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Videl vs. Sakura Haruno
Topic Started: Jun 10 2015, 04:11 PM (3,851 Views)
DBZAOTA482
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How would Videl at her best fare against the flat-chested cherry blossom at part I?

BONUS SCENARIO : If Sakura loses have her part II self fight.

BONUS SCENARIO #2: If either Sakura wins have her fight Chi-Chi

BONUS SCENARIO #3: If Sakura wins against Chi-Chi have her fight #18 (Lazuli)
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魔王子

Steve
Jun 12 2015, 12:46 AM
I think he meant generally that just can't be applied to a punch.


Also worth noting that Vegeta and Goku fighting was cracking rocks in the distance...so if they can "concentrate" the damage punches do like energy blasts why didn't they?

Not to mention where does the energy go when someone tanks a hit? Like when Trunks slashes at 18 and the sword broke...how could he possibly control what happens to something no longer even attached to him(if you want to go with the whole he puts Ki in it thing)

Assuming he'd be planet level or whatever at that point that'd be a mighty big impact but it wasn't.
Buuuuuuuuuuuut Goku has been able to damage to someone who can survive a planet blowing up in his face so we've got some conflict here. Ki enhanced punches may not create massive shockwaves because it's metaphysical. Honestly, though, Dragon Ball isn't exactly the most scientifically accurate series out there.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jun 12 2015, 01:42 PM.
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Steve
Jun 12 2015, 01:20 PM
Not really because a fist is a solid object not a metaphysical energy.


Why is this control present when people lose their s***? Like Gohan when he headbutted Raditz how the heck did he control the impact from that given that he was like four? Or Goku right after he got a x50 boost and wasn't totally himself.
And? There physical strength is ki as well.

That Gohan did not have any sort of incredible physical strength back there, we are talking about Buu Arc high tiers. SSJ Goku and Frieza's fight was sending shockwaves through the planet IIRC and also if that's not the case then Base Goku Namek Arc > SSJ Goku Namek Arc which makes zero sense.

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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 01:29 AM
TheACE
Jun 11 2015, 01:26 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 01:20 AM
FutureProtagonist
Jun 11 2015, 12:41 AM
Quote:
 
Uh, can she punch with enough force to destroy planets?
Does anyone in DBZ?

Sakura can create massive craters, easily comparable to DBZ characters.
Sigh... They can take the force of an attack with enough condensed energy to destroy planets. Sakura's punch does not have enough force behind it to destroy planets, therefore she ain't doing anything to 18. The reason characters in this franchise can't destroy planets with their bear hands is because they have to expand their energy to cover the object they are trying to destroy.
Wait can't Goku punch out planets by the end of Z? I'm pretty sure he punched through King Kai's planet.
Kaio's planet is really small though. I kinda doubt he could do that to Earth.
It is dense though


Yet the size difference is an issue

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Mihawk
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 12 2015, 01:31 PM
Steve
Jun 12 2015, 12:46 AM
I think he meant generally that just can't be applied to a punch.


Also worth noting that Vegeta and Goku fighting was cracking rocks in the distance...so if they can "concentrate" the damage punches do like energy blasts why didn't they?

Not to mention where does the energy go when someone tanks a hit? Like when Trunks slashes at 18 and the sword broke...how could he possibly control what happens to something no longer even attached to him(if you want to go with the whole he puts Ki in it thing)

Assuming he'd be planet level or whatever at that point that'd be a mighty big impact but it wasn't.
Buuuuuuuuuuuut Goku has been able to damage to someone who can survive a planet blowing up in his face so we've got some conflict here. Ki enhanced punches may not create massive shockwaves because it's metaphysical. Honestly, though, Dragon Ball isn't exactly the most scientifically accurate series out there.
Regardless the consistent pattern is that they get hurt by physical objects way more heavily than they should if their physical durability was really on par with their ki durability. They still get bruised by rocks, hell they can get KO'd by rocks (RoF movie), etc implying a level of physical durability nowhere near the ki one. The evidence is largely one sided.

Freeza being in bits in pieces seems puts a hole in it? But let's say Freeza can survive anything that doesn't vaporize him as Trunks did kind of like Cell can. Let's say Trunks vaporized him simply so someone wouldn't try to bring him back. Then the fact that he's still bits and pieces after the planet explosion isn't really relevant because there are still similar chunks of rock floating around too from the original planet. Does that mean chunks of rock >> planet explosion? Nope.

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Dexter Morgan
Jun 12 2015, 01:51 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 01:29 AM
TheACE
Jun 11 2015, 01:26 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 01:20 AM
FutureProtagonist
Jun 11 2015, 12:41 AM
Quote:
 
Uh, can she punch with enough force to destroy planets?
Does anyone in DBZ?

Sakura can create massive craters, easily comparable to DBZ characters.
Sigh... They can take the force of an attack with enough condensed energy to destroy planets. Sakura's punch does not have enough force behind it to destroy planets, therefore she ain't doing anything to 18. The reason characters in this franchise can't destroy planets with their bear hands is because they have to expand their energy to cover the object they are trying to destroy.
Wait can't Goku punch out planets by the end of Z? I'm pretty sure he punched through King Kai's planet.
Kaio's planet is really small though. I kinda doubt he could do that to Earth.
It is dense though


Yet the size difference is an issue
Size doesn't matter my friend, that's already been said the material that he punches through and puts a whole on it matters. Density determines the level of the feat, and King Kai's plamet has the density of more than the sun mass.
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Videl would godstomp her young form. Sakura LOLstomps afterwards.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Yeah explosions don't follow some linear path of destruction there's always debris that "survives" because explosions aren't an absolute power or anything.

It's not like they make a perfect sphere of destruction like when Vegeta blew himself up. Frieza basically survived the outside of an explosion and that nearly killed him it's not like 100% of the energy was directed to him as though he was in the middle of the planet.

He got damaged and pushed away by the shockwaves, debris and explosion itself that is all.


It's still impressive but were he not a nonsensical species he'd be very very dead.
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Fiat Lux
Jun 12 2015, 02:21 PM
Regardless the consistent pattern is that they get hurt by physical objects way more heavily than they should if their physical durability was really on par with their ki durability. They still get bruised by rocks, hell they can get KO'd by rocks (RoF movie), etc implying a level of physical durability nowhere near the ki one. The evidence is largely one sided.

Freeza being in bits in pieces seems puts a hole in it? But let's say Freeza can survive anything that doesn't vaporize him as Trunks did kind of like Cell can. Let's say Trunks vaporized him simply so someone wouldn't try to bring him back. Then the fact that he's still bits and pieces after the planet explosion isn't really relevant because there are still similar chunks of rock floating around too from the original planet. Does that mean chunks of rock >> planet explosion? Nope.
I'm sorry, but when has that happened? show me instances from the manga where they have taken damage from being flung into cliffs and mountains. And who the heck got K.O.ed by rocks in Resurrection F? Freeza wasn't in bits and pieces though If that were the case, his mechanized self would be almost completely robotic, but it's not:
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You also have to remember his legs, and one of his arms were removed by the Kienzan. You also have to remember that Freeza had every intention of walking away from the fight after Namek exploded in Goku's face.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Yeah 'cause he can fly away in space it's not like he said he was going to stand there and let the blast hit him.

If he can tank that then why did it very nearly destroy him? That doesn't really mean anything.
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Steve
Jun 12 2015, 03:06 PM
Yeah 'cause he can fly away in space it's not like he said he was going to stand there and let the blast hit him.

If he can tank that then why did it very nearly destroy him? That doesn't really mean anything.
Wrong:
Quote:
 
Chapter: 320 (DBZ 126), P9.2
Context: after it turns out Planet Namek didn’t blow up
Freeza: “Chih…! Did I suppress my power too much…?!”
Goku: “It’s because you were afraid of getting caught up in the planet’s explosion yourself…You screwed up. Though thanks to that, I survived…”

It didn't very nearly destroy him, you also have to remember, Freeza was already almost killed by the Kienzan and Goku's blast.
And what of Cell, he clearly didn't care whether the Earth blew up with him on it:
Quote:
 
Chapter: 399 (DBZ 205), P10.7, P11.3
Context: after Goku teleports out of the way of Cell's Kamehameha
Goku: “I want to ask something too…If I hadn’t jumped up into the sky, would you have fired your Kamehameha like that and destroyed the Earth…?”
[ ]
Cell: “But I’ll tell you this…I’d think nothing of destroying the Earth. It would just shorten my fun…”

Oh yeah, and don't forget Resurrection F. Beerus and Whis state Freeza most likely survived Earth's destruction.
I also think you're underestimating how much energy an exploding planet produces.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jun 12 2015, 03:18 PM.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

But it did a load of damage and took off a large portion of his head I'd say that's nearly kill though who knows maybe his species can survive as floating heads...

Those quotes don't really help your case if Goku is right Frieza simply wasn't certain he could escape in time.
Cell certainly could obviously he's way faster.

Your overestimating how much of that energy hit Frieza.

An explosion goes outwards in all directions it wouldn't gravitate towards Frieza think of the surface area of Namek...how big is Frieza compared to that?

He wouldn't even have touched 1% of the explosion or the overall landmass flying around and it still messed him up.

Also Cell wouldn't need to worry since if some of Frieza's body remained then the same would happen with Cell only he would regenerate so he need not worry.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 12 2015, 02:52 PM
Fiat Lux
Jun 12 2015, 02:21 PM
Regardless the consistent pattern is that they get hurt by physical objects way more heavily than they should if their physical durability was really on par with their ki durability. They still get bruised by rocks, hell they can get KO'd by rocks (RoF movie), etc implying a level of physical durability nowhere near the ki one. The evidence is largely one sided.

Freeza being in bits in pieces seems puts a hole in it? But let's say Freeza can survive anything that doesn't vaporize him as Trunks did kind of like Cell can. Let's say Trunks vaporized him simply so someone wouldn't try to bring him back. Then the fact that he's still bits and pieces after the planet explosion isn't really relevant because there are still similar chunks of rock floating around too from the original planet. Does that mean chunks of rock >> planet explosion? Nope.
I'm sorry, but when has that happened? show me instances from the manga where they have taken damage from being flung into cliffs and mountains. And who the heck got K.O.ed by rocks in Resurrection F? Freeza wasn't in bits and pieces though If that were the case, his mechanized self would be almost completely robotic, but it's not:
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You also have to remember his legs, and one of his arms were removed by the Kienzan. You also have to remember that Freeza had every intention of walking away from the fight after Namek exploded in Goku's face.
Spoiler: click to toggle


The great moon level durability has lower physical density than the floor under him. Easily bruised by being knocked into it.

Do you need more? Because all I had to do was open the first fight in DBZ to find this.

Freeza's minions were KO'd by rocks. Naturally all of them should be able to tank any blast fired in DB.

Quote:
 
Freeza wasn't in bits and pieces though If that were the case, his mechanized self would be almost completely robotic, but it's not:

Hmm so only the anime showed him in bits and pieces? I agree with the anime. Anyway the mechanical parts are most likely parts that couldn't be found/were vaporized and hand to be replaced.

Quote:
 
You also have to remember his legs, and one of his arms were removed by the Kienzan. You also have to remember that Freeza had every intention of walking away from the fight after Namek exploded in Goku's face.

Both of these things help my argument. Freeza can live just about anything that doesn't vaporize him as long as someone is there to piece him back together. That's why he was so confident and that's why Trunks had to vaporize him. Just living through a planet's explosion doesn't mean much if you weren't at the epicenter of the blast. After a planet's explosion you see large chunks of rock floating around that didn't take the full blunt of the blast, Freeza is just another one of these.

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Steve
Jun 12 2015, 03:26 PM
But it did a load of damage and took off a large portion of his head I'd say that's nearly kill though who knows maybe his species can survive as floating heads...

Those quotes don't really help your case if Goku is right Frieza simply wasn't certain he could escape in time.
Cell certainly could obviously he's way faster.

Your overestimating how much of that energy hit Frieza.

An explosion goes outwards in all directions it wouldn't gravitate towards Frieza think of the surface area of Namek...how big is Frieza compared to that?

He wouldn't even have touched 1% of the explosion or the overall landmass flying around and it still messed him up.

Also Cell wouldn't need to worry since if some of Frieza's body remained then the same would happen with Cell only he would regenerate so he need not worry.
Or Goku's blast did that...

In what way do they not help? Freeza intended on destroying the planet with himself on it, same goes for Cell. Freeza actually did it in Resurrection F.

I'm really not. He's clearly not being hit by all the energy, but he's till being hit by a massive amount of energy.

I'm aware Cell has Freeza cells, but your missing the point. I'm not arguing whether the entirety of the case can tank a planet's destruction. I'm saying Goku can harm Cell and Freeza with punches, even though they can tank an incredible amount of force.

Also, I think we've been going about this all wrong. It's not that they put force enough to destroy entire planets behind his punches, it's that he has enough condensed energy to destroy planets behind his punches, which allow him to go through the Ki the user augments their body with.
Fiat Lux
 
Spoiler: click to toggle


The great moon level durability has lower physical density than the floor under him. Easily bruised by being knocked into it.

Do you need more? Because all I had to do was open the first fight in DBZ to find this.

Freeza's minions were KO'd by rocks. Naturally all of them should be able to tank any blast fired in DB.

What bruises, I see none. Yeah, I'm gonna need more because this doesn't prove your point. I don't recall any of Freeza's minions being K.O.ed by rocks, I'll need to see instances of that.
Fiat Lux
 
Hmm so only the anime showed him in bits and pieces? I agree with the anime. Anyway the mechanical parts are most likely parts that couldn't be found/were vaporized and hand to be replaced.

The anime doesn't show him in pieces either, I suggest watching it again.
Fiat Lux
 
Both of these things help my argument. Freeza can live just about anything that doesn't vaporize him as long as someone is there to piece him back together. That's why he was so confident and that's why Trunks had to vaporize him. Just living through a planet's explosion doesn't mean much if you weren't at the epicenter of the blast. After a planet's explosion you see large chunks of rock floating around that didn't take the full blunt of the blast, Freeza is just another one of these.

I agree, Freeza is capable of surviving in peices, that being said, he wasn't shown to be in pieces in the manga, nor was that the case in the anime. Furthermore, we cannot confirm whether or not that was damage from Goku's blast or not. Furthermore, Freeza lived through Earth's explosion in Resurrection F, so...
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jun 12 2015, 03:41 PM.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 12 2015, 03:34 PM
Or Goku's blast did that...

In what way do they not help? Freeza intended on destroying the planet with himself on it, same goes for Cell. Freeza actually did it in Resurrection F.

I'm really not. He's clearly not being hit by all the energy, but he's till being hit by a massive amount of energy.

I'm aware Cell has Freeza cells, but your missing the point. I'm not arguing whether the entirety of the case can tank a planet's destruction. I'm saying Goku can harm Cell and Freeza with punches, even though they can tank an incredible amount of force.

Also, I think we've been going about this all wrong. It's not that they put force enough to destroy entire planets behind his punches, it's that he has enough condensed energy to destroy planets behind his punches, which allow him to go through the Ki the user augments their body with.
Doubtful Goku likely wanted the planet to kill him or else he'd have just totally destroyed Frieza there and then.

Yeah because he was probably sure he could escape in time then reconsidered.

Well as said so are the rocks that remain after a planet explodes yet they still exist.


I'd be inclined to agree but that in no way explains how they take damage from being thrown in to the ground, suggesting otherwise.

There's no way they can simply be thrown hard enough to inflict damage but not destroy the surrounding area along with that, the harder they're thrown in to the rocks obviously the bigger the impact, which they surely can't control.
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Steve
Jun 12 2015, 03:40 PM
Doubtful Goku likely wanted the planet to kill him or else he'd have just totally destroyed Frieza there and then.

Yeah because he was probably sure he could escape in time then reconsidered.

Well as said so are the rocks that remain after a planet explodes yet they still exist.


I'd be inclined to agree but that in no way explains how they take damage from being thrown in to the ground, suggesting otherwise.

There's no way they can simply be thrown hard enough to inflict damage but not destroy the surrounding area along with that, the harder they're thrown in to the rocks obviously the bigger the impact, which they surely can't control.
What signs show he had intended on the planet finishing the job?

Even if he had reconsidered, it's implied he could have survived if he did destroy straight off, like he did in Resurrection F.

I don't recall debris existing in the manga.

They don't. All I see is dust.

Why not? If they can shoot small Ki blasts that have enough condensed energy to destroy planets and don't destroy the planet, there's no reason they can't throw punches with that much energy behind it, and not cause significant collateral damage.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jun 12 2015, 03:51 PM.
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