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Re: Super Episode 6 (16 August 2015)
Topic Started: Aug 16 2015, 01:45 AM (11,508 Views)
Tinny
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Well it's Whis they ask to train them. Whis himself is a 100% neutral character. His job is to serve Beerus, and thus whatever Beerus wants him to do, he'll do. He doesn't do anything by himself in terms of good or evil. From what we see in RoF, he seems to genuinely care about Goku and Vegeta's growth as fighters.

Besides, everyone complains about Goku being too one dimensional, so I think it's nice to have him come to terms with the fact that to get stronger (which is his never-ending goal) he has to train with someone who isn't exactly a hero. It adds something to Goku's character, I guess. Vegeta I can't see being bothered by Whis at all.

As for Beerus, we're really not seeing much new here. He still lets Goku live. He still destroyed Kaio's planet in the past in BoG. Sure we get some new scenes of him actually doing the whole "Destruction" part of "Beerus the destroyer", but think about it from a story-telling perspective. In BoG we didn't have time to watch Beerus go around destroying planets. He goes to 1 planet, Earth, and we can't have him destroy Earth and kill everyone. In both BoG and RoF he threatens to destroy the planet if the food isn't perfect.

Whis is the evil henchman at this point, he wild not stop Beerus from rampaging at this point, he is no better than Beerus.

And maybe, but Goku had dimensions as a kid and later as a father... Which they threw away. I don't see a reason to add "willing to train with anyone even if they're pure evil" to that, if anything it makes him even more one dimensional. Sure that might happen, and if it does I might actually start to like Super if they go down this road as you say, bit they aren't, they're retelling BoG and until I know they'll actually do something with their material I see no reason to assume that they'll do anything more.

I am, they're turning him from an interesting character into another one dimensional villain on par with mercenary Tao. And again, the manga actually left room to think of him add a God rather than a bully. Seriously that scene in the anime cloud have been so much better if it were done like the manga. Where they are clearly evil, rather than defenseless pig people that make good food that happens to be a little greasy.

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By the time they are gonna learn from him he either going to be a good guy or most likely a Neutral one.Goku and Vegeta will affect him.

Take Piccolo for example.He was evil, yet Gohan affected him and he became one of best Z-Fighters.

Vegeta was psychotic, he destroys his own kind.
He became one of the most liked characters and a Good guy overall.

Buu used to turn people into candy.
Hercule showed him the way and he became good(spoiled though).

Why would Beerus be any different ?

Maybe, but I doubt it'll show in any meaningful way.

Piccolo had to deal with a that larger than all of them that humbled him and showed how small he really is, forcing him to do good by training Gohan, of which he eventually cared for him and sacrificed his life for. I'm not saying he wasn't a villain and a a*****, but he showed change as early as the fight with Raditz. Unless Super changes from the movies (and it hasn't so far), this in no way happens to Beerus.

Vegeta was humiliated and ground down until he died. This began to force a change in him. Beerus isn't gonna be humiliated by anyone, any time soon. And frankly we don't need a Vegeta replacement, the one we have works fine.

Again Buu underwent an arc, Beerus is not, and even then in Super... Well he's kind of an a**hole too. He doesn't seem to have changed.

IF Beerus under goes character changes over the course of time I might be fine with it, but if BoG and FnF are any indication he won't, and Super has been following that movie like a puppy after its owner. Which means he will never have changed, or payed for his crimes in any way.
Edited by Tinny, Aug 16 2015, 07:55 PM.
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I don't know where this idea of Goku accepting Beerus' destructive tendencies = character development comes from. Goku didn't give a damn about Beerus destroying things until he set his eyes on Earth. There's no righteous anger when Kaio's explaining what Beerus does. All that's there is a burning desire to fight, no thoughts of Beerus being evil or a 'monster'.
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Nagito Komaeda
Aug 16 2015, 07:57 PM
I don't know where this idea of Goku accepting Beerus' destructive tendencies = character development comes from. Goku didn't give a damn about Beerus destroying things until he set his eyes on Earth. There's no righteous anger when Kaio's explaining what Beerus does. All that's there is a burning desire to fight, no thoughts of Beerus being evil or a 'monster'.
Because Goku has never put his desire to get stronger above his "I have to stop the bad guy" morality. While Beerus in RoF is pretty arguable as to whether he's bad or just neutral, it shows that Goku doesn't mind training under someone who will happily destroy planets (or at least that persons assistant). I doubt Goku would train with Freeza or Cell, despite them being great sparring partners at the time.
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Tinny
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But at this point he's no different from Freeza so far. Just a big intergalactic bully really.
Edited by Tinny, Aug 16 2015, 08:02 PM.
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I think he's a bit better than Freeza. Can you see Freeza joining a party and treating Bulma with respect? But yeah, he does seem more evil than he was. I'm pretty sure it's so that his development at the hands of Goku and Vegeta will make more sense.
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Notaka
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Exactly, this arc will be where Beerus will be a better character.

It's his Development arc.He's like Piccolo, Vegeta, or Buu in their first arcs.
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Clearin
Aug 16 2015, 08:00 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Aug 16 2015, 07:57 PM
I don't know where this idea of Goku accepting Beerus' destructive tendencies = character development comes from. Goku didn't give a damn about Beerus destroying things until he set his eyes on Earth. There's no righteous anger when Kaio's explaining what Beerus does. All that's there is a burning desire to fight, no thoughts of Beerus being evil or a 'monster'.
Because Goku has never put his desire to get stronger above his "I have to stop the bad guy" morality. While Beerus in RoF is pretty arguable as to whether he's bad or just neutral, it shows that Goku doesn't mind training under someone who will happily destroy planets (or at least that persons assistant). I doubt Goku would train with Freeza or Cell, despite them being great sparring partners at the time.
Goku's need to stop the bad guy has waned over the years. His need to defeat Boo was overpowered by his desire to have Goten and Trunks do it. His need to stop Beerus from destroying the planet in BoG was put aside in favour of him having a good fight (holding back power).
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lazerbem
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Clearin
Aug 16 2015, 08:03 PM
I think he's a bit better than Freeza. Can you see Freeza joining a party and treating Bulma with respect? But yeah, he does seem more evil than he was. I'm pretty sure it's so that his development at the hands of Goku and Vegeta will make more sense.
Yeah, I could see Freeza going to a party and doing that. He does say "Dodoria-san" and "Zarbon-san" and he's clearly more tolerant with the Ginyu Force than with his other soldiers.

Doesn't make him any less deplorable.
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Notaka
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lazerbem
Aug 16 2015, 08:07 PM
Clearin
Aug 16 2015, 08:03 PM
I think he's a bit better than Freeza. Can you see Freeza joining a party and treating Bulma with respect? But yeah, he does seem more evil than he was. I'm pretty sure it's so that his development at the hands of Goku and Vegeta will make more sense.
Yeah, I could see Freeza going to a party and doing that. He does say "Dodoria-san" and "Zarbon-san" and he's clearly more tolerant with the Ginyu Force than with his other soldiers.

Doesn't make him any less deplorable.
Then he will proceed to blow the planet.

Which Beerus didn't.
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Notaka
Aug 16 2015, 08:08 PM
lazerbem
Aug 16 2015, 08:07 PM
Clearin
Aug 16 2015, 08:03 PM
I think he's a bit better than Freeza. Can you see Freeza joining a party and treating Bulma with respect? But yeah, he does seem more evil than he was. I'm pretty sure it's so that his development at the hands of Goku and Vegeta will make more sense.
Yeah, I could see Freeza going to a party and doing that. He does say "Dodoria-san" and "Zarbon-san" and he's clearly more tolerant with the Ginyu Force than with his other soldiers.

Doesn't make him any less deplorable.
Then he will proceed to blow the planet.

Which Beerus didn't.
Beerus would've. Do you really think he'd just leave the planet if he didn't get to fight the Super Saiyan God (in Super, at least)?
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I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say anymore. I do realise that Beerus has shown to have a shorter temper in Super, which in my own opinion makes him more of a threat and I like it. And I also realise that some people have worries on how this will reflect Goku and Vegeta's desire to train with him, but I'm gonna wait to see how Super does it.

I don't really have any reason to try and defend him. Some people might not like his slightly changed character but it all comes down to opinion, I don't think either is objectively better than the other.
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Tinny
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Clearin
Aug 16 2015, 08:03 PM
I think he's a bit better than Freeza. Can you see Freeza joining a party and treating Bulma with respect? But yeah, he does seem more evil than he was. I'm pretty sure it's so that his development at the hands of Goku and Vegeta will make more sense.
Quite honestly yes, assuming he has reason to be charitable towards them like that. Beerus also has a reason to be respectful, he wants food.
Honestly I hope you're right, but from what I've seen Super isn't interested in doing anything interesting like that. The Manga seems to have taken the wrong turn and Super is really about retelling the movies as an anime. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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Notaka
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Nagito Komaeda
Aug 16 2015, 08:09 PM
Notaka
Aug 16 2015, 08:08 PM
lazerbem
Aug 16 2015, 08:07 PM
Clearin
Aug 16 2015, 08:03 PM
I think he's a bit better than Freeza. Can you see Freeza joining a party and treating Bulma with respect? But yeah, he does seem more evil than he was. I'm pretty sure it's so that his development at the hands of Goku and Vegeta will make more sense.
Yeah, I could see Freeza going to a party and doing that. He does say "Dodoria-san" and "Zarbon-san" and he's clearly more tolerant with the Ginyu Force than with his other soldiers.

Doesn't make him any less deplorable.
Then he will proceed to blow the planet.

Which Beerus didn't.
Beerus would've. Do you really think he'd just leave the planet if he didn't get to fight the Super Saiyan God (in Super, at least)?
Beerus, granted he finds the Super Saiyan God and fights him won't harm the earth.

Frieza if he did fight and won, he would destroy it anyway.

If Beerus calms down he'd probably leave it alone.

Quote:
 
I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say anymore. I do realise that Beerus has shown to have a shorter temper in Super, which in my own opinion makes him more of a threat and I like it. And I also realise that some people have worries on how this will reflect Goku and Vegeta's desire to train with him, but I'm gonna wait to see how Super does it.

I don't really have any reason to try and defend him. Some people might not like his slightly changed character but it all comes down to opinion, I don't think either is objectively better than the other.


Well, me neither.

People can hate him, and I respect them.
I just find him better.he could be one of the better characters in Super.
It's too early to judge.
Edited by Notaka, Aug 16 2015, 08:12 PM.
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Notaka
Aug 16 2015, 08:10 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Aug 16 2015, 08:09 PM
Notaka
Aug 16 2015, 08:08 PM
lazerbem
Aug 16 2015, 08:07 PM
Clearin
Aug 16 2015, 08:03 PM
I think he's a bit better than Freeza. Can you see Freeza joining a party and treating Bulma with respect? But yeah, he does seem more evil than he was. I'm pretty sure it's so that his development at the hands of Goku and Vegeta will make more sense.
Yeah, I could see Freeza going to a party and doing that. He does say "Dodoria-san" and "Zarbon-san" and he's clearly more tolerant with the Ginyu Force than with his other soldiers.

Doesn't make him any less deplorable.
Then he will proceed to blow the planet.

Which Beerus didn't.
Beerus would've. Do you really think he'd just leave the planet if he didn't get to fight the Super Saiyan God (in Super, at least)?
Beerus, granted he finds the Super Saiyan God and fights him won't harm the earth.

Frieza if he did fight and won, he would destroy it anyway.

If Beerus calms down he'd probably leave it alone.
Nah, even in BoG, he states that he'll destroy the planet unless Goku beats him.

Freeza would kill the strong ones and probably enslave the planet after finding out how technologically advanced it is.
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lazerbem
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Yeah, Freeza doesn't really destroy planets that often as it's a lost investment for him. What's the point in conquering if you destroy what you conquer?
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