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| Shang Tsung vs Azula | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 19 2015, 12:37 AM (633 Views) | |
| lazerbem | Jun 19 2015, 12:37 AM Post #1 |
 
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Shang Tsung can't soul rip but he can still transform as he wishes. Shang Tsung is young and fully fed, Azula is in her prime. |
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| Tinny | Jun 19 2015, 03:43 AM Post #2 |
 
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Well, one thing I can say is that Azula has a large advantage in speed, able to fly using her fire bending to propel herself forward, she's a prodigy in fire bending, creating blue, more intense flames with less effort on her part than most fire benders, and just plain being a very effective fighter. In addition her lightning technique, already bring hard to do, is very well controlled, she has been able to blind Zuko, and almost permanently kill the avatar with just one strike, has it not been for Katara's intervention. Over all she's a very formidable fighter, and more to that she's very cunning, managing to pretty much take control of the Earth Kingdom capital by subverting the secret police onto her side from both the king and the leader, according to her rather easily. She's very proficient in combat against both multiple opponents and single combat. And admittedly I can see her ferrying caught off guard with a few abilities of his bit I also see her adapting rather quickly to them. Right now I'm favoring her to win this the majority of the time, but I'm also rather ignorant on Shang Tsung's capabilities, so if someone could fill me in on that that'd be pretty nice. |
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| lazerbem | Jun 19 2015, 03:53 AM Post #3 |
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Shang Tsung is vastly more skilled, having absorbed the knowledge of many skilled fighters over the years and being considered a powerful foe for Liu Kang, someone who is pretty much the most skilled a guy can get. Shang Tsung is also a bullet timer based off of scaling from Reptile but even if he himself isn't, he can just transform into Reptile when he needs to dodge. In any case, Azula is not faster than him(she's got no bullet timing feats barring lightning, which is slow as molasses in the Avatar verse). It's true Azula's more mobile, but she's not faster than him. Shang Tsung is also a strategist at the very least on par with her, given his many plans over the years as well as surviving Shao Kahn for the most part. Shang Tsung's magic may look firey, but I find it debtable if Azula can control it. On the other hand, Shang Tsung has survived lightning blasts from Raiden, so we know he has some heat resistance Edited by lazerbem, Jun 19 2015, 03:53 AM.
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| TheACE | Jun 19 2015, 04:07 AM Post #4 |
The Last GT Fighter
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Real question. Does he have a response to lightning, one. Two, why would Avatar lightning be slower than regular lightning? Is the frequency lower? Is the atmosphere less polarized? Is the electric potential lower? Is the equalization impeded? Is the electron current smaller? Less plasma? Some one please tell me what the actual difference is. At this point, Azula's lightning is no different from Raiden's. And her fire is no different from Lu Kang's. In fact, since its a blue flame, its probably hotter. Unless the actual laws of kinetic energy are different (DARE you to find me a quote that proves it is) then I'm willing to say Azula can hurt Shang Tsung. And since its Mortal Kombat, he HAS to be vulnerable. If he is, he can be killed. |
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| Tinny | Jun 19 2015, 04:38 AM Post #5 |
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Admittedly I should have specified mobility, keep forgetting speed in a fights usually talks about reaction time. Btw when did that feat happen with reptile anyway? I keep trying to find it but I'm coming up with nothing. Specific game/comic would really help here. And while that is debatable, in any case there's a skull coming out and Azula can't block that with fire bending, though I suppose destroying it before it reaches her is an idea. Also, this may be stretching a bit but, his win/lose record in the games has been pretty terrible from a glance at the story, only fighting Liu Kang and losing every time, and also that one time he double teamed him, and even then he was the weaker of the two, leading to Quan Chi once they fought. And though he nearly got to the top of the pyramid in Armageddon, he once again loses and dies to, once again, Liu Kang, though one could argue he's fighting the greatest fighter, he's never even fought anyone else in the first timeline, and his record in the new timeline doesn't look more impressive. Granted this could be a case like Raditz, where he it's incredibly powerful even while mocked. While I may be wrong, it seems Shang Tsung put more into his intelligence than his fighting technique, though he's certainly a survivor, I do not think he's a good enough fighter for Azula, not with his own form anyway. Also while he had heat resistance sure, that is undone by Azula's strength in fire bending, her fire burns much hotter and hey lightning can be performed with far more percussion. And even then Shang Tsung got pretty flattened whenever the lightning hit him, if Azula lands one, she's not going to let him get up. And really the big one I need to ask is how Tsung is actually gonna kill her, without soul stealing. Also how exactly dies Raiden's lightning work? It seems he has to charge it up to do more damage, eventually culminating in an explosion. And yeah, I'm not quite aware how lightning is slower in Avatar, I suppose I'll take your word, but again I'd like you to tell me where you found that exactly. All in all, from everything I've read and watched so far tells Shang Tsung doesn't have a really reliable way of killing her, and for all his years of experience... I'm uncertain if any of it has been used to bolster his own style. As for the shape changing feat, solving that would likely turn this into an mk gauntlet, so I'll be avoiding That for this post. That said I don't believe this would be a stomp, Shang Tsung will certainly put up a great fight, probably one of the tightest in Azula's life, and will probably find a way to survive even if he loses, whether it be escape or deception. Again assuming he can't soul steal, I think everything goes out the window with that, and shape changing probably changes everything as well. P.S. What exactly does fully fed mean? Is that souls? I wasn't aware he had a limit aside from having to eat them to not age and die. Spoiler: click to toggle Edit: Sorry for the long rambly post. 
Edited by Tinny, Jun 19 2015, 02:11 PM.
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| Darker | Jun 19 2015, 10:38 AM Post #6 |
The Lord of the Dark
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Shang Tsung's flaming skulls give him the win. Just kidding, but Azula still loses. She's way less skilled and has fought less powerful beings in comparison. Young Shang Tsung is quite cocky, but not as much as Azula, so that gives him the edge, because Azula will not get serious and Shang in the end will, and Shang Tsung has a huge amount of techniques and magic abilities. |
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| + Pointer | Jun 19 2015, 11:12 AM Post #7 |
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Azula wins this with Lightning |
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| Dbzk1999 | Jun 19 2015, 12:45 PM Post #8 |
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I forgot, does Azula have any feats that compare to shooting down a military helicopter? |
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| lazerbem | Jun 19 2015, 01:10 PM Post #9 |
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Does surviving Raiden's lightning and getting up to fight him count?
The thing is that arrows are a threat in Avatar and have tagged people on multiple occasions. Raiden's lightning works on people who dodge bullets. You see the issue here.
Liu Kang's flames are made from his chi, they aren't actual fire. When he's a Revenant, his fireballs turn into black and red orbs of doom since his chi is corrupted.
Arrows have tagged people in the Avatar verse, Azula's lightning has been dodged several times, the conclusion from this is that her lightning is really slow. Even if it isn't, Shang Tsung has taken lightning to the face before and been mostly okay
Stryker's chapter in MK9, very first cutscene. Stryker and Kabal are up on a roof and then Reptile crawls up the building, dodging their bullets as he does so. He also makes an acid shield before their bullets can hit him
Shinnok's win/loss record is pretty terrible as well, but he's a life wiping threat. Win/loss record isn't anything to go by and losing to Liu Kang isn't shameful when Liu Kang has smashed rubies with his punches, punched a hole through Shao Kahn(albeit him restricted by the tournament), and has fireballs that are pretty much equivalent to a grenade going off in your face. . He can still take the intelligence of other fighters, and he has plenty to draw on
The same could be said for Shang Tsung, but his magic allows more variety than Azula's. If worse comes to worst, he could just mimic Azula with his transformation ability and start redirecting her lightning(he can transform without absorbing your soul as seen with Kung Lao in Shaolin Monks)
He could punch her in the face, that would probably work. Avatar people are glass cannons in general, a single punch or magic blast from him would probably crush her
He certainly can charge it to focus his attacks, but he can just quickfire it as well. Quickfiring is more of a "get off me" attack though, as seen when he throws Shinnok off of him in Armageddon
Arrows are still a threat to the main cast. The fact that Aang has been tagged by arrows in the past and that Sokka has dodged Azula's flames are the problem here. There aren't a whole lot of comparative feats in Avatar, but that lightning is not lightning speed
Well like I said, if he can get up close, a single punch is really all it takes. Or using the giant magic cobra that screwed Raiden over
Strongest Shang Tsung basically, or Armageddon Shang Tsung Edited by lazerbem, Jun 19 2015, 01:31 PM.
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| TheACE | Jun 19 2015, 06:17 PM Post #10 |
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1. Arrows, threat in the verse? Sure. They are to normal people in the DBZ verse, but we're not talking about normal, we're talking heroes. 2. response to lightning. Yeah I'll count it. Its an endurance thing, but the lightning certainly won't be a kill shot, so you're 100% right there. 3. Technically bending is from Chi too, and fire benders do create their own flames. So, same concept. Probably slightly different execution, but unless its explicitly magic, that sounds like a martial art, just like Fire Bending. 4. Azula has never gotten tagged by an arrow, her lightning has been deflected by fighters of her caliber, and when she got Aang that looked pretty instant. Aside from cinematic effect, I'm not seeing a difference. Until other wise proven that the physics are different, that's real lightning and it moves at the same speed. Besides, ita not like Azula exclusively fights master martial artists who know how to anticipate and predict and opponent's moves. Give the Gaang some credit. They're badass. 5. Acid shield is reasonable. I'm sure it'll work very well against Azula. No complaints. 6. In a fight, winning or losing can be the difference between living or dying. And Azula is similar enough to Liu Kang that I'm willing to believe that she has a special edge in some cases. 7. As does Azula. She showed that she's very formidable without her bending on the Day of Black Sun, replicating Ty Lee's speed and agility without fire enhancements. So I'm sure she's got enough in her repitoire to keep him on edge. 8. Azula doesn't know lightning redirection. Only Zuko, Sang and Iroh can do that (In canon) so he couldn't copy a technique from her that she doesn't know. 9 that I agree with, a direct physical attack might do it. But Azula is really hard to get a solid hit on. I mean, has anyone aside from Ty Lee EVER gotten a clean shot on Azula? 10. Sure, game mechanics. Raiden's lightning is lightning. No complaints. 11. Yes it is. Its lightning. Those are electrons moving from one level to another to discharge a current. That's how lightning works, positive separating from negative, free flowing electrons. That's how that works, same stuff. Sure Aang has been hit by an arrow, but that's a pretty low end sort of feat to hold on to (Kinda like a certain cave-in we've discussed.) and again, Azula's never been tagged, so that's a tough one to go off of. But seriously, "That lightning isn't lightning speed." Is like watching a cheetah run and saying "That cheetah isn't cheetah speed." 12.we've addressed this. Not saying this is a stomp either way, this'd be a great fight. But I'm willing to think that Azula is going to do a bit better than she gets credit for. Shang Tsung has maybe a 10% edge, 12 for physical strength. But Azula is capable of putting him down. |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Jun 19 2015, 06:45 PM Post #11 |
魔王子
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Hmm, I don't know. Azula has shown tremendous skill, and she was never truly beaten at her best in the Avatar series, so who's to say how good a martial artist she really is? I unfortunately do not have a whole lot to go off of with Shang Tsung. All I know is that he's a skilled, and very powerful sorcerer that can rely on the abilities of others. Hmm, I feel Azula could most certainly outsmart him considering she's an expert tactician. I mean, she was able to turn the Dai Li against their leader in order to take control of the f***ing Earth kingdom... Yeah, I'm gonna give this one to Azula. |
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| Tinny | Jun 19 2015, 08:29 PM Post #12 |
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I wouldn't count it in single combat, as he was definitely flattened for a bit, and the only reason the fight didn't end there was because it was 2v1, Raiden couldn't actually focus one down, and in this case Azula doesn't have to deal with anyone else coming to take her down, and thus could probably do a really good bit of damage if he gets hit and falls like he did in his match against Raiden.
This can also apply to fire bending, as it's not manipulated from the environment like most bending, but from the benders chi and body.
Thank you.
Fair enough, though it remains that we've never really seen him fight successfully, which does make him look weaker. That said, Krillin is the most powerful human and plenty of people think he's a walking.
Fair enough, though the trick is still getting close, she's more mobile and her moves generally work well at a range.
Wait a minute, and he gains the abilities despite not having any of their soul? ... Why doesn't he just transform into Raiden and lightning whoever he fights? Also Ace has commented on Azula's ability with lightning. But honestly what are the limits of this shape shifting in regards to abilities in it and what he can change into.
Thank you again.
Wait what? When did he do that? Why can't I do that in 9? That sounds like something you should do in game. But really I think I need more info on Shang Tsung's shape shifting, because if he can just up and become the God of thunder, then... He's not nearly as clever as I thought, not in combat anyway. Unrelated but this is a pretty nice match up, at last to debate in my opinion. How do you come up with these? Not saying this is a stomp either way, this'd be a great fight.
Agreed, this would probably look to be an amazing fight. Edited by Tinny, Jun 19 2015, 08:34 PM.
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| lazerbem | Jun 19 2015, 10:58 PM Post #13 |
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I refer to Aang getting hit by one. True, I'm not convinced he was Azula tier at the time when he was shot, but the point is that arrows are still a contextual threat to many benders
That's true. In any case, Shang Tsung has actually never been seen getting hit by one of Liu Kang's fireballs in canon(it might have happened, but we've never seen it) so the comparison doesn't mean much. And I am pretty sure that Shang Tsung's magic flame skulls can't be controlled by Azula
Liu Kang has durability, she does not. I'm also going to peg Liu Kang as more skilled, given his status as pretty much the best out of all the mortal fighters
Shang can transform into a teleporter and hit her like that
Are there any better showings though? The problem is that we need other things to compare their speed to and the arrow is the best one. For what it's worth, Sokka has dodged a couple of Azula's attacks as well
Definitely. I was considering Quan Chi, but I think he might result in an overkill(he has shown the ability to make shields against Raiden's lightning and his necromancy is a considerable edge)
Shang's shapeshifting is....weird. He's transformed into people who he hasn't even touched, most notably in Shaolin Monks where he transforms into various characters despite having not absorbed any of their souls He also destroys an island in this video, but you could make an argument that since it's his island in the first place, he holds ultimate power over it
At 1:50, Shang Tsung forms a giant fire snake to ko Raiden. Granted, Quan Chi had used his telekinesis to hold Raiden in place, but it still looks like quite the formidable attack. Anyway, maybe Shang Tsung can't transform into gods or other such divine beings? I'm really not sure. I guess he doesn't transform vs Liu Kang because he's typically even with Liu Kang and to transform into him wouldn't do much(better to just use it as a surprise attack), but as to why he doesn't transform vs Quan Chi, I have no idea. I guess Quan Chi might be able to negate his magic or something, but it's not really well explained.
Thank you, and I just wanted a fight for Shang Tsung and it occured to me that his fire serpent looked a lot like fire bending |
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