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My theory on Battle of the Gods / Super Saiyan God
Topic Started: Jul 12 2015, 03:25 PM (733 Views)
Anthonest
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The Penultimate Saiyan

After watching the movie for the third time ive finally come up with what i think about several of the things the movie suggests or is unclear about. Sorry for the long article but im one for always writing long posts, but for those of you who read the whole thing I would be interested in what kind of discussion you can come up with.

Anyways, my theory(s) consists of 3 main points, gods (What they are and god KI), and Power(How power can make you stronger than a god but not a god), Super Saiyan God and SSJ4(Why SSJG isnt really a God and SSJ4). These points won't necessarily flow into each other because im not making one specific claim here. I will also be speaking alot about Dragonball Super here.

1. Gods: What I believe a god is in DBZ is not a king of god that is for example a part of religions, they don't govern works and arnt all-knowing or all-good etc (Obviously) they have human flaws (Or rather "Biological flaws) and personalities, they do what they want but they come to fruition through means of balancing. King Kai stated that there are creators and destroyers for "balance" which leads me to believe they were manifested under these conditions as well, that the Universe literally spawned them for this use (I guess this makes them part of the laws of physics), meaning that they had a natural creation that they aren't made to be all powerful and can (and most likely will in DBS) be surpassed. Now, the mention about 'God Ki' in the movie has alot of people talking, some even to the point where they state "God Ki makes them invincible other than to other God Ki users" which there statement holds little to no factual basis, from what I have seen is that "God Ki" is literally just a buffed, or different type of Ki, that's why the Z fighters can't sense it. This also leads me to believe that regular Ki, with the right amount can surpass God Ki. I will use this point plenty of times though out the rest of this post. This leads into my second point.

2. Power:Now what makes a God? Obviously it must require some signs of semi or some omnipotence (For simplicity i will just say omnipotence) which can be attributed to being able to create things from nothing, or with pure energy, rather than just strength. I want to now explain why just having a high power level (or Ki) can make you a god in some sense (I don't mean the same kind of natural god that Beerus and Whis are), my reasoning for this is that throughout Dragonball Z you can see many characters spawn in various items, such as Janemba turning something into a sword, a better example is that in Dragonball GT Gogeta summoned some party streamers from his hands out of nothing (Perhaps Gogeta's power level can summon larger and larger objects than previous power levels) I don't mean that the Z fighters can create planets or anything but as there power increases perhaps eventually they could. And yes, I know GT isn't canon but it was just a clear example, they do similar things in DBZ many times. Why don't they create stuff more often and for better purposes you ask? I attribute this half in half to it being slightly redundant and them partially not knowing how, think about it; when they try and increase there power level and get stronger, its usually to fight of an enemy or to be able to destroy them in loose terms. When have you ever seen Goku train because he needed to be able to create a birthday present for Chi Chi? And on the half of them not knowing how to is that they have obviously never tried just to create something and when there in the heat of battle all sorts of things go through there heads, such as when Gogeta summoned party s*** out of no where to mess with Omega Shenron, im sure he didn't know exactly that he could do it, but he tried and it happened. This might seem a little weird for a DBZ argument but is it really so illogical that people with such power that they can project there power in beams and destroy entire planets or solar systems not be able to create? Because its not. At what power levels can they create more? Or what can they create at certain levels throughout the series? I don't know those answers, all I know is that they can.

3. Super Saiyan God: Now for my final point, I want to explain why Super Saiyan God isn't really a 'God'. As I explained above I believe Gods were spawned naturally to balance the Universe out, and I think those are the requirements for DBZ 'God', so with other Saiyans having to contribute power in order to transform you into a 'God' that really doesn't meet the criteria. Then why would Lord Beerus call Goku a God then? Most likely because he then harbored the so called 'God Ki' that doesn't mean hes a real god, because he held the strength of a god, that doesn't meet many of god like attributes that Beerus and Whis hold such as Immortality, a Universal role (Creator or destroyer) and certainly not having a time limit of his so called 'God' Form. I believe Super Saiyan God is just a name, and another point is that it isn't really a Super Saiyan transformation. Now I here you saying "Wow, now he has to be wrong about this one" and im not so sure about it myself either, but it seems kinda like it to me. SSJG requires 5 Saiyans to turn you into it, and according to DBZ it doesn't matter what power level you're at (Any 5 good Saiyans could turn any other Saiyan into a SSJG, no matter of power level). And this doesn't resemble any of the other transformations at all.

As for the SSJ4 its obviously stronger than the SSJG, my evidence for this is here. Even if this doesn't convince you humor me and assume that SSJ4 is stronger just for the sake of this argument. This claim may seem a bit off-point but oh well. Now the steps go SSJ < SSJ2 < SSJ3 < SSJG < SSJ4, but that makes a form that isn't like any of the others seem like the awkward middle child? My reasoning for this is that SSJ4 isn't a form that is 'meant' to be reached. Why you ask? Well with the first 3 forms there are extremely noticeable power differences (For example the hair gets longer with each form) but then its all like, what the f*** is happening with the fourth form? Well, I think that this is because the form harbors so much power the body really doesn't know what to do with the power, the first 3 levels the body just grows the hair out but when it can't just do that anymore the appearance gets skewed, the body just reacts to the power and grows red fur and keeps the black hair. Think of it kind of as some diseases that have the body produce more of one thing than another and it doesn't know what to do so there's all kinds of mutations, except, this isnt a disease. So maybe (but not likely) this point will end the whole argument that SSJG defenders say "But SSJG is a GOD so that means that SSJ4 cant be stronger than a GOD RIGHT?!?!?! OMG IS SO SIMPLE"

Thats pretty much it. But why make a point about a non cannon form? Because there's a possibility of SSJ4 appearing in DB Super (I know, im crazy as f***), why? Because Toriyama has asserted time after time that he absolutely loves the SSJ4 design, and obviously there's going to be something stronger than SSJG and SSJGSSJ in DB Super, because there always is (A rouge god is my prediction), they will probably be stronger than Beerus and Whis too because the villain always has to be "The strongest in the Universe" for a saga or two. So maybe Toriyama will bring the SSJ4 into DB Super as a final ultimate form. Well im finished.

On a final note the people who are making fun of the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Abbreviation (SSJGSSJ) by typing s*** up like SSJGSSJ4GG, or just smashing keys sgjshjsgjsgssjsgsjsgjsjshyssusheyshsjsush. Keep doing that s***. Its hilarious.
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Shazam
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its a forum, not a blog. and even bloggers write less...

get to the point. this is not the place to be a writer.
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Tinny
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Shazam
Jul 17 2015, 04:00 PM
its a forum, not a blog. and even bloggers write less...

get to the point. this is not the place to be a writer.
Oh please, I write similar blocks of text plenty times on here,. He can say what he wants.

Anthonest I like your take on God and ssj4 particularly, I don't really have much to add honestly, it makes more sense to me that gods, are rather specific, rather than just really tough guys, and I do like the idea of the creating things with a high enough ki..Like Gogeta
Edited by Tinny, Jul 17 2015, 05:22 PM.
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FutureProtagonist
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The one thing I have to take exception to is your sentiment that SSJ4 > SSJ God. It's not exactly that I'm disagreeing, but your premise is false. Super Saiyan 4 is not 10x Super Saiyan 3. It's just a plain old potential unlock. It's inferior to Elder Kaioshin's power up and it's inferior to Babidi's majin spell.
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Super Saiyan 4
The form which draws out the battle power which Saiyans posses out to the utmost limits is this, Super Saiyan 4!
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14812

In Battle of Gods, Goku says that becoming Super Saiyan God brought him to a level that was more powerful than he could have achieved through training, that alone should be enough to prove SSJ4 Goku (Battle of Gods) < SSJG Goku (Battle of Gods), but not necessarily SSJ4 < SSJG in general. If we're talking about Baby Arc Goku, we have to consider the massive power increases he obtained between EoZ and GT, as well as the insane power increases he achieved between leaving Earth and returning. He's hugely different from Battle of Gods Goku.
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Andro
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Shazam
Jul 17 2015, 04:00 PM
its a forum, not a blog. and even bloggers write less...

get to the point. this is not the place to be a writer.
He can write what he wants.
If you can't be bothered to read it, just stay out of it.
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TheACE
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Shazam
Jul 17 2015, 04:00 PM
its a forum, not a blog. and even bloggers write less...

get to the point. this is not the place to be a writer.
Hey, inappropriate! Don't hate because Anthonest got essay swagger. We're having an adult's conversation about Dragonball.

@ Future. Plain old? I always question that, especially given Goku's potential. Which should REALISTICALLY be like Raditz level, Bardock at best. Gohan's got massive potential, but the power is disproportionate. I think a 10 times multiplier makes sense. Given that otherwise Super Saiyan Four would just have the one set power level, and his performance, style and technique clearly improves and evolves everytime.

The quote says utmost limits. Really sounds less like "potential unlock" and a hell of a lot more like "Shift into Overdrive and push things to the max." God Mode is more ambiguous. Yeah it's God like power, but you can ask Kami, King Yemna, King Kai, Grand Kai and Kibito Kai how long being a god is relevant in DBZ. That and Super Saiyan Four cant technically be achieved through training either. Its relative to Blutz wave and Saiyan heritage and control. Conquering yourself inside and out really.

God Mode makes you a god and gives you special energy. But Four takes whatever the f*** you are and makes it f***ing amazingly more powerful than anything (Aside from Fused Evil Dragon Wizards or Fused Super Android Machine Mutant Hybrids)
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FutureProtagonist
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir

Quote:
 
Plain old? I always question that, especially given Goku's potential. Which should REALISTICALLY be like Raditz level, Bardock at best. Gohan's got massive potential, but the power is disproportionate. I think a 10 times multiplier makes sense. Given that otherwise Super Saiyan Four would just have the one set power level, and his performance, style and technique clearly improves and evolves everytime.
Potential changes in Dragon Ball. That may not make sense, but it does. Gohan/Krillin get their potential unlocked and they increases to over 10,000, then their potential increases and gets unlocked again, Vegeta has his power unlocked to beyond it's limits, but he's way stronger at the end of DBZ. Potential just means "current potential" not "absolute potential", which doesn't really exist.
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The quote says utmost limits. Really sounds less like "potential unlock" and a hell of a lot more like "Shift into Overdrive and push things to the max."
"Utmost limits" is still within "limits", compare that to those others that I mentioned:

Elder Kaioshin: “With my psychic powers, I can take the hidden power which anyone has, no matter how amazing a master they may be, and draw it wa~~ay, wa~~ay out above their limits. Ehehehehe…Have you ever heard of an ability like that?”
Babidi: “While I’m at it, I’ll draw out his hidden power to beyond [his? its?] limits!

It's not 10x SSJ3. There's no issue with it being a potential unlock, it's stated and works. 10x SSJ3 is completely made up.
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God Mode is more ambiguous. Yeah it's God like power, but you can ask Kami, King Yemna, King Kai, Grand Kai and Kibito Kai how long being a god is relevant in DBZ. That and Super Saiyan Four cant technically be achieved through training either. Its relative to Blutz wave and Saiyan heritage and control. Conquering yourself inside and out really.
The form can't be attained through training, but the power can.

Being a god isn't inherently relevant, but being a god with a lot of ki could be. Personally, I think SSJ God basically just converts the user's ki into God ki. God ki is more powerful in the same amount than regular ki (according to me), so the power shoots up. Those others you mentioned just don't have much of it.
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10x is rubbish. Use the material given, folks!
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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Eh, I think 10 times can work, but it takes some serious fine tuning to make that work.
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Northern Kaio and the Kaioshin can still be reached by Goku by Instant Transmission though via ki sensing. So do they have regular ki and God ki, while Whis and Birusu just have God ki? They're Gods right?
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