Eating meat and animal abuse

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Eating meat and animal abuse
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 12 2015, 11:15 PM (2,218 Views)
+ Steve	Aug 16 2015, 07:10 PM Post #16
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Great, so now we can kill all the overpopulated animals we have right? Celebrate not needing to murder them by killing most of them or just wasting money feeding them... It's not really a "just do it differently!" kind of issue most places your meat is going to come from are cheaply sourced and in poor areas where they don't have the equipment or the training to do it painlessly, nor the need to care 'cause they need to feed their family. For that to change a whole lot of money would have to be invested worldwide in to providing the equipment and training, which is obviously fairly unrealistic for any number of countries to take on. Failing that the countries themselves would have to stabilize and have a better economy to afford what to them isn't much of an issue. I think companies would have a hard time getting people accept only eating synthetic meat, GMO's cause enough of a scare.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


+ Sandy Shore	Aug 16 2015, 09:34 PM Post #17
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Steve Aug 16 2015, 07:10 PM Great, so now we can kill all the overpopulated animals we have right? Celebrate not needing to murder them by killing most of them or just wasting money feeding them... Why is your defense of cruelty that we can't stop because it would require us to do something cruel? You just accept that we're deep in cruelty and there's supposedly no way out. That's not a reasonable argument. It would be a tragic necessity that, if the day finally arrives, many animals will still need to be slaughtered as there is nowhere else for them to go. One last act of cruelty is far, far favourable to continuing it until the end of time. The suffering would be cut beyond dramatically if it were illegal to breed them alone. The ones currently on death row won't reap the benefits, but the unborn trillions certainly will. Before you make the argument, don't bother suggesting they deserve to be born; a life of suffering is better than no life at all; "who are we to..." and all that. Quote: It's not really a "just do it differently!" kind of issue most places your meat is going to come from are cheaply sourced and in poor areas where they don't have the equipment or the training to do it painlessly, nor the need to care 'cause they need to feed their family. For that to change a whole lot of money would have to be invested worldwide in to providing the equipment and training, which is obviously fairly unrealistic for any number of countries to take on. Failing that the countries themselves would have to stabilize and have a better economy to afford what to them isn't much of an issue. Nobody is talking about the entire world suddenly turning off animal products over night. Some places are not in a position to do so; for them, kill or be killed is a reality, and I respect that. As I'm sure many logical people against animal abuse do. We—the likes of you and me—are not. We have plenty of alternatives, and a compassionate, civilised society—what we've always claimed to be and what we've seemingly always strived for—would be the ones to do away with animal abuse. "Why is it okay for other countries but not ours?" some childish cry will undoubtedly arise. "Grow up" would be the only reasonable response to anyone with such a complaint. Quote: I think companies would have a hard time getting people accept only eating synthetic meat, GMO's cause enough of a scare. Yes, but that's not an argument in favour now, is it? Because something is an uphill struggle does not, in any way, mean you should leave it be. Unless of course you're willing to admit to being terribly weak. Ginyu is right, too, in that meat isn't sustainable. It does take far more land and resources to produce meat, of which is a great deal of our crops, and damages the environment much more than all the cars in the world. I don't understand people's fear of meat grown in a laboratory, either. The meat you currently eat is tampered with as it is - you honestly have no idea where it's been or what's gone in to growing it. Even if the taste were perfect and it were less harmful to you, most people will still kick off about it being unnatural—as if our machines of torture aren't any more or less so—or how someone fell off a cliff after eating some lab meat. I sure most of you think me preachy and typically annoying over this issue, but do note I'm never the one to make these topics. Edited by Sandy Shore, Aug 16 2015, 09:38 PM.



+ Green	Aug 16 2015, 11:44 PM Post #18
Flashy Thing! Posts: 5,436 Group: Legend Member #1,181 Joined: February 25, 2006 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Fire fox Favourite Manga Gantz	Pyrus Aug 13 2015, 02:05 AM They use much more humane ways to kill the animals now than they used to, at least in this part of the country (United States, can't speak for other countries). Air guns for one example. No pain! To my knowledge air guns are used mostly on pigs. Cows are strung up and have their throats cut and chickens still have their heads cut off. Mitas Aug 14 2015, 01:53 PM How will we run out of meat if we just keep breeding animals to provide the meat? Genuine question. Would it be to do with running out of the food that we feed them to keep them alive? The amount of water and food it takes to raise animals is large. The resources can be more efficiently used on growing crops Roronoa Zoro Aug 14 2015, 02:52 PM Pyrus Aug 13 2015, 02:05 AM They use much more humane ways to kill the animals now than they used to, at least in this part of the country (United States, can't speak for other countries). Air guns for one example. No pain! This. I have taken a tour of a slaughterhouse of one of the biggest Canadian meat distributors. Without getting into details that may turn people off, all that I can say is that the death of the animals is indeed painless. You only see what they want you to see on a tour.
	Don't you ever worry that you're on the Devil's side without even knowing it? - DCI John Luther Black power ranger; I do not belong... B.o.B - Mr. Mister


+ Steve	Aug 17 2015, 10:41 AM Post #19
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Lazuli Aug 16 2015, 09:34 PM Why is your defense of cruelty that we can't stop because it would require us to do something cruel? You just accept that we're deep in cruelty and there's supposedly no way out. That's not a reasonable argument. Nobody is talking about the entire world suddenly turning off animal products over night. Some places are not in a position to do so; for them, kill or be killed is a reality, and I respect that. As I'm sure many logical people against animal abuse do. We—the likes of you and me—are not. We have plenty of alternatives, and a compassionate, civilised society—what we've always claimed to be and what we've seemingly always strived for—would be the ones to do away with animal abuse. Yes, but that's not an argument in favour now, is it? Because something is an uphill struggle does not, in any way, mean you should leave it be. Unless of course you're willing to admit to being terribly weak. Even if the taste were perfect and it were less harmful to you, most people will still kick off about it being unnatural—as if our machines of torture aren't any more or less so—or how someone fell off a cliff after eating some lab meat. I'm not defending cruelty I'm pointing out how unrealistic and huge an undertaking it would be to stop it. I've seen many people(elsewhere) suggest we "just stop" The alternatives aren't really viable to everyone though, healthy food is pretty damn expensive, at least where I live. Can buy a whole steak pie for £3-5 or for that same amount of money a box of granola bars that'd last anyone like 5 minutes... Healthy food is expensive, hence why so many people just take the lazier option of fast food. Doesn't mean you should leave it be but it does mean the people in control of it would leave it be, they're not going to force synthetic meat on people until it's cheap for them to make and makes them money. Which it won't for a long time most likely, unless they lie and say it's the real thing but some paranoid person is bound to find out and s*** will hit the fan. We'd still have to go out and kill them anyway, predators wouldn't be able to keep up with the "new" species hitting the market if we were to let them go('cause who would pay for them really) then either they're going to overpopulate or predators are going to see a population boom and become a danger to us, or both. Death and killing can't be avoided, a lot of people need to get that. As the dominant and most intelligent species that we know of it's our duty. I wonder if people would be opposed to animals growing like the clones in the movie The Island were thought to? So basically the animal is grown but it's never really "alive" just a body with no brain. Of course it'd be "unethical" an "abomination!" yadda yadda but all people would really be arguing against is that they'd rather eat something that was alive and murdered.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


+ Sandy Shore	Aug 17 2015, 01:56 PM Post #20
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Steve Aug 17 2015, 10:41 AM I'm not defending cruelty I'm pointing out how unrealistic and huge an undertaking it would be to stop it. I've seen many people(elsewhere) suggest we "just stop" The same could have been said of slavery. It would be an inconvenience for many, but certainly not a disaster. Society won't cease to be, businesses will find business elsewhere, and people will get over it like they did owning slaves. Quote: The alternatives aren't really viable to everyone though, healthy food is pretty damn expensive, at least where I live. Can buy a whole steak pie for £3-5 or for that same amount of money a box of granola bars that'd last anyone like 5 minutes... Healthy food is expensive, hence why so many people just take the lazier option of fast food. Fruits, vegetables, nuts, bread, rice and pasta are among the cheapest things you could buy. If price is your concern, then a vegan diet would do you well. I assure you. Vegan cheeses, butter, and milks are pricier than their dairy counterparts—though, it's hardly crippling—and you have a point with fast food being easier, but you could expect these things to change if animals were off the menu. Fast food places that sell cheap on-the-go-food wouldn't cease to exist, and you could expect the dairy companies to get involved in the alternatives - bringing the price right down to where dairy products currently are. Quote: Doesn't mean you should leave it be but it does mean the people in control of it would leave it be, they're not going to force synthetic meat on people until it's cheap for them to make and makes them money. Which it won't for a long time most likely, unless they lie and say it's the real thing but some paranoid person is bound to find out and s*** will hit the fan. They won't be able to leave it be if people stopped buying their products. Consumers have more power than people seem to realise - you're not forced to buy these things. If few people buy them then they'll have to find an alternative. If all the people who claim to care about animals well being—far more than those who admit they truly don't care—tried their hardest to make a transition to even vegetarianism, or meat once or twice a month, then companies will be forced to look into alternatives. Of course, vegetarianism should never be the end goal for anyone looking to eat morally. It's incredibly, incredibly unlikely—though, not an impossible event, as slavery knows—but the benefits would be seen much earlier if it were simply illegal to breed animals. Except for conservation, of course. Quote: We'd still have to go out and kill them anyway, predators wouldn't be able to keep up with the "new" species hitting the market if we were to let them go('cause who would pay for them really) then either they're going to overpopulate or predators are going to see a population boom and become a danger to us, or both. Death and killing can't be avoided, a lot of people need to get that. As the dominant and most intelligent species that we know of it's our duty. Nope. As I said the last time you brought this up, there is a genuine argument that we should slaughter these animals to save them going extinct. Of course, that's not acceptable because the only reason we don't want them to go extinct is because they benefit us. It's much kinder to accept that they may die out, than all the forced breeding, feeding, and torture we subject them to. We can keep them going without having them on the menu too, but it would require non-profit organisations like so many other animals are lucky enough to have. We, as a species, owe it to them as far as I'm concerned. I'm certain they'll find their supporters, even if it weren't people who'd rather eat them instead. We absolutely will not need to hunt them. On the off chance they do begin over-populate? Neuter them. They're not exactly hard for us to get our hands on, now are they? Quote: I wonder if people would be opposed to animals growing like the clones in the movie The Island were thought to? So basically the animal is grown but it's never really "alive" just a body with no brain. Of course it'd be "unethical" an "abomination!" yadda yadda but all people would really be arguing against is that they'd rather eat something that was alive and murdered. I highly doubt that's ever going to a question that concerns us. Lab grown flesh is easily the most likely to take the place of slaughterhouses in the event that something happens to them. We don't need the muscle to be attached to a nervous system or brain. They know so much about doing it; they've proven they can do it; there are definitely no victims in the process. Besides some injections, but slightly inconveniencing an animal on occasion is not something one should concern themselves with - especially when one considers what it would prevent.



SSJ	Aug 19 2015, 04:07 AM Post #21
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Green You only see what they want you to see on a tour. Considering it was my dad that gave me the tour, I would say not this time. Chickens are hung upside down after being numbed/paralyzed. They are then injected with another shock to knock them unconscious. Their throat is then slit in the next step. This is the way my dad's company does it [Maple Leaf Foods], and it is very humane. The animals feel no pain as they go to their death.



Daniel	Aug 19 2015, 06:38 PM Post #22
I like Pokémon Posts: 2,576 Group: Beautiful Mind Member #5,540 Joined: December 22, 2010 Gender Male Country Canada Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, Death Note, Attack on Titan, One Punch Man, Yu Yu Hakusho, I like a lot of stuff. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Deathnote, Black Cat, Attack on Titan, I like a lot of stuff.	Your father is the CEO of Maple Leaf Foods or just the head of a slaughterhouse?



SSJ	Aug 20 2015, 03:03 AM Post #23
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Daniel Aug 19 2015, 06:38 PM Your father is the CEO of Maple Leaf Foods or just the head of a slaughterhouse? He's the Vice President of Operations.



~~Samantha~~	Aug 20 2015, 05:57 PM Post #24
Keyboard Warriors, Everywhere. Posts: 132 Group: Suspended Member #12,297 Joined: May 4, 2015 Gender Female Country United Kingdom	At the end of the day things like these come down too person prefrence. The people against it always come up with the argument of 'it's brutal, it's cruel, it's not right'. Okay in that case then why are animal proteins essential (that is undeniable, if they were not essential we would not have evolved as omnivores) too a well balanced diet. Also lets release them all from the pens and instead, grab our spears, chase after them, and stab them too death multiple times in an unclean, horrible manner, I am sure that would be alot better, and I am sure our ancestors felt awful about doing that. The way in which we ''farm'' animals at the moment is pretty much the best way that we can based on our technology, based on the HUGE supply and demand. Simply put we have reached the point of being the highest predator on the planet (in terms of intelligence, advancement etc) and not only are we providing food for people, we are also treating animals better than they used too be. In most decent, civilized countries animals are killed in the best way possible. Cattle do not sit in their pen thinking ''oh s*** im going to be killed tomorrow'' and being being with very limited intelligence it probably doesn't register in the slightest. Too leave off I ask this. Why in nature is it okay for a pack of wolves too rip apart a deer piece by piece, sometimes the death can take a very long amount of time. Yet just because we are intelligent animals, we hate on the fact that we hunt them in a much more peaceful way too gather what is required for our diet. Veggies need too find something better too take the moral high ground on.
	Keyboard Warrior 1. A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life. 2. Keyboard Warriors are generally identified by unneccessary rage in their written communications, and are regarded as 'losers' by other virtual identities on the internet.


+ Sandy Shore	Aug 20 2015, 07:09 PM Post #25
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Skylar Aug 20 2015, 05:57 PM At the end of the day things like these come down too person prefrence. Yeah, I agree. Like how some people prefer to hate men, women, homosexuals, and people of different colour. Like how some people would prefer to own slaves, or abuse people in their basement. Don't you think we should be allowed to make these decisions, too? Quote: The people against it always come up with the argument of 'it's brutal, it's cruel, it's not right'. Okay in that case then why are animal proteins essential (that is undeniable, if they were not essential we would not have evolved as omnivores) too a well balanced diet. Because they're not? Only protein is essential, regardless of where you get it from. Protein from animals is different in only that way - where it comes from. Not its necessity compared to other sources. Quote: Also lets release them all from the pens and instead, grab our spears, chase after them, and stab them too death multiple times in an unclean, horrible manner, I am sure that would be alot better, and I am sure our ancestors felt awful about doing that. No, let's not do not do that either. What's with the derisive tone when whatever you're attempting to mock was no one's suggestion but your own? Quote: The way in which we ''farm'' animals at the moment is pretty much the best way that we can based on our technology, based on the HUGE supply and demand. We do "farm" them, and demand is not an argument for whether it's acceptable to do so or not. There is a demand by some people for underage prostitutes. Not forgetting the, once a very large, demand for slaves, too. Quote: Simply put we have reached the point of being the highest predator on the planet (in terms of intelligence, advancement etc) and not only are we providing food for people, we are also treating animals better than they used too be. In most decent, civilized countries animals are killed in the best way possible. White people had reached the point of having full control over black people, and they fed and clothed them. Some were even allowed to work in-doors. Does this make it reasonable and acceptable? What about the Nazi's dominance over, what they deemed, the undesirables? The strong get to exert their will, after all. Even if it were true that they were killed in whatever the best way possible is—they're not—does that make it okay? What if someone were to kill you without you having even the slightest discomfort or understanding of the situation, should we permit it? Though, their death is very likely the most pleasant part of their experience. Quote: Cattle do not sit in their pen thinking ''oh s*** im going to be killed tomorrow'' and being being with very limited intelligence it probably doesn't register in the slightest. No, they have no knowledge of their demise. They do however experience rape (forced impregnation) for their entire lives; pegnancy after pregnancy, which culminates in their young being take away from them; getting force fed copious amounts; dirty, cramped living conditions; untreated infections—because medication is considered contaminating the meat—and cows get hooked up to machines that, not only frighten them, but suck their painfully infected udders; chickens have their beaks sliced off. I really could go on. Quote: Why in nature is it okay for a pack of wolves too rip apart a deer piece by piece, sometimes the death can take a very long amount of time. Yet just because we are intelligent animals, we hate on the fact that we hunt them in a much more peaceful way too gather what is required for our diet. Because wolves have no concept of right and wrong. Because wolves had no understanding of self, let alone empathy. Also, it's not required, as has already been explained in this very thread. More convincingly, though, as millions of vegans are living signs. Quote: Veggies need too find something better too take the moral high ground on. It's not about trying to take a moral high ground. It's not about ego. It's not about vegetarians and vegans. I'm sure there are plenty who do it for their ego, but that's not why it's an important cause. Buuberries and The Rest Of The World dislike this.



~~Samantha~~	Aug 20 2015, 07:33 PM Post #26
Keyboard Warriors, Everywhere. Posts: 132 Group: Suspended Member #12,297 Joined: May 4, 2015 Gender Female Country United Kingdom	Lazuli Aug 20 2015, 07:09 PM Skylar Aug 20 2015, 05:57 PM At the end of the day things like these come down too person prefrence. Yeah, I agree. Like how some people prefer to hate men, women, homosexuals, and people of different colour. Like how some people would prefer to own slaves, or abuse people in their basement. Don't you think we should be allowed to make these decisions, too? Quote: The people against it always come up with the argument of 'it's brutal, it's cruel, it's not right'. Okay in that case then why are animal proteins essential (that is undeniable, if they were not essential we would not have evolved as omnivores) too a well balanced diet. Because they're not? Only protein is essential, regardless of where you get it from. Protein from animals is different in only that way - where it comes from. Not its necessity compared to other sources. Quote: Also lets release them all from the pens and instead, grab our spears, chase after them, and stab them too death multiple times in an unclean, horrible manner, I am sure that would be alot better, and I am sure our ancestors felt awful about doing that. No, let's not do not do that either. What's with the derisive tone when whatever you're attempting to mock was no one's suggestion but your own? Quote: The way in which we ''farm'' animals at the moment is pretty much the best way that we can based on our technology, based on the HUGE supply and demand. We do "farm" them, and demand is not an argument for whether it's acceptable to do so or not. There is a demand by some people for underage prostitutes. Not forgetting the, once a very large, demand for slaves, too. Quote: Simply put we have reached the point of being the highest predator on the planet (in terms of intelligence, advancement etc) and not only are we providing food for people, we are also treating animals better than they used too be. In most decent, civilized countries animals are killed in the best way possible. White people had reached the point of having full control over black people, and they fed and clothed them. Some were even allowed to work in-doors. Does this make it reasonable and acceptable? What about the Nazi's dominance over, what they deemed, the undesirables? The strong get to exert their will, after all. Even if it were true that they were killed in whatever the best way possible is—they're not—does that make it okay? What if someone were to kill you without you having even the slightest discomfort or understanding of the situation, should we permit it? Though, their death is very likely the most pleasant part of their experience. Quote: Cattle do not sit in their pen thinking ''oh s*** im going to be killed tomorrow'' and being being with very limited intelligence it probably doesn't register in the slightest. No, they have no knowledge of their demise. They do however experience rape (forced impregnation) for their entire lives; pegnancy after pregnancy, which culminates in their young being take away from them; getting force fed copious amounts; dirty, cramped living conditions; untreated infections—because medication is considered contaminating the meat—and cows get hooked up to machines that, not only frighten them, but suck their painfully infected udders; chickens have their beaks sliced off. I really could go on. Quote: Why in nature is it okay for a pack of wolves too rip apart a deer piece by piece, sometimes the death can take a very long amount of time. Yet just because we are intelligent animals, we hate on the fact that we hunt them in a much more peaceful way too gather what is required for our diet. Because wolves have no concept of right and wrong. Because wolves had no understanding of self, let alone empathy. Also, it's not required, as has already been explained in this very thread. More convincingly, though, as millions of vegans are living signs. Quote: Veggies need too find something better too take the moral high ground on. It's not about trying to take a moral high ground. It's not about ego. It's not about vegetarians and vegans. I'm sure there are plenty who do it for their ego, but that's not why it's an important cause. Buuberries and The Rest Of The World dislike this. The moment you started bringing race / homophobia etc into a conversation about eating meat is the moment I decided not too indulge. Too keep it short, the hunting of animals for the purpose of food is natural, we were doing it before we developed any form of civilization, before homophobia / racism existed. Apparently eating meat and saying what we are currently doing is right, makes someone a homophobic racist huh, you learn something new every day
	Keyboard Warrior 1. A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life. 2. Keyboard Warriors are generally identified by unneccessary rage in their written communications, and are regarded as 'losers' by other virtual identities on the internet.


+ Sandy Shore	Aug 20 2015, 07:40 PM Post #27
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Oh, that's right. You're one of those. Making a valid comparison between one line of thought and another means I'm suggesting you're guilty of that, too. Silly me. You can not refute me and just pretend you're right, but too good to back it up, if you like. It appears to be your modus operandi.



Cal	Aug 21 2015, 04:04 AM Post #28
I may not deserve to live, but I will protect those in my reach with my reverse blade! Posts: 5,259 Group: Member Member #6,087 Joined: April 25, 2011 Gender Female Favourite Anime hentai What Browser do you use? hentaibrowser Favourite Manga hentai	People really need to be more sensitive to this issue. Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle Might have went too far there Spoiler: click to toggle f*** it Spoiler: click to toggle



peep	Aug 21 2015, 09:24 AM Post #29
Posts: 1,104 Group: Member Member #9,326 Joined: April 7, 2013 Favourite Anime Cowboy Bebop, Rurouni Kenshin What Browser do you use? Chrome	I think once school starts up again and I resume working I'm gonna try to go at least semi-vegetarian. Like if I go out to eat with friends and they choose to go to a BBQ place or burger joint or something I won't turn them down but I'm not gonna buy meat to cook at home. Pretty much all the stuff I usually make can be turned vegetarian by swapping in tofu or mushrooms or something (which I would have no problem doing because that s* is f*ing delicious)
	thx accelerator for the sig it is my first sig ever and i love it and i love u


Gearfried	Sep 2 2015, 05:43 PM Post #30
Posts: 283 Group: Member Member #12,609 Joined: August 31, 2015 Gender Male	I can go without meat. i will eat a little once in a while but, i do not need it. I believe that our bodies are meant to eat herbs. the only thing you get out of meat is fat and some vitamins.
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