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| Ssj2 and 3 vegeta question | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 1 2015, 05:55 PM (6,259 Views) | |
| + Ssj3vegito96 | Sep 1 2015, 05:55 PM Post #1 |
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Super saiyan is a response to extreme hopelessness, rage, and a lot of training. Vegeta vs beerus scene seemed like it was enough to let him turn ssj3 but he only turned ssj2. So what gives? What does it take? Is ssj3 more about training/practice than the ssj1 and 2? My other question is vegeta was ssj2 right? His hair looked like ssj2 I think. Idk I suck at the telling the difference with vegeta Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Sep 1 2015, 05:56 PM.
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| Tinny | Sep 1 2015, 06:50 PM Post #2 |
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From what I can tell ssj3 is just a form you can get by training, demand rather than need in a way, while the other two forms when they were first unveiled required really big things to happen to the one that gained it, like in the cell and freeza saga, conversely Goku gained ssj3 by... Training. And that's pretty much it. Training is the only way to attain ssj3. Edited by Tinny, Sep 1 2015, 06:50 PM.
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| Instant Transmission | Sep 1 2015, 07:31 PM Post #3 |
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But Goku got SSJ2 and 3 through training. Vegeta 1 and 2 through training. Neither through emotions. |
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Sep 1 2015, 07:34 PM Post #4 |
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Super-Saiyan 3 is not a form. AT just fast-forwarded and let Goku's hair grow, and then cut it again to make it look like a new form. It was Super-Saiyan 2 all along. |
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| Tinny | Sep 1 2015, 07:39 PM Post #5 |
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Fair enough, though I suppose what I mean is that when burg forms were introduced it was a big deal, super saiyan was a response to Freeza and everything that happened up to this point, same with ssj2, ssj3 stands out as the only form that when it first debuted, there wasn't anything behind it except that Goku trained allot. Since ssj3 doesn't seem to respond to emotions I can't imagine why it would now. |
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| Frost Demon Mint | Sep 1 2015, 11:30 PM Post #6 |
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I Am Sustained
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I don't think normal saiyans can unlock SSJ3. Goku had to be dead to get it, and Gotenks had to fuse with both components being super saiyans at the start. |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Sep 2 2015, 12:40 AM Post #7 |
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魔王子
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Super Saiyan 3 seems like a very unnatural state. Maybe what Vegeta attained was the true ascension beyond SSJ2? EDIT: Heck, maybe SSJ2 and SSJ3 are merely the grade equivalents for Super Saiyan Full Power. Maybe he unlocked "True Super Saiyan 2" so to speak. Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Sep 2 2015, 01:02 AM.
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| Ripator | Sep 2 2015, 03:46 AM Post #8 |
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My opinion on it is that a saiyan when transforming, is drawing from a deep reservoir of power to access the Super Saiyan Sate, which requires extreme emotion (ie rage, frustration, ect) to grant initial access. Each new super saiyan form is the saiyan drawing more and more of their super saiyan power. With training they can learn how "ascend" to the next level (ie super saiyan 2 and 3) which is just drawing on more of their hidden power. They transform so their bodies can sustain the new level of power. But the more you draw on it, the harder it is to control. Which is why we see each Super saiyan state get progressively more unstable (Super saiyans 2, and 3). My theory is that during Super saiyan 3, the saiyan is harvesting the deepest reaches of their hidden super saiyan power. But gaining such a form to sustain such a large amount of power is incredibly difficult. So hard that some are just simply un able to attain such a transformation. Special conditions (ie being dead or being fused) might enable a sayain to reach a transformation able to sustain the very depths of super saiyan power. This could explain why some saiyans can reach super saiyan 3, while others cant. And why Its such an unstable form.
Or this. Truth be told, its all speculation. We really dont have a difinitive answer to how the Super Saiyan form functions. Its up to how the reader interprets the manga. |
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| + Ryebrid | Sep 2 2015, 01:04 PM Post #9 |
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I think the initial transformation isn't possible with a normal body, or one that isn't augmented or unnatural. I say this because I believe Super Saiyan 3 was maybe never meant to be achieved, or not the state that it's shown in. It's a painful, unnatural transformation that forcefully brings out the dormant potential of the person. Unlike the first two, it (truly)alters the body, forcing it to grow so it can maintain the enormous chi. But not for very long, as it's power that their body is meant to accommodate to over time; having trained so hard, and mastered SSJ, 5 minutes is all they can muster. If a Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta tried transforming into Super Saiyan 3, he would be powering up for a long time until his body finally burns out. He just can't generate enough chi in his body in order to reach that initial transformation, because he is trying to tap into something he isn't meant to be able to. If that makes sense. Edited by Ryebrid, Sep 2 2015, 01:05 PM.
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| Hearts | Sep 4 2015, 01:06 PM Post #10 |
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I assumed SSJ 3 was something different, Goku himself said that he attained the form by seeking out something very deep inside of him, no rage boost or anything. It could simply be that Vegetas personality doesnt allow him to get to the "zen" state Goku did. About Gotenks, I never liked the "otherworld or fusion" argument per say, my theory is that fusion doesnt just put together two powerlevels but also two intellects, increasing Gotenks IQ by alot, hence allowing him to create new techniques like the volley boll crap or the sentient Kamikaze attack. His personality stays the same though and thats why hes not a logical person. |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Sep 4 2015, 02:06 PM Post #11 |
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魔王子
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I also have another theory, that sorta goes back to a form of the diffusion theory that suggests Vegeta's and Goku's potential became that of Vegetto's, perhaps half of it anyway. This rage boost probably brought out all of that potential, so Vegeta here is a potential Vegetto, maybe half of one.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Sep 4 2015, 04:10 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Sep 4 2015, 02:48 PM Post #12 |
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So could we say that vegeta is just not able to turn ssj3 atm because he didn't go through the right training yet? Makes sense Also, so vegeta was ssj2 against beerus right? The electricity wasn't just there to show power? Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Sep 4 2015, 02:50 PM.
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Sep 4 2015, 03:14 PM Post #13 |
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魔王子
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I mean, I assume he was. There's really no visual difference between SSJ and SSJ2 Vegeta, sparks aside of course. Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Sep 4 2015, 03:14 PM.
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| Zippy_Skillz | Sep 4 2015, 03:37 PM Post #14 |
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I think the unnatural drain that SSJ3 causes was always enough to indicate that it is very much separate from the other 2 SSJ forms. I always thought until perfectly mastered it had its toll on life form and drained from there which is why Goku would be so tired after using it, heck thats just a theory though. Its releasing all the power withen @ the SSJ2 confusion. Yup its likely Vegeta was SSJ2. When Goku went SSJ2 against Beerus his sparks only lasted a few secs aswell, for what its worth. Edited by Zippy_Skillz, Sep 4 2015, 04:41 PM.
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| Doctor Know | Sep 4 2015, 08:40 PM Post #15 |
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I think SSJ3 is an unnatural state. Goku got it by being dead, and not having to severe energy and physical drain on him, that SSJ3 causes when he uses it alive. Gotenks got the form as a fused character. Since the fusion dance is a magic ritual of sorts, and it generates a lot of free ki, power and special abilities, when the ritual is successfully completed. It's possible that Gotenks achieved because of those circumstances. As a fused being, neither Goten or Trunks carry the fatigue, damage of strain of the person they fuse to become. Or we could just say that Toriyama and his editors wanted to create a new SSJ form, but didn't care enough to define it very well. |
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