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- How would you improve the Buu saga?
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| How would you improve the Buu saga?; Suggestions on how to improve the Buu arc. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 30 2015, 08:15 AM (1,330 Views) | |
| The Great Saiyaman | Jul 30 2015, 08:15 AM Post #1 |
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The Buu arc certainly feels less connected with the rest of DBZ, kinda like how the Picollo Jr. arc started out with a teenager Goku, all grown up and that. Its certainly guilty of it being an almost entirely Saiya-jin show - but, unlike GT and many of the TOEI movies, several of the characters are given something to do. But that said, after the Freeza and Cell arcs, which both had that finality feel about them (especially Freeza, which did feel like Dragonball's natural end more than anything), the Buu arc certainly felt like a new beginning, and indeed I liked that feel about it. But anyway. OK, here's my thoughts on to improve the arc. 1) The anime and manga imply that the Super Saiya-jin 3 form isn't as reliable or stable a transformation as the first two, thus why Goku, in his living body, couldn't really fully power up to it. I'd make it more explicit. 2) Tien would actually showcase the fruit of his stand-alone training, by assisting Gohan with his more spiritual power-up, which would help Gohan in his fight with Bootenks. 3) The biggest change, byt far, would occur once Goku returns to life. Specifically: * Goku would be absored by Super Buu, not Gohan. Then Gohan would rush to fuse with Vegeta, iterating pretty much the same reasoning as Goku did in the anime/manga, forming Vegethan, who'd look similarly to Vegitto. There are multiple reasons for this change: - After waking up from Majin Vegeta's sneak attack, Goku laments that neither he nor Gohan are alive to try fusion with, or to teach it to each other. This would an ironic spin to that lament. - Gohan was meant to be the "star" of this arc, and this is indicative by having him pretty much absent for much of it until the climactic fight, pretty much like how the Freeza and Cell arcs worked like (where Goku was absent for much of it, especially during the Freeza arc). However, Toryiama changed his mind after readers responded loudly about Goku's presence, especially after the SSJ3 form debut, and just like he did with giving Buu a more sinister, serious look, he relented with making Goku the hero again. Here, I suggest a compromise - Goku is still brought back to life, but he gets absorbed by Buu, after he sees him turn into SJJ3 as well, therefore securing him a "stable" SSJ3 power level. Gohan's fusion with Vegeta would at least give him something meatier to do other than getting himself absorbed like that. - Gohan and Vegeta were the two earliest Saiya-jins to face Buu, and them combined would woop his a***. Thats another irony, right there. Overall, the best reason is, to give Gohan something more to do in the proceedings. After 10 or so episodes of power up, its horribly anti-climacic to not have him present in the overall climax. * Once Vegethan gets absorbed, they find that Goku is "awake", but trapped in those big balls of larva in Buu's subconscious. Vegethan noticed that Buuku's power level fluxuated, even if for a brief second or two, and realized that the absorbed were alive. Gohan would be knocked unconscious, to allow for Vegeta to actually arrive at the level where Goku and the others are at. * Once all of them are released, they wouldn't be sleeping. Instead, they'd all wake up, and Gohan and Vegeta would describe briefly the fusion to them. Goku would ecstatically say how he "felt" their power, and wished he could've witnessed it. Goten and Trunks agree. Goku then asks where did the Potara earings go, and Gohan says that Vegeta destroys his inside Buu. Suddenly, Buu starts changing, just like in the anime. * When Kid Buu would try to destroy the Earth, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Piccolo would blast their respective attacks toward the big ball of death of Buu's. Goten and Trunks would fuse into SSJ3 Gotenks, and he'd also fire something. However, Buu sends out random death beams towards them, and one hits Piccolo in the head, killing him. This enrages Gotenks, who's killed by another beam. Goku, Vegeta and Gohan are disrought, and thus unable to do absolutely anything against Buu, and try to escape. However, as Goku grabs Mr. Satan and Dende, Gohan realizes the death ball is getting too close, and decides to create a momentary barrier to allow his dad to concentrate on a place to go to with his Instant Movement. However, as Goku and the others gain enough distance from the death ball, Gohan's barrier collapses, killing him. Then the Kaioshin arrives and takes them to the Kaioshin planet. Thats what I'd change for the arc, surely. I have some other Gohan-centric changes that go further than that, but the above were ones that I've held on to for a long time, and still think of them to this day. Goku letting Gohan and the others just die? Come on, Akira! Anyway, some further changes: In the case where Goku must live at the end: * Even though Vegeta fused with Gohan this time, this doesn't stop from admiting that Goku is better than him the same way. I always thought that Gohan, along with Master Roshi and Picollo, had a good understanding of Goku, so I don't think that scene would change. * When Goku and Vegeta would fail to go against Kid Buu, the latter would fire an explosive Final Flash, only to have a dead Gohan appear behind him and hit his spine, sending the beam elsewhere. Gohan explains that he was allowed to keep his body because he helped save the Earth against Cell and Garlic Jr. Thus, he starts fighting Kid Buu, and he overpowers him, until, at one critical point, he "spews" Fat Buu out, which somehow makes him even more ruthless, and overpowers Gohan badly - leaving Goku and Vegeta to lament that Gohan actually made Buu as strong as he was in his Super Buu state. During this time, Vegeta lays out his Genki Dama plan out to Goku and Dende as in the anime/manga. * Gohan is at death's door when Fat Buu takes over the fight and it goes on, as it did in the anime. * After Gohan and Vegeta return to life due to the Dragonballs, Vegeta attempts to head on fight Buu again, but because Kid Buu is stronger, he loses quicker. * Gohan actively protects the Genki Dama from being destroyed by Kid Buu, and after having returned to life, begins fighting Buu anew. He loses badly again, forcing Goku to admit that he wouldn't have possibly lasted against such ferocious attacks even in SSJ3 form full power. * When Satan's encouragement, as in the anime/manga prompts the Genki Dama to be as huge as it is, Goku yells for a battered Gohan to get out of the way. Mr. Satan helps carry Gohan out of the way this time. * When the Genki Dama proves to be too weak for Buu, as is Goku after having foughts Buu, its Gohan who has the idea to prompt Dende to tell the Porunga dragon to restore the power of "those who're fighting Buu in the Kaioshin Realm". The dragon complies, allowing Gohan and Vegeta to lent their energy to the Genki Dama, significantly increasing it to Goku's favor, who's also rejuvated enough to throw the Genki Dama with ease (just like the anime/manga in this case). *The rest of it is pretty much the same, but with Gohan returning to the Kami look-out with Goku and Vegeta. Now, if we could keep Goku dead... * All the above would occur, but with one significant exception: Because Gohan is so strong, with almost God-like power, the Porunga dragon couldn't restore him to life as all the others, thus Gohan would be fighting Buu as dead, still, but intent on helping his father gather power for the Genki Dama. * After Buu's death, Goku would then "exchange" his power with Gohan's, thus Goku would again be dead, while Gohan would live on. Goku does this, because of the two, Gohan is the one who still has his life ahead of him, and as a parting word to him, he tells him to keep training, cause you never know when the next Cell or Buu might show up, and how. Gohan has one final, heartfelt goodbye with Goku, while Vegeta also fares him well. * Kaioshin brings Fat Buu, Gohan and Vegeta back. Gohan does pretty much as Goku does in the anime/manga about Fat Buu. Don't know what the 10 years later story would be like in this case, though. Anyway, what do you think? |
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| Zippy_Skillz | Jul 30 2015, 10:34 AM Post #2 |
 
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Give Goku more screen time. Honestly if they wanted to make him the hero of the saga they could of atleast made it seem like a possibility. Only way later in do we learn old Kai can do that sacrificing thing, and it was just too much. All screen time went to Gotenks and Gohan yet at the end neither of them become the champ. |
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| The Great Saiyaman | Jul 30 2015, 10:53 AM Post #3 |
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See, if Goku was gonna be the hero of the arc, if Toyiama would have intended to do so when he started the arc, he would've made sure we wouldn't see Goku for a while before the end. Exactly how the Freeza and Cell arcs occured - Goku was out when Krillin, and company had their misadventures with Freeza's men and the Ginyu Force, and he was out of it when the Z warriors learned about the Androids 17, 18 and 16, and the whole Cell debacle. And was out of it with Gohan when Cell further evolved in power. So, if Goku was gonna be the hero, he'd have to absent for a lot of it, like Gohan was in the Buu arc, thus why Gohan should have at least had more screentime after Buutenks. |
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Jul 30 2015, 11:42 AM Post #4 |
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Goku and Gohan should have fought more. |
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| TheACE | Jul 30 2015, 06:43 PM Post #5 |
The Last GT Fighter
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No more shark jumping. Commit to one story line and stick with it! God the thing that really pissed me off was all the missed potential. Could you imagine the dynamic we could have had if the new Z-Team lead by GOHAN included Piccolo, Vegeta, Goten & Trunks, and Videl. I honestly I would have loved. To see Videl get some really cool action and maybe more just straight tag team stuff from Goten and Trunks would have been wild. Like really I wanted the Buu arc to be like Broly Second Coming. A cool adventure, badass fights, and a victory for the new team with the support of the old guard. In spirit only. It would have been a different direction to go, but it would be amazing. |
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| Raiken | Aug 3 2015, 11:35 PM Post #6 |
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I would have Gohan be the Main Hero, by structuring his power progression and fight with Super Buu differently. I would keep things largely the same up until after Goku arrives at the Supreme Kai's planet to meet with Gohan. The differences would come in that I would use no Elder Kai Plot element and the Z-Sword would not be broken. Instead, I would structure the plot so it is the Z-Sword it self that draws on the users Hidden Power and pulls it out. Gohan would continue training with the Z-Sword after Goku's arrival and eventually get the point where Goku is confident he could Super Buu after a display of his power. Gohan would not have any kind of "Ultimate" form, just that he would be as normal, except with 100% of his Hidden Power at his disposal. Lets say Gohan manages to master the Z-Sword and his Hidden power before things are looking dire with Gotenks and Super Buu, so Gohan isn't rushed to Earth. So Supreme Kai is like "Now that you've mastered your power with the Z-Sword, there is one last thing that I would show you, and would teach him a new technique. Gohan can then be in the final parts of learning that new technique when he is rushed off to earth and says goodbye to his farther because Gotenks and Piccolo are in a dire situation. Things play out somewhat similar from here. Kabito says farewell and generates a Gi for Gohan based on Goku's Gi, along with a Sash and Scabbard for the Z-Sword. Gohan then powers up into SSJ and flies off to meet Buu. The encounter happens very much the same, except the moment Gohan stands right in front of Buu's face, he powers up into SSJ2 and s*** gets real. Super Buu is managing to hold his own, but Gohan has the obvious advantage. It's not as much of a stomp as Ultimate Gohan was dishing out, but Gohan is obviously winning. Basically I'd have this Gohan weaker than Ultimate Gohan, but still stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, except no large Ki drain and no Fusion Time-Limit. Then after fighting for a while, Buu tricks and absorbs SSJ3 Gotenks and Piccolo like in the series. Now Gohan is at a big disadvantage. Before even realising it, Buu starts laying into Gohan, Gohan takes a few heavy hits and fails at countering any of Buu's attacks, but these skirmishes don't last long until Buu just says some s***, finishing with, "I'm going to finish this now." acting very cocky about his new found advantage. But once Buu gave Gohan the breather so he could talk smack, Gohan managed to have enough time gather what looks like Spirit Bomb energy. Super Buu will be all like "Ah yes, the Spirit Bomb. Piccolo knows all about this technique. It won't help you!". And Gohan will say, "This isn't the Spirit Bomb...". Gohan enters an augmented state where Spirit Energy is powering his Ki up. His aura takes on a wavy translucent white/light blue colour that emanates from the user, as opposed to the upright surging look of the SSJ2 aura, except it still has the lightning sparks. His hair also changes slightly, it's still the same colour, but it is as though it has a white/blue hue to it. So you can still see the light gold super saiyan hair colour underneath, but it's brightened up by the layer of White/Blue Spirit Energy. Gotenks Absorbed Super Buu and Spirit Energy SSJ2 Gohan are having a somewhat even fight. At first Gohan gets a few good hits in after he powers up into his new state. Then Gotenks Buu gets serious and has the advantage again, but it's somewhat even. The fight goes on for a bit longer until Gohan realises his Spirit Energy is getting weaker over time, so gradually, Buu is getting the advantage again. Then suddenly the fusion time for Gotenks runs out and he turns into Piccolo Buu. Gohan, still in a Spirit Energy SSJ2 starts 100% beating the s*** out of Buu in a series of epic clashes in an attempt to quickly incapacitate Buu so he could kill him. But while that is happening he looses his Spirit Energy Augmentation, and because Gohan is worn out and Buu still has Goten/Trunks/Piccolo, they are roughly even in power. Buu rips off his Piccolo shoulder pads because he doesn't like the style and just shows a bare chest like Super Buu. They fight a little longer but because Buu doesn't really tire, Gohan starts to loose and the scene looks dire and desperate. Eventually Gohan is at the point of defeat, and suddenly, Goku appears in SSJ3 and attacks Buu from behind by surprise, obliterating Buu into little fragments. Buu starts to regenerate as Goku and Gohan talk, apparently Supreme Kai has the power to grant Goku permission to go to earth for a short amount of time. They come up with a plan, Goku charges a Spirit Bomb to be as big as possibly can be, while Gohan gathers more Spirit Energy to augment himself. Because he is weakened and didn't gather as much Spirit Energy as before, Gohan fights with buu but is only around equal and manages to hold him off while Goku charges the Spirit Bomb. During this, Supreme Kai talks about the plan, he, Goku and Kabito discussed to revive everyone killed by Buu so they can contribute to Goku's Spirit Bomb. They manage that and with the help of Hercule, they manage to convince everyone on earth to give Goku's Spirit Bomb their energy. The Spirit Bomb grows huge after a while and all the Revived Z-Fighers & friends also pitch in their energy, because Vegeta committed Suicide via his own energy, for some unfortunate reason, he was not revived. Finally, Goku launches the Spirit Bomb at Buu and Gohan links with the Spirit Bomb with his Spirit Energy state and helps push it against Buu, and Gohan and Goku together finally defeat Buu. There would be more to the fight than I've described, Satan and Dende and the Kai's would have more scenes than I talked about and so on but yeah, that;s the general jist of it. Goku would return to other-world once again and Vegeta would stay dead, and have some Chapters in the epilogue about Goku managing to get Vegeta a body, since the Z-Fighters essentially saved the Galaxy and beyond. There's a small time-skip and an epilogue showing what Gohan and everyone else on earth now that everything has settled down, and the final part of the series shows Goku talking to some unknown person, going, "so... you managed it I see." Vegeta is standing there, "ready for a rematch, Kakaroto!" as a Super Saiyan 3". Then we have a narrated part of the ending, just showing a few panels showing what happened to everyone later on like after a couple of years. SERIES END I just realised I went on a massive fanfic rant, I at least think it's a viable fanfic that would be cool and make sense if the author decided to go down such a route. Edited by Raiken, Aug 3 2015, 11:38 PM.
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| superperfectnerd | Aug 4 2015, 01:33 AM Post #7 |
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Have Vegeta's sacrifice be the way Boo is defeated and also have Vegeta unable to return from hell. |
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| SuperSaiyan1993 | Aug 4 2015, 01:36 AM Post #8 |
Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans
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Vegeta's sacrifice kills Buu. Both Buu and Vegeta end up in HFIL. King Kai tells Goku that Buu is trying to break out of HFIL. They have to stop Buu and save Vegeta. |
| We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own. | |
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| TheACE | Aug 4 2015, 01:40 AM Post #9 |
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The Last GT Fighter
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@ Raiken. Fundamentally the same thing only replace Vegeta with Gohan at the end eh? Well you put some damn effort into that, two Kakashi's up! |
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| Raiken | Aug 4 2015, 10:51 AM Post #10 |
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Yeah essentially, I mean, I guess there could be ways to include all 3, Goku, Gohan and Vegeta. But I was unsure how it would play out. Especially since in relation to scaling: Spirit Augmentation Full Potential SSJ2 Gohan >> Full Potential SSJ2 Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks >>>> SSJ3 Goku >>>> SSJ2 Vegeta Vegeta really would have no place in the Final Battle, but giving him some pretty cool stuff in the epilgue would be neat like I described. It's a tricky one the Buu Saga and Akira clearly had the same issue, there was Goku, Vegeta and Gohan. He needed to decide if Goku or Gohan was going to be the main hero, and who was going to be the secondary Hero. I bet he complimented: Gohan "Main" Gotenks "Second Gohan "Main" on his own Gohan "Main", Goku "Second" Goku "Main", Gohan "Second" Goku "Main", Vegeta "Second" He settled on the last one. I just hate how Gohan was hyped to be the main hero throughout the Buu Saga s the one that will beat Buu, then they just scrapped him and went with Goku & Vegeta. And I don't get know where people think how that would be lame, instead of the Ultimate Warrior Power Up, a Full Potential SSJ2 Gohan wielding the Z-Sword would be the most badass thing ever, have his old personality on show from the Cell Games, except he's out to Kill Buu, not make him suffer. And we could still keep the Gotenks getting absorbed plot elements, just have it so Gohan is trained in some cool new technique to somewhat be able to match Buu. Or at least just hold out until the Fusion is over. |
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| superperfectnerd | Aug 4 2015, 02:46 PM Post #11 |
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I'd also remove ssj3 from existence. I think it's silly and have ssj2 remain Gohan's hidden power. Goku and Vegeta would remain ssj but still be a lot more powerful than they were during Cell. I'd scale back some of the ridiculous gaps in power that pop up as soon as Gotenks appears.
Edited by superperfectnerd, Aug 4 2015, 02:48 PM.
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| + Pointer | Aug 4 2015, 02:48 PM Post #12 |
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remove ssj3, give more credit to vegeta give more credit to gohan give less credit to the kids. Would redesign the fat majin buu. Would completely cut off the kid buu bulls***. Also no potara earrings |
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Aug 4 2015, 02:51 PM Post #13 |
 
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make goten non-existent |
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| + Kaboom | Aug 4 2015, 06:50 PM Post #14 |
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From both a "make sense of the power levels" perspective and a narrative one... I would take Super Saiyan 3 away from Gotenks. Have him still do everything he did, but with Super Saiyan 1. He'd be limited to whatever transformations the two individual kids have. This would... - Leave Super Saiyan 3 as something special and exclusive to Goku from his training in the next world. - Help Fusion be portrayed as something really special. The way things are now, Gotenks never (almost) accomplishes anything without Super Saiyan 3. This benefit would bleed over into Vegetto, too. - Prevent wanton power level bloating. Self-explanatory. - As an addition to that last point, it would make Toei's insistence that Goku was still the strongest all along at least possible and a little more viable. It would still probably be up to opinion, but at least both "sides" would have support. Edited by Kaboom, Aug 4 2015, 08:29 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Aug 4 2015, 07:24 PM Post #15 |
 
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I'd definitely keep Gotenks limited to Super Saiyan 2 at most. There was no reason for him to have Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta wouldn't be brought back and Goku would stay dead and stay in Otherworld once his time ran out on Earth. It would be up to Gohan and Gotenks to combat Boo, and it would take both of them with everything they've got to win, which would eliminate the unnecessary series of absorptions we got because Boo was so outclassed. Boo would simply be that ridiculously versed in magical bulls*** that he wouldn't necessarily need to be stronger in raw ki, nor would he need laughably broken regeneration. |
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