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PC gamers are getting screwed......!
Topic Started: Jun 26 2015, 09:43 AM (1,208 Views)
Daniel
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Go on PS3, 360, XB1 and PS4. Boot up any game and talk on the mic if you don't hear at least 3 squeakers, I'll give you $100. Do the same on PC, you might find one. Even on Call of Duty, where basically anyone on console is 12, you'll find less 12 year olds on PC maybe 15 year olds now. Regardless of age, in my own personal experience, 5 years on console, 2 on PC, the PC gaming community is far more mature. I can't even go into a console lobby without someone calling someone else's mom a lovely lady, I've seriously never ever been in a console lobby where their wasn't s*** talking occurring.


Let's say across Isohunt, Kickass and Piratebay, I'll take that same amount of 10,000 seeders and triple it, 10,000 for each site. Then I'l double each amount for people who don't seed. That's 20,000 across each site. 30,000+60,000=90,000. I'll even double that amount, that's 180,000, even tripled it doesn't hit 300,000.

But whatever let's go with 300,000, that's 23% of 1.3 million (assuming that value is correct), let's say no one out of those 300,000 buys the game legitimately, which is unlikely. That still leaves 77% of legitimate buyers and this is an AAA title which only has single player, so these numbers won't happen on most games. So a game company should say f*** you to the PC gaming community because 23% (most likely closer to 10% for most other games) doesn't buy the game? That's a stupid business decision.
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Meowth
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Pirating is a case of unprovable losses, you can't prove that the people stealing the game were going to buy it in the first place, regardless of sale or offers, it's an argument often used for no real reason "OMG PC GAMERS R TEH PIRATES YAAARRR!!", piracy is a whole other matter.
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+ Emmeth
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It's not like it's impossible to torrent console games and play them on your console anyway. People do that too.
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Steve
Jun 26 2015, 03:55 PM
Daniel
Jun 26 2015, 03:26 PM
Considering on average a console gamer is younger than his/her PC counterpart, they have even less money at their disposal and would illegally download even more games.
You know this how?

And bulls*** who torrents a game like Witcher 3 then buys it later? It's not really safe to torrent multiplayer games anyway since you usually get banned from the game completely once you play online.



Just because I pirate movies every now and then doesn't make me wrong. does that somehow change the fact that hundreds of thousands of people pirate games? No.

On Isohunt the top torrent for Witcher 3 yesterday had 10,000 seeders, which isn't counting all the people who download and don't seed(which is way higher than the amount of people who seed, always) it also isn't counting all the other torrents with thousands of seeders and downloaders.
And then it's also not counting other torrent sites.

Easily a few hundred thousand people at bare minimum Witcher 3 has sold 1.3 million(not sure when that statistic was recorded) on PC so if we were to call it 300,000 that's a huge chunk of money, not to mention games cost far much more money than a cinema ticket so initially each person is stealing like thrice as much and then even more if they also pirate the DLC.
Tell me that doesn't add up to a lot.


And also console players torrenting or not is irrelevant since that doesn't happen much, no denying that it wouldn't but it doesn't so yeah it's PC gamers stealing the most from the industry.
on consoles you can buy a used disc which gives the company no money, and i can guarantee you there are more people who buy used games than there are PC pirates
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Cersei Lannister
Jun 26 2015, 04:11 PM
Pirating is a case of unprovable losses, you can't prove that the people stealing the game were going to buy it in the first place, regardless of sale or offers, it's an argument often used for no real reason "OMG PC GAMERS R TEH PIRATES YAAARRR!!", piracy is a whole other matter.
Come on you don't need to play a game to know it's good or bad is it really that difficult to watch a 10 minute gameplay video on YouTube? I've done it tons of times and seen a game wasn't for me.

Not to mention that within a day at least people will have nonbiased reviews out saying that it's broken as f*** or boring.


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Go on PS3, 360, XB1 and PS4. Boot up any game and talk on the mic if you don't hear at least 3 squeakers, I'll give you $100. Do the same on PC, you might find one. Even on Call of Duty, where basically anyone on console is 12, you'll find less 12 year olds on PC maybe 15 year olds now


You say that like it's true. I've played against tons of squeakers on PC and way more dickbags.
It's not like there aren't plenty of 12 year olds that have their parents buy them a PC, lol.

Quote:
 
Let's say across Isohunt, Kickass and Piratebay, I'll take that same amount of 10,000 seeders and triple it, 10,000 for each site. Then I'l double each amount for people who don't seed. That's 20,000 across each site. 30,000+60,000=90,000. I'll even double that amount, that's 180,000, even tripled it doesn't hit 300,000.


I said 300,000 at bare minimum.

On IsoHunt alone the first page for Witcher 3 torrents listed by seeders has around 25-28 thousand seeders, again not counting those who downloaded and didn't seed.
There are hundreds of torrent sites so your numbers are a little bit off there.
Then you also have to include non English downloads. And then you further have to include more than just torrenting since people also sell games on discs too, not sure where they can be bought or find info about but they're going to add more to it obviously.

So yeah 300,000 bare minimum.


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That still leaves 77% of legitimate buyers

Compared to consoles nearly 100%, how is it a bad business decision to focus on them? Piracy on PC will happen no matter what they do so increasing console sales is the smart thing to do. Why waste time making the PC version of games better when it won't make people stop pirating?
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Steve
Jun 26 2015, 04:27 PM
Compared to consoles nearly 100%, how is it a bad business decision to focus on them? Piracy on PC will happen no matter what they do so increasing console sales is the smart thing to do. Why waste time making the PC version of games better when it won't make people stop pirating?
Again, you ignore unprovable losses, these people who pirate a game may not ever become paying customers, therefore, you can't prove lost income. It's an argument often used against gamers on PC, why should the PC suffer an inferior game because of a minority of people sealing?

Why make jeans with pockets if people still pickpocket?
Why are supermarket shelves left open? People still shoplift, we may as well lock all the supermarket goods up to prevent that.
Why do houses still have locks? I mean, burglary still exists, it hasn't stopped it!

Also 100% (or nearly) of console gamers get their game legit? That's a nice rock you are under! :=]:
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Wong Lee
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In regards to my view of the topic all I would like to say is that, this isn't a suprise. This has been happening since post 2004~05 gaming era. The quality of games has been degrading from about 2004~05. If you have been playing games at least from the mid or in the final years of the 90's you should have realised this like 10 years ago.

Gaming Industry although has grown a lot(and still is) in terms of its national/global revenue and investments, but, in terms of game quality, Gaming Industry reached it's highest echelons around 2004. After that it has been steadily declining. So, all in all, this is something new it's been happening from the past 10~11 years. Now, at least, this incident has opened some people eyes in realising the reality.
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Wong Lee
Jun 26 2015, 04:36 PM
In regards to my view of the topic all I would like to say is that, this isn't a suprise. This has been happening since post 2004~05 gaming era. The quality of games has been degrading from about 2004~05. If you have been playing games at least from the mid or in the final years of the 90's you should have realised this like 10 years ago.

Gaming Industry although has grown a lot(and still is) in terms of its national/global revenue and investments, but, in terms of game quality, Gaming Industry reached it's highest echelons around 2004. After that it has been steadily declining. So, all in all, this is something new it's been happening from the past 10~11 years. Now, at least, this incident has opened some people eyes in realising the reality.
says who, lol

back up your points with proof and/or take off the rose-tinted lenses
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Meowth
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It's probably going to come down to opinion on the era of games you like, in my opinion, PC games started to go down hill with paid DLC, mod lockdowns and some really poor releases. There was a day when developers made big expansion packs instead of lots of small DLC, mods were easy to come by and modding singleplayer wouldn't get you banned. As time moved on, smaller companies in the market can now compete a lot better than they used to for PC sales, the shops no longer really cater for PC games in boxes, as a lot is digital sales now, this withdrawal of the Batman game is progress, maybe future ports will get more love.
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Cersei Lannister
Jun 26 2015, 04:32 PM
Also 100% (or nearly) of console gamers get their game legit? That's a nice rock you are under! :=]:
Um digitally, yeah.

It's pretty damn hard to pirate console games since you have to totally avoid every subscription service and avoid having an account on the console or else you'll just get found out. Not like you can use something like Tor on a console is it?

Y'know, I love how PC gamers go on and on about how stupid console players are then try to pretend we all know how to and do pirate games as much as them on console, like what even is that. Torrenting is barely accessible on console, there is no arguing against that. Takes like 2 minutes to download and set up Bitorrent.


Also if you pirate a game and then buy it later on sale...still stealing you've got two copies for a fraction of the price of one. A movie is different since you're paying an extortionate cinema price just for a single viewing and a DVD is made to be used as many times as you want.


As for used games on console...the problem being? It might annoy developers but someone still paid for it to begin with also sharing games is something that's embraced anyway plus places that sell only used games get put out of business easily.
Not to mention that the solution to that is that some of the money people pay for used games can just be given to the publishers.

What's the solution to piracy? I'm sure companies would love to hear it.
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Meowth
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Steve
Jun 26 2015, 05:04 PM
What's the solution to piracy? I'm sure companies would love to hear it.
You keep avoiding the response to this, unprovable losses.

That is all to be said about piracy, there is no fix for it, people will do it regardless of the barriers put up, all the barriers do is hurt those who pay, the losses are unprovable because you don't know how many of those people would even buy it in the first place.

Also, console piracy exists, it's not hard, I remember back in the days of PS1 and PS2, consoles were "chipped" to read illegal disks, these days the consoles come with a nice port called a USB, handy little thing if you have a PC and a USB stick, to say it doesn't exist or very limited is a lie.

Eitherway, piracy is a whole other topic, not what this one was opened upon, I suggest we move back on track and someone can make a piracy thread or "PC VS CONSOLE OMG" but we are not on the track of this thread.
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Daniel
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There is no solution to piracy, exactly. You're contradicting yourself again. You said yourself their is no solution to piracy, people will always steal. If your logic is that companies should only cater to the demographic that doesn't steal, that would wipe out virtually every business.
Edited by Daniel, Jun 26 2015, 05:25 PM.
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Cersei Lannister
Jun 26 2015, 05:18 PM
You keep avoiding the response to this, unprovable losses.

That is all to be said about piracy, there is no fix for it, people will do it regardless of the barriers put up, all the barriers do is hurt those who pay, the losses are unprovable because you don't know how many of those people would even buy it in the first place.

Also, console piracy exists, it's not hard, I remember back in the days of PS1 and PS2, consoles were "chipped" to read illegal disks, these days the consoles come with a nice port called a USB, handy little thing if you have a PC and a USB stick, to say it doesn't exist or very limited is a lie.

Eitherway, piracy is a whole other topic, not what this one was opened upon, I suggest we move back on track and someone can make a piracy thread or "PC VS CONSOLE OMG" but we are not on the track of this thread.
You say that like there are no losses to be had at all, shoddy argument. "unprovable losses" isn't a defence at all piracy happens and there are losses from it.
You can't disprove that by saying it can't be proved any losses were made.


And still, why should developers be motivated to put tons of effort in to PC ports?

Key thing to not there is "back in the day" nowhere near as simple now.
And yeah that just isn't true because there's software that limits what you can do with a USB, the PS4 only just recently added the capability to play music from USB's everything else was blocked.

Not to mention again you can't do that and have an account without getting found out.

Why on Earth would many people who have a PC download console games? Unless it was an exclusive why would they not take the much safer option of playing the pirated PC version.


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There is no solution to piracy, exactly. You're contradicting yourself again. You said yourself their is no solution to piracy, people will always steal. If your logic is that companies should only cater to the demographic that doesn't steal, that would wipe out virtually every business.

Except the console one ;)


Anyway yeah every business is going to find ways to screw the people who screw it, if people looked at gameplay videos to decide if they wanted a game or not instead of stealing it maybe the huge gains from that would motivate them to optimize PC ports properly.

Sucks for people who play legit but how many people pay full price for games on Steam etc anyway? I've certainly seen way more people say they won't even buy a game until it has a 25% sale, paying full price for a game is something idiot peasant console players do amirite?
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Meowth
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Thread closed.

You were warned of this outcome.
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