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Losing interest in Super..
Topic Started: Aug 29 2015, 05:00 PM (4,846 Views)
caryslan
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Dark Matter
Aug 29 2015, 06:47 PM
The series is just bad, bordering on terrible at times and has absolutely none of the interest or entertainment that we as fan used to love about the original series. It's terribly paced, mediocre to outright horrible animation, inconsistent with its artwork, the characters have made almost 180 degree turns from what they were like originally and there's little to absolutely no effort at all put into it.

The very minor things that are good are nothing more than tidbits compared to the rest.

It's not only a poor anime series but its a poor Dragon Ball series with almost nothing of what we loved about the original material in it. I find little to no effort being put into it. It has become nothing more than a cow, with Farmer Toei milking them udders until the money sacks have gone dry. Maybe you'll get some sour milk here but hey, sell it anyways cause money is money.

And thus we got a heaping helping of Sour Episode 5 milk.

The series is poor, straight and simple and frankly, even when we get to the Universe 6 stuff (If we get there at this point) I still have no hope, because if the effort shown in these last episodes are what we're getting, I have no hope for this series. It amazes me that anyone here can actually praise or support this series after the crap it's thrown out both to the anime fans and more so to the very loyal anime fans.
I hear the "characters have taken a 180% turn and are nothing like they were in DBZ" argument time and time again, but outside Buu I would love to see some examples. Because all the other characters are pretty close to how they were at the end of the Buu saga.

As for the inconsistent artwork argument, people seem to forget that Dragon Ball Z also had its share of issues in terms of animation.

Take a look at this link: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/animation-styles/

I'm not saying Super does not have some issues with its animation, but outside of EP 5, nothing has been horrible so far. Is it on the level of the movies or the intros for video games? No, the animation is nowhere close. But for a weekly anime series on a TV budget, the animation is decent enough.

As for the pacing, again do people just put on the Nostalgia blinders when they bring up this argument? Dragon Ball Z while better then many animes, also had its share of pacing problems, that ranged from filler episodes(anyone remember the Sayian Saga?), numerous scenes where they characters would do nothing more then stand around, talk, stand around some more before they finally decide to powerup and start fighting.

It should tell you something when Dragon Ball Kai managed to whittle down the episode count down to 159 from the total that DBZ had of 291.

I honestly don't get why people hate this show so much. I can understand if you want new content, but I've enjoyed the retelling of Battle of Gods and the expansion of the overall storyline.

Many of the "flaws" people seem to pick up on were issues Dragon ball, Dragon Ball Z, and GT had as well.






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* Yu Narukami
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The practices of the DBZ anime may have been more acceptable back when it was airing, but they just can't make it in today's industry. The original series making mistakes doesn't give Super a free pass to make those mistakes as well, and the way they handled episode 5 (the first fight of the series) is unacceptable. A lot of people like DBZ for the fighting. If your first fight is crappy, that doesn't bode well for the rest of the series. Even if the fights in the future are amazing, episode 5 will stick out like a sore thumb. Most series have an episode like this, but not in the first few. Why not allocate the budget and animators that were used for the first few episodes (which were almost SOL-ish and didn't really require a whole lot) and put them to episode 5? I'd put up with poor-looking quieter episodes for fighting episodes that look great.

I'm trying my best to get into this series, but I just find myself going back to Z. Sure, it's bad now, but nostalgia's really powerful. I can remember when my standards weren't too high and I thought that DBZ was the best thing ever. If it released now, I'd probably be in the same situation as I am with Super.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

To be honest Beerus is the only thing I feel like they're getting right, he's a badass villain now and fairly unpredictable which is always cool.

Almost everyone else is one dimensional as f***.

I guess the issue could be that they've crammed so many characters in to it that have no real purpose being there...I mean really why would Piccolo go to a birthday party? Don't get me started on the Pilaf nonsense.


It's just really quite boring, if you take nostalgia goggles off how many anime do you like that took 7 or more episodes to actually go anywhere? Had DBZ not been half my childhood I'd probably either not even watch this or wait until it was done.

I get the horrible feeling that when this series is done if I could go back in time my reaction would be "we don't need more Dragon Ball."
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Dark Matter
Aug 29 2015, 07:35 PM
Clearin
Aug 29 2015, 07:06 PM
Quote:
 
It amazes me that anyone here can actually praise or support this series after the crap it's thrown out both to the anime fans and more so to the very loyal anime fans.

Don't you think you're being a bit harsh? It's fine if you don't like something, but you make it sound like the people who do like it are wrong or something.
Entertainment is subject to opinion but there are certain things that makes something good or bad. It's no different than watching an old B-movie by Ed Wood. His works can be entertaining and worth the laugh not unlike "The Room" but it doesn't stop them from being critically poor. If someone likes Super, good on them I suppose though I don't know why personally because all the things that I and others loved about the original series is gone here and I definitely can't hold it to any good standards as a critic trying to review the material directly.

Dragon Ball Super has had completely inconsistent and terrible artwork and animation, something that is unforgivable in our time age. Characters have changed drastically from their original material with no reasons for them or added depths either. The voice acting for Kaio-sama is often poor and clearly not up to the standards he was in the past (A minor point compared to the rest but my point still stands.) The series is inconsistent to its original material and things are changed up so much they don't make sense.

And these here are the critical facts that nobody can deny. Nobody can deny that Super has had some awful animation. Nobody can deny that Kaio-Sama's voice actor is not putting in nearly the same amount of capable of effort he has done in the past. Nobody can deny that things are being changed or twisted around constantly from the original material with no reasons for it.

I don't think I'm being harsh. In fact I think I'm being far too kind. The love the fans have for this series is great and this is the stuff Toei Animation throws for its new generation? How can I not feel sickened by what feels like a huge slap to the face of fans who may have been here since the very start when the manga was being published in the 80s. It's one to have a bad series but show love and attention to it. That was the original series, it could be stupid at times but it was clear that effort and a love for the material was still there.

Why should I show any respect for something in which even the original author doesn't seem able to able to show any respect for his own work?
They like it because they're not you. No show on Earth is universally liked by everybody, so just because you might not like something doesn't make that the deciding factor on if something is good or not. It's insulting to say things like "I don't know how anybody can like this" or "I'm amazed (in a bad way) that people like this".

Also I would deny Super has terrible animation, I have no idea where that even came from. It has bad art, especially in episode 5, due to character models often being really weird, but the animation itself has been fine. I would also deny that characters have changed personality, except maybe 3 at most. But at the end of the day all these "critical facts" don't determine if it's enjoyable anyway. The things that determine if it's enjoyable are all subjective, like if people like the characters, the writing, the gags, the story etc, and there's no way these things are objectively bad because they're all down to opinion.

People who don't like it should just stop watching it and stop thinking about it. There's lots of shows I don't like, and instead of letting them bother me, I just decide to not let them be apart of my life.
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caryslan
Aug 29 2015, 08:22 PM
Dark Matter
Aug 29 2015, 06:47 PM
The series is just bad, bordering on terrible at times and has absolutely none of the interest or entertainment that we as fan used to love about the original series. It's terribly paced, mediocre to outright horrible animation, inconsistent with its artwork, the characters have made almost 180 degree turns from what they were like originally and there's little to absolutely no effort at all put into it.

The very minor things that are good are nothing more than tidbits compared to the rest.

It's not only a poor anime series but its a poor Dragon Ball series with almost nothing of what we loved about the original material in it. I find little to no effort being put into it. It has become nothing more than a cow, with Farmer Toei milking them udders until the money sacks have gone dry. Maybe you'll get some sour milk here but hey, sell it anyways cause money is money.

And thus we got a heaping helping of Sour Episode 5 milk.

The series is poor, straight and simple and frankly, even when we get to the Universe 6 stuff (If we get there at this point) I still have no hope, because if the effort shown in these last episodes are what we're getting, I have no hope for this series. It amazes me that anyone here can actually praise or support this series after the crap it's thrown out both to the anime fans and more so to the very loyal anime fans.
I hear the "characters have taken a 180% turn and are nothing like they were in DBZ" argument time and time again, but outside Buu I would love to see some examples. Because all the other characters are pretty close to how they were at the end of the Buu saga.

As for the inconsistent artwork argument, people seem to forget that Dragon Ball Z also had its share of issues in terms of animation.

Take a look at this link: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/animation-styles/

I'm not saying Super does not have some issues with its animation, but outside of EP 5, nothing has been horrible so far. Is it on the level of the movies or the intros for video games? No, the animation is nowhere close. But for a weekly anime series on a TV budget, the animation is decent enough.

As for the pacing, again do people just put on the Nostalgia blinders when they bring up this argument? Dragon Ball Z while better then many animes, also had its share of pacing problems, that ranged from filler episodes(anyone remember the Sayian Saga?), numerous scenes where they characters would do nothing more then stand around, talk, stand around some more before they finally decide to powerup and start fighting.

It should tell you something when Dragon Ball Kai managed to whittle down the episode count down to 159 from the total that DBZ had of 291.

I honestly don't get why people hate this show so much. I can understand if you want new content, but I've enjoyed the retelling of Battle of Gods and the expansion of the overall storyline.

Many of the "flaws" people seem to pick up on were issues Dragon ball, Dragon Ball Z, and GT had as well.






Okay as a member of Kanzenshuu myself. Let me school you son. Because you're argument is tired and been debunked so many times on that website. No one forget DBZ's poor animation moments. OK. That's a PISS POOR terrible a*** argument and it's so bad you shouldn't use it again. The first few episodes of the previous 3 series were much better animated and consistent than Suoer. You know why? Because Toei knew have to balance their schedule. Toei had better workers back then compared to now. Yes DB franchise had bad animation before. We know this. STOP SAYING this. It was a hell of a lot more consistent than Super been so far(Comparing the first 7-10 episodes). A piss poor argument you people who bring up that animation guide. It's be debunked many of times. Hopefully you won't use it again. The whole argument is flawed.

For a weekly series. You can tell Toei is rushing. So it's not decent. They saw the success of the new movie and rushed into a new series without planning (probably why we're stuck in dumbass retelling). That's why shows like Saint Seiya and Sailor Moon Crystal had to be reanimated for DVD and BLU RAY. Because Toei rushed. So as a weekly series the animation (Idgaf about animation btw) is mediocre.

The pacing. Did you just use the nostalgia card. Come on kid. Stop. I gotta school you some more. Pacing TO THIS DAY is a major complaint in DBZ. How the f*** are people ignoring Dbz pacing when Dbz still get pacing bashing and 5 minutes joke. Please cut that terrible argument out. Omg nostalgia LMAO that's why Super gets bashed. No my student. It's because the series is NOT WORTH IT. Btw DBZ was airing the same time the manga was producing. It was adapting a work. At least DBZ pacing had a reason. DB Super has nothing to adapt except for Toriyama essay on U6, Thats it. Two completely different scenarios.

Yes some flaws was in DB, Z, and GT. BUT guess what. People still complain about them. So that little nostalgia argument you're using is a bad argument. Try again or get an E for effort. Maybe when it's the first series in 15-19 years they should put some effort in there. Okay? Don't make terrible arguments for people complainng (legit complains) when Stevie Wonder can see how rushed this s*** is.


Btw DB, DBZ, AND GT had 1 character with a bad voice actor. Oh s*** we're nostalgic so we'll complain about King Kai voice actor in Super because my nostalgia goggles love everything about DBZ AND DB. *GIGGLES*. Nostalgia is the worse argument you can present.

Quote:
 
Super has terrible animation, I have no idea where that even came from. It has bad art, especially in episode 5, due to character models often being really weird, but the animation itself has been fine.

People who study animation actually have been calling Super animation and Character art bad. Even South Korea had an article on it. The animation isn't good.

Quote:
 
o be honest Beerus is the only thing I feel like they're getting right, he's a badass villain now and fairly unpredictable which is always cool.

Beerus is more predictable now than ever. What are you talking about? He's also more of a clown than ever. I hate him more now tbh. A disgrace to DB.
Edited by TheGmGoken, Aug 29 2015, 08:51 PM.
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People who study animation actually have been calling Super animation and Character art bad. Even South Korea had an article on it. The animation isn't good.

The animation is fine imo. Nothing spectacular, but other than a couple of scenes I haven't been bothered by it. The character art is bad, yeah.
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TheGmGoken
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Aug 29 2015, 08:53 PM
Quote:
 
People who study animation actually have been calling Super animation and Character art bad. Even South Korea had an article on it. The animation isn't good.

The animation is fine imo. Nothing spectacular, but other than a couple of scenes I haven't been bothered by it. The character art is bad, yeah.
That's your opinion. Okaaaaay. I trust people who study animation and done animation for shows than yours. Unless you done stuff I don't know about.
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That's your opinion. Okaaaaay. I trust people who study animation and done animation for shows than yours. Unless you done stuff I don't know about.

Yeah, exactly, it's my opinion. Whether people like the animation or not is entirely opinion o: Who woulda guessed. The fact you need someone to tell you if the animation is bad or not is kinda silly.
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TheGmGoken
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Aug 29 2015, 08:59 PM
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That's your opinion. Okaaaaay. I trust people who study animation and done animation for shows than yours. Unless you done stuff I don't know about.

Yeah, exactly, it's my opinion. Whether people like the animation or not is entirely opinion o: Who woulda guessed. The fact you need someone to tell you if the animation is bad or not is kinda silly.
I was poking fun at you saying "Imo" as it's obvious that it is.

And little woodchuck. I bashed the animation WAAAAAAAY before the Korean article came out. Try again.
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And I was poking fun at you for saying "I trust x opinion over yours" since you shouldn't need to trust an opinion at all on something you have first hand experience with.
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TheGmGoken
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Aug 29 2015, 09:03 PM
And I was poking fun at you for saying "I trust x opinion over yours" since you shouldn't need to trust an opinion at all on something you have first hand experience with.
Actually I can. Im speaking from my PoV since I'm looking at this like an AMV. The article gave info on the animation PoV as they go in depth on how to create animation.

Two different PoVs. I combined them to make a new PoV. Simple.
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Yeah, it's so so for me too. The pacing and the choreography leave a lot to be desired right now. It's not all that entertaining to watch Beerus make light of everyone... for an entire god damn episode! Seriously, Beerus eliminated everyone in what? 5 minutes in Battle of Gods?
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caryslan
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TheGmGoken
Aug 29 2015, 08:44 PM
caryslan
Aug 29 2015, 08:22 PM
Dark Matter
Aug 29 2015, 06:47 PM
The series is just bad, bordering on terrible at times and has absolutely none of the interest or entertainment that we as fan used to love about the original series. It's terribly paced, mediocre to outright horrible animation, inconsistent with its artwork, the characters have made almost 180 degree turns from what they were like originally and there's little to absolutely no effort at all put into it.

The very minor things that are good are nothing more than tidbits compared to the rest.

It's not only a poor anime series but its a poor Dragon Ball series with almost nothing of what we loved about the original material in it. I find little to no effort being put into it. It has become nothing more than a cow, with Farmer Toei milking them udders until the money sacks have gone dry. Maybe you'll get some sour milk here but hey, sell it anyways cause money is money.

And thus we got a heaping helping of Sour Episode 5 milk.

The series is poor, straight and simple and frankly, even when we get to the Universe 6 stuff (If we get there at this point) I still have no hope, because if the effort shown in these last episodes are what we're getting, I have no hope for this series. It amazes me that anyone here can actually praise or support this series after the crap it's thrown out both to the anime fans and more so to the very loyal anime fans.
I hear the "characters have taken a 180% turn and are nothing like they were in DBZ" argument time and time again, but outside Buu I would love to see some examples. Because all the other characters are pretty close to how they were at the end of the Buu saga.

As for the inconsistent artwork argument, people seem to forget that Dragon Ball Z also had its share of issues in terms of animation.

Take a look at this link: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/animation-styles/

I'm not saying Super does not have some issues with its animation, but outside of EP 5, nothing has been horrible so far. Is it on the level of the movies or the intros for video games? No, the animation is nowhere close. But for a weekly anime series on a TV budget, the animation is decent enough.

As for the pacing, again do people just put on the Nostalgia blinders when they bring up this argument? Dragon Ball Z while better then many animes, also had its share of pacing problems, that ranged from filler episodes(anyone remember the Sayian Saga?), numerous scenes where they characters would do nothing more then stand around, talk, stand around some more before they finally decide to powerup and start fighting.

It should tell you something when Dragon Ball Kai managed to whittle down the episode count down to 159 from the total that DBZ had of 291.

I honestly don't get why people hate this show so much. I can understand if you want new content, but I've enjoyed the retelling of Battle of Gods and the expansion of the overall storyline.

Many of the "flaws" people seem to pick up on were issues Dragon ball, Dragon Ball Z, and GT had as well.






Okay as a member of Kanzenshuu myself. Let me school you son. Because you're argument is tired and been debunked so many times on that website. No one forget DBZ's poor animation moments. OK. That's a PISS POOR terrible a*** argument and it's so bad you shouldn't use it again. The first few episodes of the previous 3 series were much better animated and consistent than Suoer. You know why? Because Toei knew have to balance their schedule. Toei had better workers back then compared to now. Yes DB franchise had bad animation before. We know this. STOP SAYING this. It was a hell of a lot more consistent than Super been so far(Comparing the first 7-10 episodes). A piss poor argument you people who bring up that animation guide. It's be debunked many of times. Hopefully you won't use it again. The whole argument is flawed.

For a weekly series. You can tell Toei is rushing. So it's not decent. They saw the success of the new movie and rushed into a new series without planning (probably why we're stuck in dumbass retelling). That's why shows like Saint Seiya and Sailor Moon Crystal had to be reanimated for DVD and BLU RAY. Because Toei rushed. So as a weekly series the animation (Idgaf about animation btw) is mediocre.

The pacing. Did you just use the nostalgia card. Come on kid. Stop. I gotta school you some more. Pacing TO THIS DAY is a major complaint in DBZ. How the f*** are people ignoring Dbz pacing when Dbz still get pacing bashing and 5 minutes joke. Please cut that terrible argument out. Omg nostalgia LMAO that's why Super gets bashed. No my student. It's because the series is NOT WORTH IT. Btw DBZ was airing the same time the manga was producing. It was adapting a work. At least DBZ pacing had a reason. DB Super has nothing to adapt except for Toriyama essay on U6, Thats it. Two completely different scenarios.

Yes some flaws was in DB, Z, and GT. BUT guess what. People still complain about them. So that little nostalgia argument you're using is a bad argument. Try again or get an E for effort. Maybe when it's the first series in 15-19 years they should put some effort in there. Okay? Don't make terrible arguments for people complainng (legit complains) when Stevie Wonder can see how rushed this s*** is.


Btw DB, DBZ, AND GT had 1 character with a bad voice actor. Oh s*** we're nostalgic so we'll complain about King Kai voice actor in Super because my nostalgia goggles love everything about DBZ AND DB. *GIGGLES*. Nostalgia is the worse argument you can present.

Quote:
 
Super has terrible animation, I have no idea where that even came from. It has bad art, especially in episode 5, due to character models often being really weird, but the animation itself has been fine.

People who study animation actually have been calling Super animation and Character art bad. Even South Korea had an article on it. The animation isn't good.

Quote:
 
o be honest Beerus is the only thing I feel like they're getting right, he's a badass villain now and fairly unpredictable which is always cool.

Beerus is more predictable now than ever. What are you talking about? He's also more of a clown than ever. I hate him more now tbh. A disgrace to DB.
Ok, let me start off by saying that I really don't need a condescending tone to your reply. I'm not some newbie who picked up watching Dragon Ball Z a month ago while browsing the anime section of Hulu.

And you seem to have missed my point all the way. I never said Super should be given a free pass, nor am I blindly protecting the show without noticing its flaws.

My point is that many of the flaws that people call Super out on are the same flaws that Dragonball, DBZ, and GT all had.

You want my opinion? The pacing for the Battle of the Gods arc is not that bad. By Episode 9, we're likely to start the battle between Super Sayian God Goku and Beerus.

What do people want, Beerus and Goku to throw down in the first episode? You think the pacing is terrible, I think its fine for a weekly show.

Tell me, what is so bad about the pacing? Fair enough, Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z's filler were justified by the fact that they were adopting the manga, and in the case of DBZ, there is a version that gets rid of the filler and brings it closer to the manga.

But GT had far worse pacing then Super ever did.

Its a difference of opinion, but I have no issues with Super's pacing. GT never really picked up until the fight with General Rildo and the Baby Saga. At least Super is already getting to the Beerus vs Super Sayian God Goku battle by episode 9 or 10.

So, it breaks down along these lines. Episodes 1-4 are catch-up episodes that show what everyone was up to after the Buu Saga, introduces Beerus and gets everyone as Bulma's party. Episode 5 is the battle between Goku and Beerus, Episode 6 is Vegeta's attempts to keep Beerus happy, and Episode 7 is everyone trying to stop Beerus.

The Battle of the Gods saga will likely be over by Episode 15, and the we will get the Revival of F Saga, and I can't see that being any longer.

So, most likely, 30 Episodes(give or take) will be spent adapting the movies in Super. Which means over 70 episodes will be spent on new content not adopted from movies.

Personally, I like that Super went into more detail regarding events from the movie.

But this argument likely goes in circles. You and others think the pacing is terrible, I think its just fine. Especially for a show that will have at least 100 Episodes.

As for the animation, again, a difference of opinion. I'm not saying its great animation, but its not as horrible as some people run around her claiming. Its decent animation for a weekly series. Again, my opinion. I'm sure people who study and work in animation think the animation sucks. But I doubt most anime that are or were weekly shows like Naruto or even western animation would get high marks either.

Should Toei improve their practices and balance their schedule better? No argument, but its the nature of all animation short of a special event or a movie. Outsource it and make it as cheaply as possible. That's why I said what I did. Compared to the movies or the video game intros, the animation in Super sucks.

Compared to weekly shows, I think its fine. Is there room for improvement? Of course.

But I said this a time and time before, outside of Episode 5, point out with proof the terrible animation in Super. Because for the most part, its been decent.

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The Dragon Ball series is...to make up some random bull**** phrase... like "The Avatar Effect"

We all remember when the movie Avatar came out, it was constantly praised as the best looking movie ever, its visuals were so awesome. It was the biggest hit ever and when it wasn't stealing every award at the Oscars, people were getting pissed. And hey, it was amazing film...visually. Once you peeled away the layers of the movie, while not terrible perhaps, you realized quickly that its the same thing we've seen countless times and offers nothing new, original or really that interesting afterwards.

Dragon Ball is exactly the same thing, especially in the later part of the series. It's visually entertaining and that's usually enough to keep you entertained, especially if you have some really nice animation, music, acting and all that to go along with it. But it lacks an real depth but it goes to show you that people will gladly accept the most mediocre stuff as long as it looks good.

Unfortunately Super lacks even that appeal. ThePrinceofSaiyans put it clearly in one point. The animation lacks choreography and there's little to know fluidity in the animation, even at its best. The pacing is so slow no doubt caused by scenes we've seen before. DBZ for all its flaws, had good points to it and like that Effect I mentioned, the things it did right, it did right very well and that kept our interest.

Super has honestly become "The Room" of DBZ right now, where we're honestly finding more entertainment over how bad some of the stuff it like Episode 5's animation instead of the real material that we're supposed to be entertained by.
Edited by EMIYA, Aug 29 2015, 10:52 PM.
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My Dear Melancholy,

Anyways. I'll just probably catch snippets and stuff until U6 saga. Unless RoF saga is really awesome. Just don't need to see something again lol.
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