Gap between #18 and CG Piccolo and Boo arc Piccolo?

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Gap between #18 and CG Piccolo and Boo arc Piccolo?
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 1 2015, 01:48 AM (1,237 Views)
xmysticgohanx	Aug 1 2015, 01:48 AM Post #1
Posts: 107 Group: Member Member #12,293 Joined: May 2, 2015 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime One Piece What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga One Piece	If #18 is a 10 what's CG Piccolo and Boo arc Piccolo?



Slifer	Aug 1 2015, 01:55 AM Post #2
Posts: 3,488 Group: Member Member #10,141 Joined: September 7, 2013	Tough to say. Logic tells me to put him somewhere between Semi-Perfect Cell and CG 50% MSSJ Goku. But then you have Babidi and Dabura choosing Base Saiyans over Piccolo, whom they throw into the "trash" category. Having their Base forms that strong at that time seems off to me. So I guess I don't really know.



+ Six Trails	Aug 1 2015, 01:57 AM Post #3
Posts: 1,570 Group: Elite Member Member #11,764 Joined: October 23, 2014 Gender Not Specified Country United States	#18: 10 Piccolo (CG): 285 Piccolo (Boo): 320



* Ketchup Revenge	Aug 1 2015, 01:58 AM Post #4
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	I really honestly believe that Cell Games Piccolo was beyond Grade 2 Vegeta against Semi-Cell. He held his own against the Cell Jrs, and Grade 2 Vegeta couldn't even make Perfect Cell flinch. With that being said, it also must be said that it's stated that since 18 is human-based, she can get stronger if she trains. I assume you're referring to 18 when we first see her, so I see a minimum of 10x. I doubt that Boo Arc Piccolo was much stronger than his Cell Games self. For the record, I'm not a big believer in ungodly gaps. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Aug 1 2015, 01:59 AM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


Zippy_Skillz	Aug 1 2015, 09:37 AM Post #5
Posts: 90 Group: Member Member #12,513 Joined: July 28, 2015 Gender Male Country None	A18: 10 Cg Piccolo: 127.5 Buu arc Piccolo 135



TheACE	Aug 1 2015, 12:52 PM Post #6
The Last GT Fighter Posts: 4,146 Group: Member Member #9,279 Joined: March 31, 2013 Favourite Anime DB/Z/GT, Digimon, YYH, Yugioh!, GetBackers What Browser do you use? Chrome, Safari, IE Favourite Manga Rave Master, FLCL, .hack//legendofthetwilight, Naruto II	Hmmm, personally because of sliding scale of villiany I have Super Namek Piccolo (Full powered, weights off, sync'd with Nail and Fused with Kami) in the Perfect Cell area (Stronger than the one Goku fought, weaker than the one that Ascended Gohan killed) by the 25th World Tournament. Super Namek Piccolo is just a hair below Trunks and Vegeta, given that YES IT'S FILLER BUT LITERALLY NO MANGA EVIDENCE SO FILLER, he was able to kick sufficient Cell Junior arse during the Cell games. So for Android 18 vs CG Piccolo easily a 5 times or beyond difference, and 25th Tenkaichi at least 7 times stronger.
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Thiln	Aug 1 2015, 03:45 PM Post #7
Posts: 2,481 Group: Member Member #12,166 Joined: March 23, 2015 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball, Attack on Titan What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Hokuto no Ken, Berserk, Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin, Attack on Titan, Kuroshitsuji	Something like this is difficult to quantify. It hinges on where you have Piccolo at these other points in the series, which is completely up to interpretation on the part of the readers. Personally, I think Piccolo was somewhere in the neighborhood of 15% weaker than the Cell Jrs (enough of a gap to be gradually losing while still holding some kind of ground). By the Buu arc, my optimistic favouritism for the guy would like to believe he could have reached MSSJ Goku level (seven years is a long time), but there's really nothing to prove that either way besides Toriyama's quote about him training in his spare time.



+ Pyrus	Aug 1 2015, 04:39 PM Post #8
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	TheACE Aug 1 2015, 12:52 PM Hmmm, personally because of sliding scale of villiany I have Super Namek Piccolo (Full powered, weights off, sync'd with Nail and Fused with Kami) in the Perfect Cell area (Stronger than the one Goku fought, weaker than the one that Ascended Gohan killed) by the 25th World Tournament. Super Namek Piccolo is just a hair below Trunks and Vegeta, given that YES IT'S FILLER BUT LITERALLY NO MANGA EVIDENCE SO FILLER, he was able to kick sufficient Cell Junior arse during the Cell games. So for Android 18 vs CG Piccolo easily a 5 times or beyond difference, and 25th Tenkaichi at least 7 times stronger. Your placement of Piccolo amazes me, matey. To go from below Cell Junior tier to leapfrogging Cell Games MSSj Goku without any indication of doing such is pretty wild, no? In situations like this I always ask why give a character such a big jump in power when there are no statements or feats to support it. As for me, I actually have less than a 10x gap between #18 and Piccolo at the Cell Games, and then just over 10x with Piccolo during the Boo arc as I'm not one to give characters unverified strength boosts. On top of that, Piccolo was no longer the Piccolo of old, and had settled into a mentor role by the time the Cell Games came and went. He trained, surely, but not to the intensity and extent of his previous regimens. arbitrary numbers #18 - 525,000,000 Piccolo (CG) - 4,000,000,000 Piccolo (Boo) - 5,500,000,000 It's a believable increase of ~40% for 7 years of rather lax training while teaching Dende the ropes, and he still ends up a tiny bit below CG Vegeta/Trunks, and far below CG Goku, so nothing is thrown out of whack. Edited by Pyrus, Aug 1 2015, 07:01 PM.
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+ Sandy Shore	Aug 1 2015, 05:47 PM Post #9
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Mr. Hashbrowns Aug 1 2015, 01:55 AM Tough to say. Logic tells me to put him somewhere between Semi-Perfect Cell and CG 50% MSSJ Goku. But then you have Babidi and Dabura choosing Base Saiyans over Piccolo, whom they throw into the "trash" category. Having their Base forms that strong at that time seems off to me. So I guess I don't really know. Could you share the scene in which Babidi chooses the base Saiyans over the others? Either in text or with scans. I don't think Piccolo had powered up, so I see no reason for Babidi's choice to really mean anything beyond Toriyama's choice of making it about the Saiyans and how they constantly shock everyone as they continually display more and more power. Piccolo could easily be more powerful than the base Saiyans, but he's still wholly irrelevant to bother having any character take note of him. The base Saiyans appearing much stronger than a suppressed Piccolo is plenty to make the scene still make sense. I think.



Slifer	Aug 1 2015, 05:57 PM Post #10
Posts: 3,488 Group: Member Member #10,141 Joined: September 7, 2013	Lazuli Aug 1 2015, 05:47 PM Mr. Hashbrowns Aug 1 2015, 01:55 AM Tough to say. Logic tells me to put him somewhere between Semi-Perfect Cell and CG 50% MSSJ Goku. But then you have Babidi and Dabura choosing Base Saiyans over Piccolo, whom they throw into the "trash" category. Having their Base forms that strong at that time seems off to me. So I guess I don't really know. Could you share the scene in which Babidi chooses the base Saiyans over the others? Either in text or with scans. I don't think Piccolo had powered up, so I see no reason for Babidi's choice to really mean anything beyond Toriyama's choice of making it about the Saiyans and how they constantly shock everyone as they continually display more and more power. Piccolo could easily be more powerful than the base Saiyans, but he's still wholly irrelevant to bother having any character take note of him. The base Saiyans appearing much stronger than a suppressed Piccolo is plenty to make the scene still make sense. I think. Everyone was suppressed at the time; no one powered up. So they have nothing to effectively go off of, yet still choose the Base Saiyans and throw Piccolo away. Edited by Slifer, Aug 1 2015, 05:58 PM.



+ Sandy Shore	Aug 1 2015, 06:14 PM Post #11
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Then it would seem they're somehow capable of detecting unexpressed power. If this were true, we have no reason to believe this would only mean their current form, either. It can be reasoned that they can feel the Saiyan's full powers run deeper than Piccolo's. Even if they don't know exactly how much further. Edited by Sandy Shore, Aug 1 2015, 06:15 PM.



Slifer	Aug 1 2015, 06:18 PM Post #12
Posts: 3,488 Group: Member Member #10,141 Joined: September 7, 2013	Lazuli Aug 1 2015, 06:14 PM Then it would seem they're somehow capable of detecting unexpressed power. If this were true, we have no reason to believe this would only mean their current form, either. It can be reasoned that they can feel the Saiyan's full powers run deeper than Piccolo's. Even if they don't know [/i]exactly how much further. Where does that sensing stop? If they can sense something deeper than Base power then why where they so shocked when Base Vegeta was casually beating the tar out of Pui Pui. Babidi practically wet himself at SSJ Goku. Dabura would've ran for the hills if he sensed what Goku and Vegeta were hiding.



+ Sandy Shore	Aug 1 2015, 06:25 PM Post #13
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	If they could conclude that the base Saiyans were stronger than Piccolo, why couldn't they tell Pui Pui was far, far too weak? Because Babidi planned on changing the gravity perhaps, but even with that he must have felt the very significant power gap. That's why I said they must not be able tell what they were hiding exactly, but they could feel it was more than what Piccolo was hiding. They were all hiding their power, so I can only assume they could feel there was more depth to the Saiyans. How deep that is, they clearly had no idea.



Slifer	Aug 1 2015, 06:30 PM Post #14
Posts: 3,488 Group: Member Member #10,141 Joined: September 7, 2013	Lazuli Aug 1 2015, 06:25 PM That's why I said they must not be able tell what they were hiding exactly, but they could feel it was more than what Piccolo was hiding. They were all hiding their power, so I can only assume they could feel there was more depth to the Saiyans. How deep that is, they clearly had no idea. It doesn't make sense, though. How can they sense a portion of everyone's full power but still somehow conclude 3 are significantly above everyone else? Why would their limits of what they can sense run deeper for Saiyans whose Base forms are supposedly weaker than Piccolo? Then you have Gohan going SSJ2 at the tournament. Why didn't they sense that? Edited by Slifer, Aug 1 2015, 06:31 PM.



+ Sandy Shore	Aug 1 2015, 06:48 PM Post #15
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	It doesn't make sense to take this as proof that the Saiyans are stronger than Piccolo in base, either. Neither of them are powered up, so whatever they're putting out means nothing. Even if they're all displaying a power of 5, and Piccolo is displaying a power of 3, it doesn't mean when they power up to their max (in base) it would still be stronger than Piccolo's max. They're clearly not very good at feeling power, as, like you say, they couldn't feel Gohan earlier. They couldn't tell Vegeta far out classed Pui Pui, and yet knew he out classed Piccolo, and this means something to us? Unless they were all powered up, this surely all means nothing but Toriyama's decision to leave them behind. I'm not giving a satisfactory answer, I know, but I don't think base Saiyans > Piccolo is a satisfactory conclusion, either.



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