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Monster X / Keizer Ghidorah VS Destoroyah
Topic Started: Sep 6 2015, 02:13 AM (1,637 Views)
Darker
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lazerbem
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Godzilla in FW was basically an anime ninja with beams that sent kaiju flying across cities and with enough strength to easily thrash anything in his way. Monster X was even with that same monster and Kaiser Ghidorah s***stomped him.

Destroyah is no doubt strong, but the Godzilla he fought was slow, unskilled, and not exactly the most acrobatic of fighters. His ability to break down from damage won't help him when Kaiser Ghidorah begins eating his life force, something that doesn't inflict physical damage to him. Destroyah also has no counter to the gravity beams, which will throw him around like a ragdoll.
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EMIYA
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It took Godzilla reaching the red point of his meltdown before his blasts even began to hurt Destoroyah and only once after he began going critical that he began doing damage enough that Destoroyah decided to high tail it out of there. Even that wasn't technically enough to stop Desoroyah and it took the combined powers of both Godzilla and the army using the one thing he's actually weak against to finally put him down.

The f***er is basically the Freeza of the Godzila verse. He just takes on the strongest s*** and for the most part, laughs it off. It may be arguable but Destoroyah may very well have one, if not these, strongest endurance out of all the Godzilla Kaiju's in the series. It also shows a huge and massive endurance not only to physical attacks, but to heat as well. While Meltdown Godzilla's blasts may not be as strong as say Final Wars Godzilla, the sheer amount of heat and energy produced, especially one that apparently will eventually melt into the Earth's core is unbelievable.

As for Monster X, without a doubt he has the great advantage in mobility. In fact, other than a select few, most Heisei Kaiju's are slow as s*** and make it up with being massive powerhouses. Destoroyah was quite literally beating the s*** out of Godzilla the first part of the round and was constantly tossing him around with the utmost ease.

The biggest problem for either of them is that, I'm not sure if they can even properly hurt Destoroyah, or at least not to the point where they can completely destroy him. For a guy who is supposed to be vastly weak against extreme temperatures, Destoroyah was actually tanking some of this stuff before. Throwing Destoroyah isn't going to do anything, he can easily. He'd just reform back together from any specific damage done to him.

if Kaiser Ghidorah tries to drain his energy, something that Desotoryah may also be able to do (Unsure, he grabs Godzilla with his tail, it starts glowing, I assume Wiki isn't lying to me) he takes the risk of having micro oxygen put inside of him. Does Ghidorah want to bite something that produced the same material as the Oxygen Destroyer. We won't even bring Ghidorah to the water where he's going to be straight up f***ed since that's exactly where Destoroyah can use said Oxygen Destoyer ability to its full effect.

But other than having Freeza level durability, another huge advantage Destoroyah has is his adaptability. He's constantly changing and evolving throughout the fights, getting stronger through each one. He can also constantly change throughout his forms, easily keeping an opponent on edge between his Final Form, Aggregate Forms and Flying Forms.

To be honest, neither Monster X nor Ghidorah want Destoroyah to get up int heir face. Dessy may not be as proficient in hand to hand combat, but he definitely has the strength behind it, having again said, been knocking Godzilla around easily with single hits. He also has the Horn Katan which is just another reason X nor Ghidorah want Dessy in their face.

And that's not even getting into things like his unused floral chest blast which is just more attacks on his part.

Destoroyah can fly while Monster X and seemingly Kaiser Ghidorah cannot which just gives Dessy more options at this point. He can split up and go underground, attacking Ghidorah or Monster X from beneath.

I really have to give it to Destoroyah in the end. While someone like Ghidorah could keep Dessy at bay, he most likely can't keep i up forever and for someone like Dessy, mere physical punishment isn't enough. It's like trying to physically beat up Hedorah, you aren't going to get anywhere and Ghidorah nor Monster X possess the extreme temperatures that Dessy is supposed to be weak against.

And while a sadistic dick, Destoroyah wasn't stupid. He knew if things got too rough he could make his escape, he was constantly adapting to his fights and there's really too much going against Monster X/Kaiser Ghidorah for him to truly take down the guy. Again, I'm not sure how much he can even hurt Destoroyah and even if he can, can he really pull it off. They pretty much had to evaporate Destoroyah for them to finally beat him.



Edited by EMIYA, Sep 6 2015, 04:08 AM.
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lazerbem
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It took Godzilla reaching the red point of his meltdown before his blasts even began to hurt Destoroyah and only once after he began going critical that he began doing damage enough that Destoroyah decided to high tail it out of there. Even that wasn't technically enough to stop Desoroyah and it took the combined powers of both Godzilla and the army using the one thing he's actually weak against to finally put him down

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Destroyah was bleeding everywhere from just two beams. These were also actually the weaker beams. The Super X3 crew mentioned how Godzilla's power flux was making his beams vary in power greatly. The ones that tore open Destroyah's chest and made him go poof were the weaker variant(you can tell by the color and shape)
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The f***er is basically the Freeza of the Godzila verse. He just takes on the strongest s*** and for the most part, laughs it off. It may be arguable but Destoroyah may very well have one, if not these, strongest endurance out of all the Godzilla Kaiju's in the series. It also shows a huge and massive endurance not only to physical attacks, but to heat as well. While Meltdown Godzilla's blasts may not be as strong as say Final Wars Godzilla, the sheer amount of heat and energy produced, especially one that apparently will eventually melt into the Earth's core is unbelievable

His chest was torn open by two beams that were weaker than the Spiral Ray(though stronger than the Blue Ray). He's really not the most uber kaiju
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As for Monster X, without a doubt he has the great advantage in mobility. In fact, other than a select few, most Heisei Kaiju's are slow as s*** and make it up with being massive powerhouses. Destoroyah was quite literally beating the s*** out of Godzilla the first part of the round and was constantly tossing him around with the utmost ease.

Their fight was just Destroyah pushing Godzilla to the ground and then choking him with his tail for a bit. This can be blamed on the fact that Heisei Godzilla is slow as balls but strong. X is both fast and strong, on the other hand. If Destroyah tries to get into a pushing contest with him, X can easily do a roundhouse kick or whatever other ninja thing he feels like doing. If it's Kaiser, a single kick sent Godzilla flying, he can throw Destroyah off of him with ease
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The biggest problem for either of them is that, I'm not sure if they can even properly hurt Destoroyah, or at least not to the point where they can completely destroy him. For a guy who is supposed to be vastly weak against extreme temperatures, Destoroyah was actually tanking some of this stuff before. Throwing Destoroyah isn't going to do anything, he can easily. He'd just reform back together from any specific damage done to him.

If by tanking, you mean spraying blood everywhere and having to reform, then yes, Destroyah did a bang up job at tanking the Red Beams. Even when they weren't hitting him directly, the Spiral Beams were making him freak out
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if Kaiser Ghidorah tries to drain his energy, something that Desotoryah may also be able to do (Unsure, he grabs Godzilla with his tail, it starts glowing, I assume Wiki isn't lying to me) he takes the risk of having micro oxygen put inside of him. Does Ghidorah want to bite something that produced the same material as the Oxygen Destroyer. We won't even bring Ghidorah to the water where he's going to be straight up f***ed since that's exactly where Destoroyah can use said Oxygen Destoyer ability to its full effect.

Why would absorbing life force introduce Micro-Oxygen into Kaiser? He wasn't turning radioactive from drinking Godzilla's life force. Destroyah's draining is nowhere near as good as Kaiser's
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But other than having Freeza level durability, another huge advantage Destoroyah has is his adaptability. He's constantly changing and evolving throughout the fights, getting stronger through each one. He can also constantly change throughout his forms, easily keeping an opponent on edge between his Final Form, Aggregate Forms and Flying Forms.

Aggregate and Flying are completely useless in this fight. They are too small to do anything and Kaiser can easily shoot them to bits. Destroyah's only good form against large monsters is his final.
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To be honest, neither Monster X nor Ghidorah want Destoroyah to get up int heir face. Dessy may not be as proficient in hand to hand combat, but he definitely has the strength behind it, having again said, been knocking Godzilla around easily with single hits. He also has the Horn Katan which is just another reason X nor Ghidorah want Dessy in their face.

Shoving Godzilla once and then coiling him is hardly an example of hand to hand prowess. His melee skill consists of shoving people and then wrapping them with his tail. This strategy does not work here because X is super fast and Kaiser is vastly bigger and stronger.

The Horn Katana is slow on startup and could be dodged by X. Kaiser can't dodge it, but he's tough enough to take a hit from it and proceed to restrain him with the gravity bolts. Furthermore, Destroyah only used it twice in a twenty six minute fight, he won't use it immediately and that will cost him since Kaiser Ghidorah and X both are relentless and go all out right from the start. Especially Kaiser, he would just psychically snare him and proceed to knock him senseless
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And that's not even getting into things like his unused floral chest blast which is just more attacks on his part.

That doesn't count in the least, it was a deleted scene. Even if he did have it, X and Kaiser have shown aptitude for beam struggles
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Destoroyah can fly while Monster X and seemingly Kaiser Ghidorah cannot which just gives Dessy more options at this point. He can split up and go underground, attacking Ghidorah or Monster X from beneath.

Except Destroyah never flies intelligently. He always flies low to the ground, making him easy to beam out of the air. The breaking up strategy is also worthless, since Destroyah needs time to evolve every single time. He can't just go microbe ----> final, he has to go aggregate again, which would result in being stomped to death
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I really have to give it to Destoroyah in the end. While someone like Ghidorah could keep Dessy at bay, he most likely can't keep i up forever and for someone like Dessy, mere physical punishment isn't enough. It's like trying to physically beat up Hedorah, you aren't going to get anywhere and Ghidorah nor Monster X possess the extreme temperatures that Dessy is supposed to be weak against.

Destroyah's ability to break down is based on how many microbes he has left. He can breed quickly, true, but it is possible to blast him enough times to where there aren't enough microbes left to rebuild his final form. Kaiser also has a great way to keep track of the microbes, the paralysis field he did with the gravity beams. This prevents Destroyah from being able to break down since he's basically paralyzed

Also, Destroyah needs energy to bring himself back after poofing. He'll have precious little energy when Kaiser drains him. I'm sure he could come back, but it would take him days to build up enough strength again
Edited by lazerbem, Sep 6 2015, 05:10 AM.
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Destroyah was bleeding everywhere from just two beams. These were also actually the weaker beams. The Super X3 crew mentioned how Godzilla's power flux was making his beams vary in power greatly. The ones that tore open Destroyah's chest and made him go poof were the weaker variant(you can tell by the color and shape)


When is this ever stated? It certainly isn't stated in the DUB, was this an original Japanese thing?

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His chest was torn open by two beams that were weaker than the Spiral Ray(though stronger than the Blue Ray). He's really not the most uber kaiju


And yet Destoroyah point blank took on a Fire Spiral Ray blast from before when the match first started and outright tanked it, a bit before he grabbed Godzilla and threw him. Where is stated that this is supposed to be weaker than the Fire Spiral Ray? If that blast itself couldn't even hurt Destoroyah, than it's kind of hard for the ones he used the next time to be weaker.

Not to mention, once he goes critical, his blasts are massively more powerful than anything he's used in the series before hand and Dessy still managed to survive those attacks.
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f by tanking, you mean spraying blood everywhere and having to reform, then yes, Destroyah did a bang up job at tanking the Red Beams. Even when they weren't hitting him directly, the Spiral Beams were making him freak out


Yes, he tanked it. He took on a blast that was at least as strong as the Fire Spiral Ray the first time and didn't even flinch. He took even stronger blasts afterwards and still kept fighting and managed to survive even when Godzilla was going critical.

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Why would absorbing life force introduce Micro-Oxygen into Kaiser? He wasn't turning radioactive from drinking Godzilla's life force. Destroyah's draining is nowhere near as good as Kaiser's


Destoroyah is perfectly capable of adapting and changing to fit to the situation. He can just as easily drain and inject micro oxygen into Ghidorah if he gets near him and can just as easily break away from Ghidorah if need be and attack him from another direction.

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Aggregate and Flying are completely useless in this fight. They are too small to do anything and Kaiser can easily shoot them to bits. Destroyah's only good form against large monsters is his final.


More options is still better than none.

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Shoving Godzilla once and then coiling him is hardly an example of hand to hand prowess. His melee skill consists of shoving people and then wrapping them with his tail. This strategy does not work here because X is super fast and Kaiser is vastly bigger and stronger.

The Horn Katana is slow on startup and could be dodged by X. Kaiser can't dodge it, but he's tough enough to take a hit from it and proceed to restrain him with the gravity bolts. Furthermore, Destroyah only used it twice in a twenty six minute fight, he won't use it immediately and that will cost him since Kaiser Ghidorah and X both are relentless and go all out right from the start. Especially Kaiser, he would just psychically snare him and proceed to knock him senseless


It shows that Dessy has a great amount of physical power on his part. Doing physical damage alone isn't going to stop Dessy so unless the Gravity Beams are packing some good amount of heat on their part, they aren't going to finish off Dessy. It takes a lot more than sheer physical attacks to defeat him.

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Except Destroyah never flies intelligently. He always flies low to the ground, making him easy to beam out of the air. The breaking up strategy is also worthless, since Destroyah needs time to evolve every single time. He can't just go microbe ----> final, he has to go aggregate again, which would result in being stomped to death


Worthless? Dessy was constantly breaking up and changing in the span of couple of seconds. When Junior first blasts the flying form down, Desotroyah literally transforms in a matter of around 10-15 seconds. When Godzilla first brings Final Form Destoroyah down, the guy in a short amount of time the guy changed back to his Aggregate form and nearly overpowered Godzilla through numbers. It's pretty clear that's very easy and quick for Dessy to adapt and change throughout the fight. That's actually one, if arguably not his greatest ability of all.

Destoroyah is just great at adapting to almost everything thrown at him, its probably second only to Mothra Leo's adaptability...and that's just hax at points there)

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Destroyah's ability to break down is based on how many microbes he has left. He can breed quickly, true, but it is possible to blast him enough times to where there aren't enough microbes left to rebuild his final form. Kaiser also has a great way to keep track of the microbes, the paralysis field he did with the gravity beams. This prevents Destroyah from being able to break down since he's basically paralyzed

Also, Destroyah needs energy to bring himself back after poofing. He'll have precious little energy when Kaiser drains him. I'm sure he could come back, but it would take him days to build up enough strength again


And Dessy has a lot of microbes. Implication has shown that Destoroyah is made up of millions or more of these microscopic organisms. The best thing that can be said here is that at the least, Dessy doesn't regeneration, just reformation. There was essentially no way Dessy could directly insert his micro-oxygen into Godzilla because of his extreme temperatures. Something that won't be a problem with Kaiser Ghidorah.

It's just one of many reasons why Ghidorah does want to get into a close range fight with Desotoroyah. The latter's physical strenght alone is already something to be wary off, but with Horn Katana, Micro-Oxygen, splitting into numbers and all that, he's asking for a death with. It's the same thing with Monster X, they want to keep Destoroyah at bay and keep him at a distance. Destoroyah has too many possible options at close range.

If destroying all the microbes (or at least a good portion of them) is needed to defeat Destoroyah, it's going to take...needless to say...more than a few blasts of gravity beams to ultimately tear him apart completely.


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lazerbem
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When is this ever stated? It certainly isn't stated in the DUB, was this an original Japanese thing?

Yes, in the subs. After Godzilla hits the Super X-3 with a blast, the plane barely moves and one of the pilots says
"We expected Godzilla's fire to be more powerful"
They don't say it's a part of the flux(that must have been some bad recall on my part), but the point is that the red ray that Godzilla is firing is actually weaker than the spiral beam. It may look similar, but it is not the same. The actual Spiral Beam of Meltdown Godzilla is the one he fires a couple of times that make Destroyah flee
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And yet Destoroyah point blank took on a Fire Spiral Ray blast from before when the match first started and outright tanked it, a bit before he grabbed Godzilla and threw him. Where is stated that this is supposed to be weaker than the Fire Spiral Ray? If that blast itself couldn't even hurt Destoroyah, than it's kind of hard for the ones he used the next time to be weaker.

Not to mention, once he goes critical, his blasts are massively more powerful than anything he's used in the series before hand and Dessy still managed to survive those attacks.

Destroyah's taking of the regular red beam is as follows
First shot, no damage
Second shot, still no damage
Third shot, Destroyah starts spraying blood everywhere
Fourth shot, Destroyah is vomiting up blood in hilarious amounts and was weak enough that a couple of slaps to the wounded area knocked him over

He only tanked two shots of the red beam before things went wrong for him. As for the Spiral Beam
First shot doesn't actually hit him and yet he screams in pain from the indirect explosion
Second shot tears off his face plate
Third and fourth shots hit him dead on and Destroyah starts wailing in agony before retreating

Destroyah was about to die, he was not taking the actual Spiral Blasts well. Admittedly, these Spiral Blasts were stronger than previous Spiral Blasts, but he wasn't tanking them at all
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Yes, he tanked it. He took on a blast that was at least as strong as the Fire Spiral Ray the first time and didn't even flinch. He took even stronger blasts afterwards and still kept fighting and managed to survive even when Godzilla was going critical.

What Destroyah tanked was a beam that was weaker than the Spiral Ray but stronger than the Blue Beam. Kind of like this
Meltdown Spiral Ray>Spiral Ray>Red Beam>Blue Beam
His tanking only lasted him two blasts before his chest was torn open and he had to break down and reform. He didn't keep fighting after the stronger blasts either, he just sat there screaming before trying to fly off
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Destoroyah is perfectly capable of adapting and changing to fit to the situation. He can just as easily drain and inject micro oxygen into Ghidorah if he gets near him and can just as easily break away from Ghidorah if need be and attack him from another direction.

Destroyah can't inject things if he's helpless when the draining begins. Kaiser curbstomps his targets before bringing them in for a life drain, even the beast that was GFW Godzilla was unable to even struggle a little bit.

As for poofing away, Destroyah never does that offensively. He always poofs defensively and when he does, his combat abilities suffer. The aggregate crew won't do a damn thing since Kaiser can just turn his heads around and snipe them off. And like I said, poofing takes energy, so it'll take him time to build that up again
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More options is still better than none.

He's got two useless options more like it. That's like saying packing a watergun will be an advantage in a gunfight because you have more options. The aggregate forms are far too small to do any damage and can be easily removed, and Kaiser's a good enough shot with his beams to shoot flying out of the air
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It shows that Dessy has a great amount of physical power on his part. Doing physical damage alone isn't going to stop Dessy so unless the Gravity Beams are packing some good amount of heat on their part, they aren't going to finish off Dessy. It takes a lot more than sheer physical attacks to defeat him.

He shoved Godzilla. He didn't throw him, he just kind of shoulder barged him and because Heisei Godzilla has terrible balance, he fell over. In any case, whatever strength he displayed doesn't really stack up to X's jumping skills and Kaiser's football punts, both better feats of strength.

Funny you mention that it takes more than physical attacks to defeat him. His first poofing against Godzilla was because Godzilla knocked him over. Granted, he had torn Destroyah's chest open, but still. When Destroyah poofs, it means that he wasn't going to win that engagement.
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Worthless? Dessy was constantly breaking up and changing in the span of couple of seconds. When Junior first blasts the flying form down, Desotroyah literally transforms in a matter of around 10-15 seconds. When Godzilla first brings Final Form Destoroyah down, the guy in a short amount of time the guy changed back to his Aggregate form and nearly overpowered Godzilla through numbers. It's pretty clear that's very easy and quick for Dessy to adapt and change throughout the fight. That's actually one, if arguably not his greatest ability of all.

Destoroyah is just great at adapting to almost everything thrown at him, its probably second only to Mothra Leo's adaptability...and that's just hax at points there)

He only breaks down when he's badly wounded. And when his aggregate form is destroyed, it takes him a long time to come back from that. If Destroyah could transform offensively, he would have used that ability more(like breaking down to dodge a beam and then poofing back together). But he can't. Whenever Destroyah is wounded, he has to retreat to a lesser form. The aggregates are pitiful and Kaiser can just snipe them off whilst X can slap them off of himself due to being more flexible than Godzilla
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And Dessy has a lot of microbes. Implication has shown that Destoroyah is made up of millions or more of these microscopic organisms. The best thing that can be said here is that at the least, Dessy doesn't regeneration, just reformation. There was essentially no way Dessy could directly insert his micro-oxygen into Godzilla because of his extreme temperatures. Something that won't be a problem with Kaiser Ghidorah.

It's just one of many reasons why Ghidorah does want to get into a close range fight with Desotoroyah. The latter's physical strenght alone is already something to be wary off, but with Horn Katana, Micro-Oxygen, splitting into numbers and all that, he's asking for a death with. It's the same thing with Monster X, they want to keep Destoroyah at bay and keep him at a distance. Destoroyah has too many possible options at close range.

If destroying all the microbes (or at least a good portion of them) is needed to defeat Destoroyah, it's going to take...needless to say...more than a few blasts of gravity beams to ultimately tear him apart completely.

Destroyah can't inject micro-oxygen if he's nursing a concussion from being dragged around the battle field. That is well within Kaiser's character as well, to beat them down badly with the gravity beams first. That's something Destroyah cannot handle for the simple fact that while he's in Kaiser's snare, he can't reform. He'll be taking permanent damage because he won't be able to break down after taking it. He could break down when Kaiser stops firing them, but to what end? Kaiser can just slap away the aggregates and repeat the gravity beam curbstomping in order to sap Destroyah's energy to the point where it would take him days to reform.

Also, you're really overhyping Destroyah's strength, the horn katana, and the micro-oxygen. He injected Micro-Oxygen into Junior, and Junior was pretty much alright. Junior's minimal regen is offset by Kaiser being a Hell of a lot bigger and draining Destroyah at the same time. Destroyah's strength, like I said, only shoved Godzilla. That was it, he has no other physical strength feats other than dragging Godzilla around, which would be really stupid against the quickthinking Kaiser and X. X, on the other hand, lifts up Godzilla by his wrists and Kaiser kicks Godzilla hard enough to send him flying. And the Horn Katana, that attack only left a slash in Godzilla's shoulder, I doubt it will do much more to Kaiser. Keep in mind that Godzilla's body was actually falling apart and he was still mostly fine after the horn katana.

Destroyah's breaking down takes up energy and his aggregates are worthless. So every time he's brought into Kaiser's jaws, he'll be losing tons of energy before breaking down. That is assuming he can even breakdown while his energy is being drained, Godzilla was incapable of firing his beam while being drained.
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The fact that Destoroyah can actually take on Godzila's critical blasts right to the body like that and get away with only that amount of damage to him is still a huge testament to his endurance. Even more so when Destoroyah is supposed to be weak against extreme temperatures to begin with. It shows a huge contrast in the endurance of say MechaGodzilla and SpaceGodzilla.

Just by standing in the same vicinity as Godzillla (post Rodan) MechaGodzilla was melting and a few quick blasts obliterated him. The exact same thing happened to Space Godzilla, he took a few short blasts and got disintegrated. Admittedly though SpaceGodzilla was weakened at this point.

Be honest, how many Kaiju's do you think would honestly take Critical Meltdown Godzilla's blast to the face and body several times and still have the energy to keep moving? Certainly none of them in the Heisei continuity (Debatable Armored Mothra) and maybe only a very select few from the Showa era. In fact, I'm not sure if anyone from the Showa era could take such blasts as well as Destoroyah did.

And what the blasts may lack in overall destructive abilities of say Final Wars Godzilla which was destroying meteors, it makes up with its absolutely intense level of temperature and heat. Which only again adds to the point of how well Destoroyah's endurance is. Not only is he surviving pretty destructive attacks but he's also surviving multiple attacks that he's naturally supposed to be extremely weak against.

Whether or not Destoroyah has the best endurance is one thing. To say he doesn't have good, or even very good endurance is out of this world.
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I recently watching Final Wars to get a good idea on Keizer Ghidorah's physical feats (Same for Monster but I'm focusing on the former here)

And his physical feats (without using his gravity beams aren't even that impressive) The most he does is lightly kick Godzilla and hold him up with his heads. Certainly not without merit but nothing Destoroyah couldn't do. One single blast of the Micro-Oxygen blast instantly felled Godzilla. One good swipe from Destoroyah completely put Godzilla into the ground. He was able to drag his body across the airport and swing him several meters away into a building with his tail alone.

I certainly don't want to deny Ghidorah's possibility of physical strength. He does have a 40 meter height and 20,000 weight advantage.

He was physically able to lift and kick around 55,000 ton FW Godzilla. Destoroyah was meanwhile casually tossing around the 60,000 ton Burning Godzilla. Not a big difference so perhaps not worth noting. To be perfectly honest, I don't see Destoroyah tossing Ghidorah's huge body around by any means nor do I see Ghidorah lifting Destoroyah up int he air or kicking him several meters away.

But if you wanted to go by physical feats, Destoroyah was physically tossing around a slightly heavier Godzilla with ease, much more than Ghidorah. Destoroyah just overall showed better physical feats on his part. Then again, considering physical fighting isn't Keizer Ghidorah's style, he'd keep keep to using his gravity beams.
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And on our thing with the gravity beams. You mentioned something about a paralysis beam that can keep track of the microbes and keep Destoroyah from breaking down. When did Ghidorah ever use a paralysis beam? It's something that seems likely he can do but I watched the battle, Keizer Ghidorah never used such a thing. He only used his gravity beams to hold him in place. I'm curious, where does this whole paralysis beam come from.

And while were at it, why would dragging Destoroyah around even do that much? He's made up of millions of organisms that can adapt and change according to the battle's scenario. That's pretty much what he's done throughout his entire fights. When the army was putting too much pressure on him, he evolved into the larger and flying form. When Junior managed to blast him out of the sky, he took on the larger land form again and then to his Final Form. When he was taking too much physical punishment from Burning Godzilla, he went into his his aggregate forms and overran him with numbers.

This is the same thing I'm talking about with Hedorah, in which physical beating isn't enough. Is Ghidorah just going to physically beat the microbes off until the vast majority are just like "screw it, you win man!" and give up?

I certainly think that Ghidorah's gravity beams can pack a great amount of destructive power. They were overpowering FW Godzilla's blast which was seemingly took out a meteor. A relatively small meteor but a meteor non the less. Add in FW Godzilla's force of blast and compare that to the stronger Gravity Beams and you have something that while certainly not as extreme in temperature as Burning Godzilla, certainly makes it up with its overall destructive force around it.
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Not including Destoroyah's ability to mimic the Oxygen Destroyer (Which requires specific aspects and I feel is worthless in such a debate here) I can gladly give Keizer Ghidorah the overall advantage in terms of pure destructive capabilities with his gravity beams. I don't think any of Destoroyah's attacks can match up to the same overall level of destructive power as Ghidorah's.

At the same time, as I've already pointed out, while maybe not massive, Destoroyah has shown the physical combat strength advantage but even arguably the endurance factor. For sake of things I'm not going to make it a large difference. But as I said before, Destoroyah surviving against both pretty destructive blasts from Critical Burning Godzilla and taking such high temperatures that he's supposed to be weak against is a pretty good testament to his body.

Both of them can absorb energy, give the advantage to Keizer Ghidorah overall here of course though.

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The biggest issue I have with Keizer Ghidorah is that his overall abilities are relatively limited. And by limited I mean the only thing he's ever done is his gravity beams and energy bite and when compared to say the Micro-Oxygen Beam and Destoroyah's own energy drain, I'll give Ghidorah the advantage there.

But when you add all of Destoroyah's capabilities, you have someone with a lot more options under his belt.

Destoroyah has even done hit and run tactics like when he blasted Godzilla from behind, grabbed him and threw him into a building.

It's kind of like a person with more skills and technique going up against someone who has the stronger, more destructive abilities.

Is Keizer Ghidorah's overall power advantage and destructive abilities enough to keep Desotroyah at bay and defeat him despite having less abilities? Does he have enough power to break through Destoroyah's defenses and do the damage that needs to be done? Likewise despite having weaker powers, is Destoroyah's power enough to still do the damage needed and does his larger arsenal of abilities help to stack the odds against his victory?

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The fact that Destoroyah can actually take on Godzila's critical blasts right to the body like that and get away with only that amount of damage to him is still a huge testament to his endurance. Even more so when Destoroyah is supposed to be weak against extreme temperatures to begin with. It shows a huge contrast in the endurance of say MechaGodzilla and SpaceGodzilla.

Just by standing in the same vicinity as Godzillla (post Rodan) MechaGodzilla was melting and a few quick blasts obliterated him. The exact same thing happened to Space Godzilla, he took a few short blasts and got disintegrated. Admittedly though SpaceGodzilla was weakened at this point.

Be honest, how many Kaiju's do you think would honestly take Critical Meltdown Godzilla's blast to the face and body several times and still have the energy to keep moving? Certainly none of them in the Heisei continuity (Debatable Armored Mothra) and maybe only a very select few from the Showa era. In fact, I'm not sure if anyone from the Showa era could take such blasts as well as Destoroyah did.

And what the blasts may lack in overall destructive abilities of say Final Wars Godzilla which was destroying meteors, it makes up with its absolutely intense level of temperature and heat. Which only again adds to the point of how well Destoroyah's endurance is. Not only is he surviving pretty destructive attacks but he's also surviving multiple attacks that he's naturally supposed to be extremely weak against.

Whether or not Destoroyah has the best endurance is one thing. To say he doesn't have good, or even very good endurance is out of this world.

Destroyah is not weak to heat per-se. He's weak to temperature changes, not the temperature itself. He can adapt to temperatures fine if it's slow, but if it's sudden, in any direction, not so much. Not really a huge distinction, but I felt the need to point that out. Also, a lot of the Spiral Blasts didn't really hit deadon. Some outright missed, others got glancing shots, and some strafed upward and only hit his legs at the end. He didn't really take that many headon before fleeing.

As for kaiju taking blasts, I am confident in Desghidorah taking it(his durability is simply beastly) and maybe Grand King Ghidorah could take a few shots with his shield.
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I recently watching Final Wars to get a good idea on Keizer Ghidorah's physical feats (Same for Monster but I'm focusing on the former here)

And his physical feats (without using his gravity beams aren't even that impressive) The most he does is lightly kick Godzilla and hold him up with his heads. Certainly not without merit but nothing Destoroyah couldn't do. One single blast of the Micro-Oxygen blast instantly felled Godzilla. One good swipe from Destoroyah completely put Godzilla into the ground. He was able to drag his body across the airport and swing him several meters away into a building with his tail alone.

I certainly don't want to deny Ghidorah's possibility of physical strength. He does have a 40 meter height and 20,000 weight advantage.

He was physically able to lift and kick around 55,000 ton FW Godzilla. Destoroyah was meanwhile casually tossing around the 60,000 ton Burning Godzilla. Not a big difference so perhaps not worth noting. To be perfectly honest, I don't see Destoroyah tossing Ghidorah's huge body around by any means nor do I see Ghidorah lifting Destoroyah up int he air or kicking him several meters away.

But if you wanted to go by physical feats, Destoroyah was physically tossing around a slightly heavier Godzilla with ease, much more than Ghidorah. Destoroyah just overall showed better physical feats on his part. Then again, considering physical fighting isn't Keizer Ghidorah's style, he'd keep keep to using his gravity beams.

That "light kick" sent Godzilla tumbling head over heels. That's better than anything Destroyah displayed.

Destroyah's shove wasn't exactly easy either. He and Godzilla had a little pushing contest before Destroyah shoved him hard enough to take him to the ground. Knocking over Heisei Godzilla isn't the best of feats, even rather weak attacks like Mecha King Ghidorah's gravity beams could do it

If you want to take the scaling route, then X's feats are already greater than Destroyah's simply by being capable of jumping 2.5x his height into the air and being able to lift up Godzilla by his wrists. Lifting someone is a better feat than pushing someone down.
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And on our thing with the gravity beams. You mentioned something about a paralysis beam that can keep track of the microbes and keep Destoroyah from breaking down. When did Ghidorah ever use a paralysis beam? It's something that seems likely he can do but I watched the battle, Keizer Ghidorah never used such a thing. He only used his gravity beams to hold him in place. I'm curious, where does this whole paralysis beam come from.

The Gravity Beams paralyze whilst you are in their snare. They held Godzilla still and Godzilla didn't fire his beam, so I always took it as a psychic bind.

The fact that Godzilla didn't even try firing his beam makes Destroyah being capable of breaking out of it semi-doubtful. They work on different principles, but we know that to some extent, Kaiser inhibits his prey
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And while were at it, why would dragging Destoroyah around even do that much? He's made up of millions of organisms that can adapt and change according to the battle's scenario. That's pretty much what he's done throughout his entire fights. When the army was putting too much pressure on him, he evolved into the larger and flying form. When Junior managed to blast him out of the sky, he took on the larger land form again and then to his Final Form. When he was taking too much physical punishment from Burning Godzilla, he went into his his aggregate forms and overran him with numbers.

Destroyah can take damage from physical beatings, case in point, one of his spikes being ripped off by Godzilla and being shoved to the ground resulted in him poofing.

The poofing is reflexive in nature. He never opens up a fight doing so, he only does it to defend himself. None of his forms but final are of any use against Kaiser or X, so he'll just use up even more energy if he turns into Aggregates against him
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This is the same thing I'm talking about with Hedorah, in which physical beating isn't enough. Is Ghidorah just going to physically beat the microbes off until the vast majority are just like "screw it, you win man!" and give up?

Funny you bring up Hedorah. When Godzilla poked out his eye, it didn't come back, IIRC

Kaiser just needs to hurt Destroyah to the point where he'd have to hibernate for a long time in order to build up his strength again.
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The biggest issue I have with Keizer Ghidorah is that his overall abilities are relatively limited. And by limited I mean the only thing he's ever done is his gravity beams and energy bite and when compared to say the Micro-Oxygen Beam and Destoroyah's own energy drain, I'll give Ghidorah the advantage there.

But when you add all of Destoroyah's capabilities, you have someone with a lot more options under his belt.

Destoroyah has even done hit and run tactics like when he blasted Godzilla from behind, grabbed him and threw him into a building.

It's kind of like a person with more skills and technique going up against someone who has the stronger, more destructive abilities.

Is Keizer Ghidorah's overall power advantage and destructive abilities enough to keep Desotroyah at bay and defeat him despite having less abilities? Does he have enough power to break through Destoroyah's defenses and do the damage that needs to be done? Likewise despite having weaker powers, is Destoroyah's power enough to still do the damage needed and does his larger arsenal of abilities help to stack the odds against his victory?

Destroyah doesn't fight smart though. He's a lot like a DBZ villain in the sense that he would land a dirty shot, but he also wants to laugh in your face about it.

In Destroyah's case, this translates to spending most of his time on the ground instead of flying. Destroyah is far too arrogant to use his abilities effectively, he mostly fires MO beams whilst shuffling up to them.

Kaiser's mental state is a far better one, as he uses his abilities to the best extent and is quick about it.
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The super x crew sub is not correct.

Toho showed Godzilla's default ray became the Spiral ray from the Hong Kong attack onward and the movie mentions Godzilla is making too much energy for his own body to store. It was stated several times he's a Super Monster now.

Destroyer is not weak to temperature changes he is weak to the Cold, period.

The ray they sent Destroyer running was an even stronger version of the Spiral ray.

Here's the big thing about this fight however, FW Godzilla while he was on par with Metldown Godzilla he was exhausted by the time Keizer Ghidorah appeared and while what Keizer did was impressive he did it to a tired Godzilla.

Destroyer went head to head with a overcharged Godzilla and was holding his own.

I'm giving this to Destroyer however, his beams and the Lazer horn are going to punish Keizer.
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The red beam is not the same as the Spiral Ray. It's too small and the color is wrong. Furthermore, do you honestly think that the Super X-3 could tank two Spiral Rays? Damn has G-FORCE's mechs gotten more competent if so.

I saw no indication of FW Godzilla being tired. As a matter of fact he had just gotten up from punching MX into the ground several times. FW Godzilla didn't looked tired at all. Besides, Meltdown Godzilla had his own problems, like his regeneration being nerfed(his wounds from the beam horn didn't heal). Destroyah only held his own when Godzilla didn't use his beam, any time Godzilla used his beam twice or more, Destroyah began flailing about helplessly as he gushed blood
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The red beam is not the same as the Spiral Ray. It's too small and the color is wrong. Furthermore, do you honestly think that the Super X-3 could tank two Spiral Rays? Damn has G-FORCE's mechs gotten more competent if so.

I saw no indication of FW Godzilla being tired. As a matter of fact he had just gotten up from punching MX into the ground several times. FW Godzilla didn't looked tired at all. Besides, Meltdown Godzilla had his own problems, like his regeneration being nerfed(his wounds from the beam horn didn't heal). Destroyah only held his own when Godzilla didn't use his beam, any time Godzilla used his beam twice or more, Destroyah began flailing about helplessly as he gushed blood
Your blaming Toho's bad effects and plot armor now, G-Force had witness the Spiral ray 2 years in a row so them making a small ship that could survive it is not impossible also Godzilla roasted Hong Kong with the Spiral beam and was never stated to have gotten weaker.

Godzilla was trapped in ice 60 years then fought 10 monsters, swam across the entire world and finally battled MX and you can see him getting up off the ground slow after the huge explosion it was clear he was tired at that point.

Meltdown Godzilla's wounds did heal Destroyer bisected his arm and waist, the white stuff is just more or less dry blood. Destroyer was out matched the entire fight other than the time he knocked Godzilla over and dragged him around and got sneak/group attacks but it was enough to say he held his own.

Default Spiral Ray

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Destroyer buster

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Meltdown Godzilla was making enough energy to use the Spiral ray but when his body had finally got the point where it couldn't hold his power he used the Destroyer busting ray and was using nuclear pluses automatically.
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Your blaming Toho's bad effects and plot armor now, G-Force had witness the Spiral ray 2 years in a row so them making a small ship that could survive it is not impossible also Godzilla roasted Hong Kong with the Spiral beam and was never stated to have gotten weaker.

Effects do determine things though. Effects determine that SG has great regeneration because of a suit change(that wound from the drill was gone damn quickly) and that Baragon's ray is piss weak(it failed to burn trees).

I don't know what to say, the subs I'm seeing have the Super X-3 pilots commenting on how it's weaker than they expected.
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Godzilla was trapped in ice 60 years then fought 10 monsters, swam across the entire world and finally battled MX and you can see him getting up off the ground slow after the huge explosion it was clear he was tired at that point.

He got off the ground slowly as well after the first gravity beam barrage from X, but he certainly wasn't tired then as evident by the fact that the gravity beams X tried out later on didn't faze him as much
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Meltdown Godzilla's wounds did heal Destroyer bisected his arm and waist, the white stuff is just more or less dry blood. Destroyer was out matched the entire fight other than the time he knocked Godzilla over and dragged him around and got sneak/group attacks but it was enough to say he held his own

Nope, the slash was there the entire time. I think it was getting shallower, but it was definitely there for quite some time.

The ray does look different though. Slight differences, but it is definitely not the same as time goes on.
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with a name like Destoroyah how could he lose the battle so I think he'll do the winning on this one!
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Your blaming Toho's bad effects and plot armor now, G-Force had witness the Spiral ray 2 years in a row so them making a small ship that could survive it is not impossible also Godzilla roasted Hong Kong with the Spiral beam and was never stated to have gotten weaker.

Effects do determine things though. Effects determine that SG has great regeneration because of a suit change(that wound from the drill was gone damn quickly) and that Baragon's ray is piss weak(it failed to burn trees). I don't know what to say, the subs I'm seeing have the Super X-3 pilots commenting on how it's weaker than they expected.


Toho doesn't have real subs out only the bad ones Sony released. The same company that did the Dub said that the ray was stronger. I'd have to look more into the Sub vs Dun but I know that if the Destroyer is the internation dub Toho had produced and the subs are from sony then the Dub is correct in this case and it wouldn't be the first time Sony messed up Godzilla subs.

SpaceGodzilla has regen because he has G-Cells which were stated by Toho on on film to heal wounds. Also weather or not Baragon's ray is week is a moot point but he did use it to did around the Earth.

The Point being is that the ray was treated as the Spiral Ray the entire movie.

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Godzilla was trapped in ice 60 years then fought 10 monsters, swam across the entire world and finally battled MX and you can see him getting up off the ground slow after the huge explosion it was clear he was tired at that point.

He got off the ground slowly as well after the first gravity beam barrage from X, but he certainly wasn't tired then as evident by the fact that the gravity beams X tried out later on didn't faze him as much


Godzilla got up much quicker from MX's first gravity beams then the explosion plus Durability and pain tolerance doesn't have anything to due with Stamina and Energy loss. Godzilla had used a near Spiral beam to stop Gorath and then actually had to physically over power MX before the Keizer transformation.

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Meltdown Godzilla's wounds did heal Destroyer bisected his arm and waist, the white stuff is just more or less dry blood. Destroyer was out matched the entire fight other than the time he knocked Godzilla over and dragged him around and got sneak/group attacks but it was enough to say he held his own

Nope, the slash was there the entire time. I think it was getting shallower, but it was definitely there for quite some time.

The ray does look different though. Slight differences, but it is definitely not the same as time goes on.


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Godzilla was nearly bisected and yet he is able to keep fighting with no blood running at all.
Edited by miguelnuva, Sep 8 2015, 12:52 AM.
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Godzilla got up much quicker from MX's first gravity beams then the explosion plus Durability and pain tolerance doesn't have anything to due with Stamina and Energy loss. Godzilla had used a near Spiral beam to stop Gorath and then actually had to physically over power MX before the Keizer transformation.

He still got up slower than usual from the first barrage. Point is that him being slow to get up isn't an instant sign that the Gokuzilla is tired.

The horn katana is extremely odd. As you pointed out in those shots, it does go through Godzilla...but the actual cut is rather shallow compared to the beam. It's like he buried a sword in Godzilla's shoulder, yanked it out, and then swung it again. If it had cut him in half, there would be a cutline on his stomach. By the way, if you look at the shoulder, you'll see that his skin is still parted there in the second screen shot.
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