, it's just my opinion and quite a shared opinion that it doesn't make a difference who is in power. I've repeatedly stated I know about politics and I do vote, also you said elementary school not secondary school, your argument seems to change with every post and you seem desperate to prove your point.

Not everyone cares nearly as much as you do about politics, fact. So you stick to your idealisms and I will stick to mine. Politics is defunct and kids / teenagers time should not be wasted learning about it in depth.
If you read the thread, you'll see that I changed my opinion after a couple of people brought up the idea of Elementary school being too early. Feel free to call me desperate; it couldn't be further from the truth, but that doesn't matter.

Not a lot of people care about algebra, Chemistry, Biology and Physics, yet they're taught them because it's felt that it's necessary to have at least a basic understanding of them. Politics is just the same. In fact, it has a big impact on people's lives and is arguably more important than all the topics I just listed.

You know what's great about viewing our political system as a failure? If you're informed and know a lot about it, you can push for change. Proportional Representation, for example, is a great alternative system of voting. If I recall correctly, under the First Past the Post system we currently have, UKIP had over 5,000,000 votes (or close to it, anyway), yet they only got two seats. That's a failure on the system's part, but if people actually understood Politics and knew about the alternative methods of voting, we could actually have a discussion about it. Instead, people attribute the perceived failings as a result of 'Politics' in general, not as a result of, say, the voting system.

I don't understand why you don't think people should be informed. Are you saying that having young people who understand Politics is a bad thing? Even if you perceive it as useless, what's the harm? I've never used algebra in my life and the area of work I plan on entering doesn't use it, along with Chemistry and Physics, in the slightest. Would you advocate taking those lessons off the curriculum? If young people plan on becoming Politicians, they don't have a subject to help them until possibly College. Why do people who're interested in Science get that extra benefit when somebody's who's interested in Politics doesn't? Not exactly fair, is it?
Jesus Christ, can you not just let people have their opinions? I have already said, your welcome to your beliefs etc, thats fine, you may be right or may be wrong, I just disagree with them, I have never understood why people need to write essays trying to convert someone to their way of thinking, don't make it in the discussion section if you don't want people with different view points.

I have literally nothing else to say on the matter than which I have already written, if you want to see it for the third time : Kids don't need the extra pressure of learning how the politics system work and very few would be interested in learning it, sure, make it a subject which people can already pick, oh wait, I forgot, it already is.
Sure, you can choose, but depending on where you live, you might have to wait until College. If somebody doesn't want to go into a profession involving Politics, choosing the subject would be a waste for them, as it would hinder them and impact their ability to go into the profession that they want to. Politics being compulsory means that it doesn't take away from other subjects later on in College and students can have a base knowledge without committing to it in A-levels.

I'll stop now, though. Evidently, me countering your points and presenting my own was done for the sole purpose of converting you, not presenting my own opinion.
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Buuberries
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just going to add that, from experience and observation, the people who tend to say "voting makes no difference" tend to be the lowbrow and/or uneducated types.
¯\(°_o)/¯
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Mihawk
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Buuberries
Sep 20 2015, 09:35 PM
just going to add that, from experience and observation, the people who tend to say "voting makes no difference" tend to be the lowbrow and/or uneducated types.
Yup, pretty sure I read some stats on this somewhere. Just grabbed this from wikipedia:

Quote:
 
The most important socioeconomic factor affecting voter turnout is education. The more educated a person is, the more likely he or she is to vote, even controlling for other factors that are closely associated with education level, such as income and class.

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