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Videl vs. Sakura Haruno
Topic Started: Jun 10 2015, 04:11 PM (3,853 Views)
DBZAOTA482
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How would Videl at her best fare against the flat-chested cherry blossom at part I?

BONUS SCENARIO : If Sakura loses have her part II self fight.

BONUS SCENARIO #2: If either Sakura wins have her fight Chi-Chi

BONUS SCENARIO #3: If Sakura wins against Chi-Chi have her fight #18 (Lazuli)
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 01:20 AM
FutureProtagonist
Jun 11 2015, 12:41 AM
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Uh, can she punch with enough force to destroy planets?
Does anyone in DBZ?

Sakura can create massive craters, easily comparable to DBZ characters.
Sigh... They can take the force of an attack with enough condensed energy to destroy planets. Sakura's punch does not have enough force behind it to destroy planets, therefore she ain't doing anything to 18. The reason characters in this franchise can't destroy planets with their bear hands is because they have to expand their energy to cover the object they are trying to destroy.
If someone got punched with enough force to destroy a planet the planet they were on would be decimated by the resulting shockwave...there is just no way anyone in DBZ hits that hard.

They have low resistance to punches and kicks, it doesn't have to make sense and it doesn't that's just how we can observe it is.

If punches and kicks did no damage...why would they bother with them at all? And if they did as much damage as planet busting beams...why use beams at all?

Sakura smashes like a whole town sized area with one punch nobody in DBZ is capable of things like that until way later on in the series tiers.


So obviously this isn't 100% accurate as I'm guessing but assuming Gamabunta's tanto is made of steel I used this http://www.chapelsteel.com/weight-steel-plate.html to determine it's potential weight.

If in feet it's 100 in height, 8 in length and 5 in width that's 889 metric tons.

Since it's not all steel I guess chuck a third off of that, 599 or so then, that's discounting the wooden handle because f*** knows what that could weigh.
At the very least over 300 tons, any less would be silly and given that Gamabunta is the size of a mountain he could easily lift that weight.

Obviously not nearly exact but it's somewhere in that ballpark, assuming it's steel.
And Sakura is generally assumed to be stronger than her by the end of Part II, given the whole master & student crap.
Not to mention that Tsunade stabs Manda with the tanto pretty casually while fairly exhausted.
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魔王子

Fiat Lux
Jun 11 2015, 01:49 AM
I don't deny ki condensing. But if you want to know why you're wrong about Sakura needing force enough to destroy planets to hurt #18 then you'd need to read through that.

But for the record I don't think Sakura can hurt #18 or anyone post Zarbon.
Or you could simply explain it in the simplest terms. I really have no interest in reading all of that. Force is force.
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TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 01:53 AM
Fiat Lux
Jun 11 2015, 01:49 AM
I don't deny ki condensing. But if you want to know why you're wrong about Sakura needing force enough to destroy planets to hurt #18 then you'd need to read through that.

But for the record I don't think Sakura can hurt #18 or anyone post Zarbon.
Or you could simply explain it in the simplest terms. I really have no interest in reading all of that. Force is force.
Prince doesn't have the decency or capability of reading something more than three words that isn't "Character A > Character B > Character C." I mean I get that it's your choice, but damn man, we're having a debate. Read the source, or at least throw us something longer. I don't think that Sakura can floor Eighteen, but the Strawberry Blonde Badass is pretty tough.
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Mihawk
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Fine... Simplest terms would be that physical and ki strength are split like in other fiction manga/comics/video games. Kind of like when a mage can tank hits that destroy mountains but get easily pierced by swords. Or kind of like how Goku can hold weight several times the weight of a planet above his head when it comes to ki, but when it comes to keeping his arms straight with 20 tons of physical objects he can't do it anymore. There's tons of other evidence and examples that we've littered through the other versus sections and that thread.

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Steve
Jun 11 2015, 01:50 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 01:20 AM
FutureProtagonist
Jun 11 2015, 12:41 AM
Quote:
 
Uh, can she punch with enough force to destroy planets?
Does anyone in DBZ?

Sakura can create massive craters, easily comparable to DBZ characters.
Sigh... They can take the force of an attack with enough condensed energy to destroy planets. Sakura's punch does not have enough force behind it to destroy planets, therefore she ain't doing anything to 18. The reason characters in this franchise can't destroy planets with their bear hands is because they have to expand their energy to cover the object they are trying to destroy.
If someone got punched with enough force to destroy a planet the planet they were on would be decimated by the resulting shockwave...there is just no way anyone in DBZ hits that hard.

They have low resistance to punches and kicks, it doesn't have to make sense and it doesn't that's just how we can observe it is.

If punches and kicks did no damage...why would they bother with them at all? And if they did as much damage as planet busting beams...why use beams at all?

Sakura smashes like a whole town sized area with one punch nobody in DBZ is capable of things like that until way later on in the series tiers.


So obviously this isn't 100% accurate as I'm guessing but assuming Gamabunta's tanto is made of steel I used this http://www.chapelsteel.com/weight-steel-plate.html to determine it's potential weight.

If in feet it's 100 in height, 8 in length and 5 in width that's 889 metric tons.

Since it's not all steel I guess chuck a third off of that, 599 or so then, that's discounting the wooden handle because f*** knows what that could weigh.
At the very least over 300 tons, any less would be silly and given that Gamabunta is the size of a mountain he could easily lift that weight.

Obviously not nearly exact but it's somewhere in that ballpark, assuming it's steel.
And Sakura is generally assumed to be stronger than her by the end of Part II, given the whole master & student crap.
Not to mention that Tsunade stabs Manda with the tanto pretty casually while fairly exhausted.
You're not taking into consideration metaphysics, and you are denying what we've been shown countless times. Characters in this franchise have tanked attacks far stronger than Freeza's Supernova technique, and that destroyed planet Vegeta, which BTW, has gravity 10 times greater than Earth's. Putting force strong enough to destroy planets behind your punches in this case would not result in shockwaves powerful enough to destroy the planet itself because Ki is not purely physical, it is metaphysical, therefore it doesn't necessarily adhere to traditional physics.
TheACE
 
Prince doesn't have the decency or capability of reading something more than three words that isn't "Character A > Character B > Character C." I mean I get that it's your choice, but damn man, we're having a debate. Read the source, or at least throw us something longer. I don't think that Sakura can floor Eighteen, but the Strawberry Blonde Badass is pretty tough.

Cute, but uh, if I can be given the information about something I'm honestly not too interested in in a less extensive manor, I'll like it. I really have no interest in a long winded debate. Also, I'd appreciate if you avoided being an a**hole. please and thanks.
Fiat Lux
 
Fine... Simplest terms would be that physical and ki strength are split like in other fiction manga/comics/video games. Kind of like when a mage can tank hits that destroy mountains but get easily pierced by swords. Or kind of like how Goku can hold weight several times the weight of a planet above his head when it comes to ki, but when it comes to keeping his arms straight with 20 tons of physical objects he can't do it anymore. There's tons of other evidence and examples that we've littered through the other versus sections and that thread.

You see, I don't see where the split is. Force is force. A Mage uses magic or special abilities to destroy said mountains, and his magic isn't necessarily being used to augment his defenses, like Ki does. Sorry, but I don't recall a time where Goku was able to hold the weight of several planets with the aid of Ki, but then, his physical strength and Ki are leagues apart.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jun 11 2015, 02:18 AM.
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Quote:
 
Force is force.

I agree that force is force, but in fiction characters are affected by different types of forces to separate degrees. The reasons usually involve [plot reason here], but they exist throughout the board. Another example that's also in that thread I posted would be something like Halo. A needler has higher destructive damage than a physical melee attack yet the melee attack can do equal and usually more than a physical attack. The reason is simply to keep the series interesting with close combat rather than having a light show with guns.

Quote:
 
A Mage uses magic or special abilities to destroy said mountains, and his magic isn't necessarily being used to augment his defenses, like Ki does.

I'm speaking about a specific instance where a mage's blast packs enough force to destroy a mountains where they easily tank it, but when it comes a physical object like a sword, they'll die by a simple poke. Obviously a special ability that vaporizes mountains would be irrelevant here.

Quote:
 
Sorry, but I don't recall a time where Goku was able to hold the weight of several planets with the aid of Ki, but then, his physical strength and Ki are leagues apart.

If you read the thread it would have refreshed your memory. Goku said the genki dama had enough force to crush the planet (weight is a force, incase I actually needed to explain that). Goku was struggling to keep it up while Freeza was able to push it backward.

The reasons why it actually happens are likely metaphysical same as the observartions with ki condensation.

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Goku has trouble dealing with a cave-in after absorbing god mode. Planet smasher he is not
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Fiat Lux
Jun 11 2015, 02:42 AM
Quote:
 
Force is force.

I agree that force is force, but in fiction characters are affected by different types of forces to separate degrees. The reasons usually involve [plot reason here], but they exist throughout the board. Another example that's also in that thread I posted would be something like Halo. A needler has higher destructive damage than a physical melee attack yet the melee attack can do equal and usually more than a physical attack. The reason is simply to keep the series interesting with close combat rather than having a light show with guns.

Quote:
 
A Mage uses magic or special abilities to destroy said mountains, and his magic isn't necessarily being used to augment his defenses, like Ki does.

I'm speaking about a specific instance where a mage's blast packs enough force to destroy a mountains where they easily tank it, but when it comes a physical object like a sword, they'll die by a simple poke. Obviously a special ability that vaporizes mountains would be irrelevant here.

Quote:
 
Sorry, but I don't recall a time where Goku was able to hold the weight of several planets with the aid of Ki, but then, his physical strength and Ki are leagues apart.

If you read the thread it would have refreshed your memory. Goku said the genki dama had enough force to crush the planet (weight is a force, incase I actually needed to explain that). Goku was struggling to keep it up while Freeza was able to push it backward.

The reasons why it actually happens are likely metaphysical same as the observartions with ki condensation.
And I have yet to see a proper example here. Game mechanics certainly won't help your case either, as Super Sonic in the Sonic the Hedgehog series is invincible, yet can somehow be crushed.

Magic is strange case anyway. It could be that magic is ineffective against the physical in this case.

Goku isn't struggling to keep it, it's stationary on it's own, as Freeza was able to knock him out of concentration.

Assuming of course you are right, as I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'd agree that 18 probably wouldn't be able to tank a punch from Sakura.

Regarding the subject of metaphysics though, I wonder how this plays into their speed.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jun 11 2015, 02:52 AM.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 02:03 AM
You're not taking into consideration metaphysics, and you are denying what we've been shown countless times. Characters in this franchise have tanked attacks far stronger than Freeza's Supernova technique, and that destroyed planet Vegeta, which BTW, has gravity 10 times greater than Earth's. Putting force strong enough to destroy planets behind your punches in this case would not result in shockwaves powerful enough to destroy the planet itself because Ki is not purely physical, it is metaphysical, therefore it doesn't necessarily adhere to traditional physics.
But they haven't tanked punches far weaker than that soo...
If it's not an energy attack they're being hit with whatever energy attacks they'd survived are irrelevant really.

Whatever Ki does has no bearing on how strong physical hits are really it doesn't augment their strength that much. Goku had to go SSj to lift 10 tons easily, it obviously wasn't a x50 boost to his strength he got.

Also remember Cell had to use a blast to destroy 16 he couldn't free himself from his grip much like Raditz couldn't get out of a Full Nelson despite an obvious power advantage, hilarious power advantage in Cell's case.


If Ki attacks have enough force to destroy planets then there's no way their punches do as well but don't have that same destructive potential, that makes no sense.

Have you never noticed how when someone is thrown in to a rock or the ground they're visibly damaged from the impact? Even though at best they destroy said rock or a small amount of the ground.
Like with Buu he hits Kaioshin in to the ground and he has cuts all over him, same with Gohan. If Ki should be defending them from the ground here...why doesn't it?
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Steve
Jun 11 2015, 02:57 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 02:03 AM
You're not taking into consideration metaphysics, and you are denying what we've been shown countless times. Characters in this franchise have tanked attacks far stronger than Freeza's Supernova technique, and that destroyed planet Vegeta, which BTW, has gravity 10 times greater than Earth's. Putting force strong enough to destroy planets behind your punches in this case would not result in shockwaves powerful enough to destroy the planet itself because Ki is not purely physical, it is metaphysical, therefore it doesn't necessarily adhere to traditional physics.
But they haven't tanked punches far weaker than that soo...
If it's not an energy attack they're being hit with whatever energy attacks they'd survived are irrelevant really.

Whatever Ki does has no bearing on how strong physical hits are really it doesn't augment their strength that much. Goku had to go SSj to lift 10 tons easily, it obviously wasn't a x50 boost to his strength he got.

Also remember Cell had to use a blast to destroy 16 he couldn't free himself from his grip much like Raditz couldn't get out of a Full Nelson despite an obvious power advantage, hilarious power advantage in Cell's case.


If Ki attacks have enough force to destroy planets then there's no way their punches do as well but don't have that same destructive potential, that makes no sense.

Have you never noticed how when someone is thrown in to a rock or the ground they're visibly damaged from the impact? Even though at best they destroy said rock or a small amount of the ground.
Like with Buu he hits Kaioshin in to the ground and he has cuts all over him, same with Gohan. If Ki should be defending them from the ground here...why doesn't it?
You make great points, but Freeza was able to tank Namek exploding in his face, and yet Goku wasn't really affected by his punches, even after he bulked up...
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jun 11 2015, 01:41 PM.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 03:03 AM
Although... Freeza was able to tank Namek exploding in his face, and yet Goku wasn't really affected by his punches, even after he bulked up...
I wouldn't call losing half your head and most of your body tanking :p

Saiyan muscles must just be superior, Goku was always tanking things a normal human with the same PL couldn't appear to.
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Steve
Jun 11 2015, 03:23 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 03:03 AM
Although... Freeza was able to tank Namek exploding in his face, and yet Goku wasn't really affected by his punches, even after he bulked up...
I wouldn't call losing half your head and most of your body tanking :p

Saiyan muscles must just be superior, Goku was always tanking things a normal human with the same PL couldn't appear to.
He lived, that's the point, and that honestly could have been damage from Goku's Angry Kamehameha. Right, but Goku isn't even able to move with 40 tons strapped to him, and yet he's able to damage Freeza with punches, despite the fact that Freeza can live a planet blowing up in face? What about Cell? He was perfectly fine with blowing up Earth with himself on it, so it would appear he can live a planet blowing in his face too, yet Gohan draw blood with a punch to the gut? Hell, looking into it, Cell may have been just playing along with No. 16:
Quote:
 
Chapter: 406 (DBZ 212), P9.2
Context: after it turns out No.16's bomb has been removed
Cell: “Too bad, No.16…Though I don’t think I would have died from a mere bomb anyway.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jun 11 2015, 01:40 PM.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 01:29 AM
TheACE
Jun 11 2015, 01:26 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 11 2015, 01:20 AM
FutureProtagonist
Jun 11 2015, 12:41 AM
Quote:
 
Uh, can she punch with enough force to destroy planets?
Does anyone in DBZ?

Sakura can create massive craters, easily comparable to DBZ characters.
Sigh... They can take the force of an attack with enough condensed energy to destroy planets. Sakura's punch does not have enough force behind it to destroy planets, therefore she ain't doing anything to 18. The reason characters in this franchise can't destroy planets with their bear hands is because they have to expand their energy to cover the object they are trying to destroy.
Wait can't Goku punch out planets by the end of Z? I'm pretty sure he punched through King Kai's planet.
Kaio's planet is really small though. I kinda doubt he could do that to Earth.
It doesn't matter how small it is, it's all about density through calcs made by other sites they all end up with more than sun busting punches.
Edited by Majin Vegeta, Jun 11 2015, 07:21 AM.
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Just no with Kai's planet at best you could argue for there is large mountain level, it's not that big at all scale it up 10 times and it's not even close to the size of the moon.

Mountain level isn't too much of a stretch but then that is SSj3 Goku who is leagues ahead of 18 so that works against the argument really obviously she's way below, plus she has no transformations to increase muscle mass.
It's not even clear if she can get stronger at all.


See yeah no if density matters here and Ki makes the punches super strong Goku at that point should have been able to do wayyyy more and that was obviously a serious hit he wasn't playing with Beerus. Those calcs just don't work.
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Steve
Jun 11 2015, 11:46 AM
Just no with Kai's planet at best you could argue for there is large mountain level, it's not that big at all scale it up 10 times and it's not even close to the size of the moon.

Mountain level isn't too much of a stretch but then that is SSj3 Goku who is leagues ahead of 18 so that works against the argument really obviously she's way below, plus she has no transformations to increase muscle mass.
It's not even clear if she can get stronger at all.


See yeah no if density matters here and Ki makes the punches super strong Goku at that point should have been able to do wayyyy more and that was obviously a serious hit he wasn't playing with Beerus. Those calcs just don't work.
Prove that this is the best. The calcs have very strong physics on them and clearly prove to be far above planetary feat whether or not it's hard to believe.

I agree that Android 18 doesn't punch nearly as much though.

It doesn't matter the feat still stands.
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