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General Smash Topic
Topic Started: Aug 19 2015, 11:52 PM (7,711 Views)
* Yu Narukami
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Again, if there's any evidence that Isaac was #2 on the ballot, I'd be more partial to the idea, but considering that King K. Rool, Shantae and Shovel Knight were all 'fan favourites' too, I doubt it.

If Sakurai has an obsession with Fire Emblem, why'd he only limit it to 6? There are more Pokemon and Mario characters, and there are a huge amount of FE characters he could choose from.

They even specified the fact that he'll be releasing before Fates in the West, giving FE fans the chance to play as him beforehand and trying to bring in more Smash fans to the FE fandom. As for Wolf, Sakurai/Nintendo just decided that Corrin/FE was better to market than Wolf/SF, and considering Fire Emblem: Awakening alone apparently had about 1.77m sales worldwide, it makes sense.
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Yusuke
Dec 19 2015, 06:59 PM
You said that and hence I posted what I said. DLC is very much fanservice. Adding characters people don't request is something that's done in the base roster.

You're obviously ignorant if you think Wolf is a clone. Barely anything about his moveset is similar to Fox. The whole idea of adding Corrin in was advertising FE14, a game that's doing incredibly well without it when you can do the same thing with Wolf for SF: Zero which is a much more anticipated title that can use the Smash rub seeing as it hasn't had a game since 10 years ago.

It isn't. Period. It's all about one man and his obsession over one Nintendo series.
Are you talking only about Nintendo DLCs or on a general level? Because if it's the latter you are so wrong. You think EA, Ubisoft and all these big companies release DLCs because "fanservice"? They release DLCs because they want money. Because it f***ing sells. Who ever asked for specific maps in Battlefield or Call of Duty? I bet there's a small percentage there.

Fox, Falco and Wolf are incredibly similar characters if not complete clones. Maybe one is faster than the other and another is more durable than others etc, but when you come down to it they play exactly the same. It's not advertising FE14 by adding Corrin though, it's advertising Smash. You do see that, right?
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Nagito Komaeda
Dec 19 2015, 07:10 PM
Again, if there's any evidence that Isaac was #2 on the ballot, I'd be more partial to the idea, but considering that King K. Rool, Shantae and Shovel Knight were all 'fan favourites' too, I doubt it.

If Sakurai has an obsession with Fire Emblem, why'd he only limit it to 6? There are more Pokemon and Mario characters, and there are a huge amount of FE characters he could choose from.

They even specified the fact that he'll be releasing before Fates in the West, giving FE fans the chance to play as him beforehand and trying to bring in more Smash fans to the FE fandom. As for Wolf, Sakurai/Nintendo just decided that Corrin/FE was better to market than Wolf/SF, and considering Fire Emblem: Awakening alone apparently had about 1.77m sales worldwide, it makes sense.
There is no evidence for that because like I said before, we have absolutely no idea what the hell went down with the Ballot other than Bayonetta. I'm basing my claims off popularity characters had in the Smash community. Isaac was neck and neck with K. Rool as a top ballot contender.

Because he isn't going to make every character on the roster from FE. Don't try to detract from the main point man. He blatantly added another FE character to the roster where said series had 5 reps already and justified it with the character having a release the following year when the point of DLC is adding characters people requested and wanted in the game. DLC being fanservice was obviously a lie on Sakurai's part for this to happen. He might as well told us the truth and said DLC is going to be based on characters he wanted in the game if this was going to end up happening.

SF Zero is a much more high profile release for 2016 than FE Fates is. That you absolutely can't deny. If you are then you're clearly delusional because Nintendo's Digital Event last year centered around SF Zero. And you're ignoring the fact that FE is booming without the Smash exposure which is a very important tidbit. Sakurai didn't decide that it was better for the market. He just decided that it would be better for his selfish interests to have a 6th rep of a series he's clearly biased towards.

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Are you talking only about Nintendo DLCs or on a general level? Because if it's the latter you are so wrong. You think EA, Ubisoft and all these big companies release DLCs because "fanservice"? They release DLCs because they want money. Because it f***ing sells. Who ever asked for specific maps in Battlefield or Call of Duty? I bet there's a small percentage there.

Fox, Falco and Wolf are incredibly similar characters if not complete clones. Maybe one is faster than the other and another is more durable than others etc, but when you come down to it they play exactly the same. It's not advertising FE14 by adding Corrin though, it's advertising Smash. You do see that, right?


Nintendo DLC. More specifically, Smash Bros DLC. DLC where the director specifically said that all the remaining characters would be fanservice and ended up adding a character hardly anyone wanted.

If you think Wolf is even a semi-clone, you need to do your research because your ignorance is friggin painful. Here's a good read for you.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wolf_%28SSBB%29
Edited by Yusuke, Dec 19 2015, 07:27 PM.
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Yusuke
Dec 19 2015, 07:24 PM
Nintendo DLC. More specifically, Smash Bros DLC. DLC where the director specifically said that all the remaining characters would be fanservice and ended up adding a character hardly anyone wanted.

If you think Wolf is even a semi-clone, you need to do your research because your ignorance is friggin painful. Here's a good read for you.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wolf_%28SSBB%29
Fine, in that case I'll let it go. Still from a sales perspective it's a good move. You can be mad all you want, but this will give Smash better sales.

Sorry for not being a hardcore Smash gamer that knows every single difference between certain characters. To me they play very similarily.
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Emmeth
Dec 19 2015, 07:31 PM
Yusuke
Dec 19 2015, 07:24 PM
Nintendo DLC. More specifically, Smash Bros DLC. DLC where the director specifically said that all the remaining characters would be fanservice and ended up adding a character hardly anyone wanted.

If you think Wolf is even a semi-clone, you need to do your research because your ignorance is friggin painful. Here's a good read for you.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wolf_%28SSBB%29
Fine, in that case I'll let it go. Still from a sales perspective it's a good move. You can be mad all you want, but this will give Smash better sales.

Sorry for not being a hardcore Smash gamer that knows every single difference between certain characters. To me they play very similarily.
I had to do that since there's such a great misconception of clones in the Smash community. People throw the word "clone" so loosely based on the perceived similarities characters have and jump to conclusions based on that. If only they took time to understand the differences these characters had then they would have a better understanding of how they play.

Back on topic though, SF Zero as I mentioned many times before is a much more high profile game coming out next year. We can't judge by sales because neither game has launched in the West. SF Zero was the main title at E3 2015 and FE Fates wasn't. SF Zero is also coming off a 10 year drought of not having a game released so like I said before, having the Smash rub would help the game incredibly by having Wolf return, a character whom people miss tremendously and would love to see return.
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* Yu Narukami
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Yusuke
Dec 19 2015, 07:24 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Dec 19 2015, 07:10 PM
Again, if there's any evidence that Isaac was #2 on the ballot, I'd be more partial to the idea, but considering that King K. Rool, Shantae and Shovel Knight were all 'fan favourites' too, I doubt it.

If Sakurai has an obsession with Fire Emblem, why'd he only limit it to 6? There are more Pokemon and Mario characters, and there are a huge amount of FE characters he could choose from.

They even specified the fact that he'll be releasing before Fates in the West, giving FE fans the chance to play as him beforehand and trying to bring in more Smash fans to the FE fandom. As for Wolf, Sakurai/Nintendo just decided that Corrin/FE was better to market than Wolf/SF, and considering Fire Emblem: Awakening alone apparently had about 1.77m sales worldwide, it makes sense.
There is no evidence for that because like I said before, we have absolutely no idea what the hell went down with the Ballot other than Bayonetta. I'm basing my claims off popularity characters had in the Smash community. Isaac was neck and neck with K. Rool as a top ballot contender.

Because he isn't going to make every character on the roster from FE. Don't try to detract from the main point man. He blatantly added another FE character to the roster where said series had 5 reps already and justified it with the character having a release the following year when the point of DLC is adding characters people requested and wanted in the game. DLC being fanservice was obviously a lie on Sakurai's part for this to happen. He might as well told us the truth and said DLC is going to be based on characters he wanted in the game if this was going to end up happening.

SF Zero is a much more high profile release for 2016 than FE Fates is. That you absolutely can't deny. If you are then you're clearly delusional because Nintendo's Digital Event last year centered around SF Zero. And you're ignoring the fact that FE is booming without the Smash exposure which is a very important tidbit. Sakurai didn't decide that it was better for the market. He just decided that it would be better for his selfish interests to have a 6th rep of a series he's clearly biased towards.

Quote:
 
Are you talking only about Nintendo DLCs or on a general level? Because if it's the latter you are so wrong. You think EA, Ubisoft and all these big companies release DLCs because "fanservice"? They release DLCs because they want money. Because it f***ing sells. Who ever asked for specific maps in Battlefield or Call of Duty? I bet there's a small percentage there.

Fox, Falco and Wolf are incredibly similar characters if not complete clones. Maybe one is faster than the other and another is more durable than others etc, but when you come down to it they play exactly the same. It's not advertising FE14 by adding Corrin though, it's advertising Smash. You do see that, right?


Nintendo DLC. More specifically, Smash Bros DLC. DLC where the director specifically said that all the remaining characters would be fanservice and ended up adding a character hardly anyone wanted.

If you think Wolf is even a semi-clone, you need to do your research because your ignorance is friggin painful. Here's a good read for you.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wolf_%28SSBB%29
Out of curiosity, do you have a source for the bolded part? I don't recall Sakurai stating that DLC was going to be all fan-service.

So, there's no evidence then? ''Smash Community'' is ridiculously vague.

Adding a character who isn't the protagonist isn't going to do a whole lot to advertise the game. If we were talking about Fox, sure, but we're not. Fates has more potential when it comes to marketing because there are three separate scenarios/games. Considering how popular Awakening was, and the success of the 3DS compared to the Wii U, Fates is the obvious choice.

Also, I didn't have any lofty expectations going into the Direct. I thought we were gonna get info on Cloud, the Ballot winner, a few costumes and a stage or two. Corrin took me completely by surprise and I was grateful that we were getting three new characters as opposed to two instead of instantly jumping down Sakurai's throat.
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I don't get it, adding corrin was purely strategic and a great business move
So Sakurai made a business move over pleasing fans he's now horrible?
Well I guess all game companies are evil then ;)
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* Stark
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Corrin was most def japanese fanservice

Fates has already come out and everyone loves it

Go check Corrinsì's japanese yt trailer, you'll see waaaay less dislikes. im psyched about having a fast dragon swordsman in the game btw
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I wish Smash had a better "For fun" online mode. I do enjoy some for glory but I'm more of a casual player, and the skill level in for glory requires a bit too much commitment to the game than I care to invest. When I start a game and immediately get juggled into the air by an inescapable combo, it's not fun. But for fun just isn't that much of a fun mode either. You can only do timed battles and you can only do 2v2 or 4 player free for all. Can't we just have 1v1 stock matches?

And while I'm glad the option for a more competitive mode exists, I feel like the fandom is too overly centred on the competitive aspect of the game. New stages and items basically have no hype around them because they'll never experience them in the only game mode they ever play. I feel like it takes away the whole point of Smash when you strip it of all it's gimmicks. Playing only only one stage (essentially), with no items, and usually only one character, probably just attempting to do the same combo every single game.
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That really is an underwhelming view of the competitive game. It's fun for who plays it that way! There's no point to smash, you have the option to turn off items and janky stages and some people just do because they like it that way.
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Nagito Komaeda
Dec 19 2015, 08:18 PM
Yusuke
Dec 19 2015, 07:24 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Dec 19 2015, 07:10 PM
Again, if there's any evidence that Isaac was #2 on the ballot, I'd be more partial to the idea, but considering that King K. Rool, Shantae and Shovel Knight were all 'fan favourites' too, I doubt it.

If Sakurai has an obsession with Fire Emblem, why'd he only limit it to 6? There are more Pokemon and Mario characters, and there are a huge amount of FE characters he could choose from.

They even specified the fact that he'll be releasing before Fates in the West, giving FE fans the chance to play as him beforehand and trying to bring in more Smash fans to the FE fandom. As for Wolf, Sakurai/Nintendo just decided that Corrin/FE was better to market than Wolf/SF, and considering Fire Emblem: Awakening alone apparently had about 1.77m sales worldwide, it makes sense.
There is no evidence for that because like I said before, we have absolutely no idea what the hell went down with the Ballot other than Bayonetta. I'm basing my claims off popularity characters had in the Smash community. Isaac was neck and neck with K. Rool as a top ballot contender.

Because he isn't going to make every character on the roster from FE. Don't try to detract from the main point man. He blatantly added another FE character to the roster where said series had 5 reps already and justified it with the character having a release the following year when the point of DLC is adding characters people requested and wanted in the game. DLC being fanservice was obviously a lie on Sakurai's part for this to happen. He might as well told us the truth and said DLC is going to be based on characters he wanted in the game if this was going to end up happening.

SF Zero is a much more high profile release for 2016 than FE Fates is. That you absolutely can't deny. If you are then you're clearly delusional because Nintendo's Digital Event last year centered around SF Zero. And you're ignoring the fact that FE is booming without the Smash exposure which is a very important tidbit. Sakurai didn't decide that it was better for the market. He just decided that it would be better for his selfish interests to have a 6th rep of a series he's clearly biased towards.

Quote:
 
Are you talking only about Nintendo DLCs or on a general level? Because if it's the latter you are so wrong. You think EA, Ubisoft and all these big companies release DLCs because "fanservice"? They release DLCs because they want money. Because it f***ing sells. Who ever asked for specific maps in Battlefield or Call of Duty? I bet there's a small percentage there.

Fox, Falco and Wolf are incredibly similar characters if not complete clones. Maybe one is faster than the other and another is more durable than others etc, but when you come down to it they play exactly the same. It's not advertising FE14 by adding Corrin though, it's advertising Smash. You do see that, right?


Nintendo DLC. More specifically, Smash Bros DLC. DLC where the director specifically said that all the remaining characters would be fanservice and ended up adding a character hardly anyone wanted.

If you think Wolf is even a semi-clone, you need to do your research because your ignorance is friggin painful. Here's a good read for you.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wolf_%28SSBB%29
Out of curiosity, do you have a source for the bolded part? I don't recall Sakurai stating that DLC was going to be all fan-service.

So, there's no evidence then? ''Smash Community'' is ridiculously vague.

Adding a character who isn't the protagonist isn't going to do a whole lot to advertise the game. If we were talking about Fox, sure, but we're not. Fates has more potential when it comes to marketing because there are three separate scenarios/games. Considering how popular Awakening was, and the success of the 3DS compared to the Wii U, Fates is the obvious choice.

Also, I didn't have any lofty expectations going into the Direct. I thought we were gonna get info on Cloud, the Ballot winner, a few costumes and a stage or two. Corrin took me completely by surprise and I was grateful that we were getting three new characters as opposed to two instead of instantly jumping down Sakurai's throat.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/06/25/ryu-roy-and-lucas-join-the-battle-sakurai-famitsu-column-vol-481/

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There is a fighter ballot on the official Smash for Wii U/3DS website. We've received an extremely large number of votes, but of course, Lucas, Roy, and Ryu were in development even before the ballot was created. I had a grasp on their popularity and demand, though.

From now on, it is going to be fan service , but I can't keep the development team together forever, so there's only going to be several more characters. I also ask for your patience, as we need time to develop more content.


Vague? I don't see why it's vague at all. People all across the internet had so many different requests for characters to be in the game that all got shelved. Some of these characters I wanted and others I didn't but the bottom line is that they all got shafted. Granted the online fanbase for Smash Bros doesn't represent everyone who plays Smash Bros but that's really irrelevant when you consider the fact that Bayonetta got in the game who's game isn't even among the Top 10 best selling Wii U games. That means less than 10% of Wii U owners play Bayonetta as the game sold less than a million which doesn't account for many people. Most Bayonetta fans were pretty much fans voicing their support on the internet because casuals aren't really all that in to the game. Unless your argument is that Bayonetta fanboys rigged the ballot of course which could very well happen y'know. Wouldn't put it past them. (being half serious here). So yeah, vocal minority my pasty rear end as far as i'm concerned.

Wolf has his own mode in the game not to mention he would presumably play a fairly large role in the story so all that is irrelevant really. Not to mention Wolf is a staple of the Star Fox series so he would be the perfect choice to represent the game. You make it sound as if he's some random NPC. That doesn't even take in to consideration how overreped FE is already and how SF can use another rep and the fact that Nintendo decided to have E3 2015 revolve around SF Zero and not FE Fates. And of course the elephant in the room being that one character was requested by the fans while the other was chosen by the director himself with hardly any fan requests.

I had very high expectations because that's what the Direct was built up to be. We had all these great additions to the roster beforehand like Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy who were all sorely missed by Smash Bros fans and fans including myself were very happy to have them back. Then we had additions like Ryu and Cloud who weren't exactly fan requests but are staples of their respective genres and thus their additions were justified and welcomed by many. Then we get in to the December Direct with high spirits and hopes after all the great things that happened before only for it to be a complete stink fest. That's another thing. People were so excited after Cloud because it meant that Nintendo had yet another surprise up their sleeves only to find out that it was Corrin and Bayonetta out of all the characters which was a hype killer and a nightmare almost. People were excited since April about their characters getting in the game only for this to happen. After months upon months of hype and excitement we get to this and have all our hopes and dreams shattered in a million pieces. Out of all the things wrong with this presentation, that's what made me angry the most.

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I don't get it, adding corrin was purely strategic and a great business move
So Sakurai made a business move over pleasing fans he's now horrible?
Well I guess all game companies are evil then ;)


You're totally dodging everything I just said before. Sakurai said the remaining DLC characters would be fanservice and then he goes ahead and adds a 6th FE character whom people pleaded to not have in the game. If you don't understand that then you're just ignoring everything I said.

Also, Wolf isn't a good business move I guess because he has a game coming out as well which by the way is much more anticipated than FE14 because biased FE fanboy logic.

Quote:
 
Corrin was most def japanese fanservice

Fates has already come out and everyone loves it

Go check Corrinsì's japanese yt trailer, you'll see waaaay less dislikes. im psyched about having a fast dragon swordsman in the game btw


I don't ever recall Corrin being popular at all. Not even on Japanese polls.

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

Corrin no where to be found at all. Ironically, Isaac is neck and neck with Bayonetta but i'll leave that for another day.

And besides if Corrin really was a result of popularity then Sakurai would have mentioned that and all he said was that Corrin was being added because of FE14, AKA his selfish bias of wanting to add FE characters instead of characters people asked for.
Edited by Yusuke, Dec 20 2015, 09:03 PM.
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Reread the link you posted though. It is based on 1.000 votes which are in now way representative of all the people who voted on the Smash Ballot. Like, there's a lot more than just the online smash community that voted on the ballot, and a lot of people who didn't make their vote public or vote in polls or whatever.


Plus I never said he was a ballot character, just Japanese fanservice, like Cloud was probably American fanservice and Bayonetta's European fanservice.

His bias for FE is what got your main in too, by the way! :P
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Dec 20 2015, 09:12 PM
Reread the link you posted though. It is based on 1.000 votes which are in now way representative of all the people who voted on the Smash Ballot. Like, there's a lot more than just the online smash community that voted on the ballot, and a lot of people who didn't make their vote public or vote in polls or whatever.


Plus I never said he was a ballot character, just Japanese fanservice, like Cloud was probably American fanservice and Bayonetta's European fanservice.

His bias for FE is what got your main in too, by the way! :P
Again, I don't buy this vocal minority BS people use to justify whatever it is they try to justify. Bayonetta who's popularity primarily existed from the internet got in the game so i'm not going to shrug off this as being a VM.

That's the only indication we have of what Japanese fans wanted in the game. Source Gaming does a good job of getting as many people to vote on their polls as possible across many different websites. Not to mention the guy that operates that site lives in Japan so he has a better grasp on what's popular there than you and me. Sakurai didn't say Corrin was a fan requested character like Bayonetta so we're left to assume that Corrin is a marketing ploy for FE14 and nothing else.

Roy was added for the same reason Lucas was added in the game. They were popular vets that people wanted back so naturally they returned to the series. One was a popular Melee vet and the other a popular Brawl vet. FE had no influence in that decision.
Edited by Yusuke, Dec 20 2015, 09:23 PM.
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I meant he was added in Melee sorta the same way he was added in Sm4sh and it was mostly a joke. Agree to disagree I guess on the rest though. I can see what you mean, but whatever it is I'll play the s*** out of Corrin
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Dec 20 2015, 07:48 PM
That really is an underwhelming view of the competitive game.
Well it's not really wrong. Competitive players DO strip the game of almost everything. No items, only one stage, and usually one character, which can be further limited to only one tactic.

It's not so much the people who only focus competitively I have a problem with though, it's the fact that Sakurai doesn't really give the more casual fans any online options outside of timed 4 player matches. Would it really be so hard to make a 1v1, 3-stock item match with all normal stages turned on? I'd just like to get full use of all the games features without having to play with a play-settings I don't necessarily enjoy, when the play settings I do enjoy HAS been implemented for the itemless mode.
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