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McDonald's works should make $15 per hour?!
Topic Started: May 30 2015, 11:55 PM (2,818 Views)
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ObsessiveFanGirl
Jun 1 2015, 04:52 AM
I do have to add... What about all of the people who can't get a better job because of their circumstances? I know I'm using the word "can't" lightly, but basically I'm referring to people who find it much more difficult than others to find a job. I'm talking people with disabilities, mental illness, etc. who struggle with holding a job at a place like McDonald's. We have to consider the fact that there are people out there who have to support themselves, but they may suffer from something like social anxiety, autism, epilepsy, severe depression, bipolar disorder, etc. Shouldn't the minimum wage be enough for a single person to live at least in a cheap one bedroom apartment? It isn't even high enough for that, to be honest, and there are people out there who cannot afford to survive or find a better job because society just won't allow it.

I know that there are ways around this. There are social services that actually do help people find jobs; however, those jobs are usually very menial like working at McDonald's where struggling people can barely get by.

In our society and economy, it's work or die. People are backed into corners, and oftentimes that can lead to depression and suicide. The work force is becoming so competitive, a lot of people can no longer keep up.
There are government assistant services to help people with disabilities. My second youngest brother is on one right now. He had surgery for two aneurysms last year on Thanksgiving weekend. Now he has spontaneous seizures with no prior history of them before the surgery. This is apparently common for people recovering from his surgery and he's lucky to be alive. But now he can't work. At all. But he's on disability and gets almost as much as I do a month on top of Food Stamps.

You can get disability while still working. You just can't work more than X hours, etc. Disability is difficult to get on. But no more difficult than getting a job. They'll turn you away the first couple times to make sure you actually need it.

I have a friend who has a muscle disorder in his legs. He can't walk for long periods of time and stairs are just out of the question. He also gets amazing benefits from the government that honestly makes me slightly envious.

A local magic the gathering player I play with at my Local Gaming Store has some kind of PTSD or Anxiety. I don't ask him much as it's not my business so I only know what he brings up. But it took him 6 months to get Disability. However he's been on it for six years while working a small part time job. From what I understand he suffers from some incident involving a car wreck. Physically he's fine. He just has break downs every now and then that make holding a job difficult.
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I didn't know that people with anxiety or depression could get on disability, so that's interesting. I just wonder how hard it must be for people who have these issues and can't get on disability, or for people who are just too stubborn or proud to get help.

Even still, I think the minimum wage should be high enough for people to live off of. People who work at McDonald's may have minimum skills, but that doesn't make them worthless, and they should still be paid a survivable wage.
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ObsessiveFanGirl
Jun 1 2015, 05:14 AM
I didn't know that people with anxiety or depression could get on disability, so that's interesting. I just wonder how hard it must be for people who have these issues and can't get on disability, or for people who are just too stubborn or proud to get help.

Even still, I think the minimum wage should be high enough for people to live off of. People who work at McDonald's may have minimum skills, but that doesn't make them worthless, and they should still be paid a survivable wage.
Like I said somewhere here once before. I think it should reflect the states cost of living. States like California, New York and Texas DEFINITELY need an increase. The cost of living there is abnormally high (due to the population most likely).

However my state, Mississippi, doesn't require it. Out cost of living is so low that our minimum wage ($7.25/hr) is technically higher than California's $9/hr. I have also never worked a job outside of my first job at Subway when I was 16 that paid me less than $8/hr. We have more jobs in my area than we have people wanting to work them.

I can't speak for Oklahoma. I never lived there. I've only lived in Texas and Mississippi. Each state is different. How they handle disability is different and how they handle minimum wage is different. If cost of living is as high as you're making it seem in your state then it needs a minimum wage increase. That or you might want to see if you qualify for low income housing. Here if you make less than $24k a year you qualify for low income housing which is like $350 a month for rent.
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The problem with the area I'm in is you're either living in a cheap one bedroom apartment in the ghetto where you'll likely be robbed, or you're living in an apartment that's at least $700/month for a one bedroom. There's no middle ground in this city.

Sure, minimum wage is probably enough to scrape by in a $400 apartment in the absolute ghetto, but I would only go for that if I was totally desperate. It definitely does depend on the state you live in, but it also depends on the city or town you're living in.
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ObsessiveFanGirl
Jun 1 2015, 05:32 AM
The problem with the area I'm in is you're either living in a cheap one bedroom apartment in the ghetto where you'll likely be robbed, or you're living in an apartment that's at least $700/month for a one bedroom. There's no middle ground in this city.

Sure, minimum wage is probably enough to scrape by in a $400 apartment in the absolute ghetto, but I would only go for that if I was totally desperate. It definitely does depend on the state you live in, but it also depends on the city or town you're living in.
Yeah. I forgot that other states city structures are different.

In Mississippi it's expected of you to travel out of city for EVERYTHING. Each city that's relevant to my area (the Gulf Coast) is connected by a single interstate. So it's super easy to just hop on I-10 to get where you need. I used to work two cities away from where I lived. The drive was only 20 minutes.

I can't speak for your specific situation. But look on craigslist for houses to rent as well. I found that renting a house is often times much much cheaper than renting an apartment. Also look around for management companies that manage a lot of properties versus one single large complex.

I will give you the heads up that renting a house is cheaper per month on rent, but turning on utilities/electricity is more expensive. The monthly isn't bad. It's just that initial turn on fee. Once again. I can only speak from my experience here. I don't know how it's done in your area. I'd imagine it's not worlds apart.
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We've got a pretty decent two bedroom apartment picked out that's only $840 a month. We're moving out at the end of July, but I definitely want to look for a house after that. I've never really wanted an apartment to begin with. It's just something that we have to do for now.

Our city structures are pretty weird out here since I live in Tulsa. Well, technically I still live with my parents in a nearby suburb, but that's about 30 minutes away from anything important. It's 15 minutes away from my work and 40 minutes from my school. To get to my girlfriend's house, it takes me about 40 minutes in a completely different direction. She lives in a different suburb town. It's all cray.
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ObsessiveFanGirl
Jun 1 2015, 05:43 AM
We've got a pretty decent two bedroom apartment picked out that's only $840 a month. We're moving out at the end of July, but I definitely want to look for a house after that. I've never really wanted an apartment to begin with. It's just something that we have to do for now.

Our city structures are pretty weird out here since I live in Tulsa. Well, technically I still live with my parents in a nearby suburb, but that's about 30 minutes away from anything important. It's 15 minutes away from my work and 40 minutes from my school. To get to my girlfriend's house, it takes me about 40 minutes in a completely different direction. She lives in a different suburb town. It's all cray.
Jeez. $840 a month would land you a really nice three-four bedroom apartment here. I had a two Bedroom apartment for $630 a month for a year.
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and our minimum wage is still $7.25....

Technically we could find much cheaper, but like I said, that would be putting our lives in danger. lol
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ObsessiveFanGirl
Jun 1 2015, 05:47 AM
and our minimum wage is still $7.25....

Technically we could find much cheaper, but like I said, that would be putting our lives in danger. lol
Oh yeah. We have those areas too. We call those areas Downtown Biloxi and basically anywhere in Moss Point. Well and one street in Gautier called College Dr. Those areas have a ridiculous crime rate compared to the rest of the areas. It's mostly because of the section 8 housing. Don't know why it attracts the kind of people it does.

Oh and of course I forgot about trailers. I don't know if that's an exclusive feature to the south. But those can be rented AND bought for fairly cheap. Looked into them a few times. Some of them are nicer than houses.
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Yes. But being a baseline employee at McDonalds or Whataburger shouldn't pay the same as an EMT driving an ambulance or a dispatcher for a police station.


No, it shouldn't. I didn't say it should.

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My youngest brother is in the McDonalds mess. He complains about his job, his wages and his living conditions. Complains that he doesn't have enough money. But he sure does make sure he has enough to go to the movies every week, get new video games and go out to eat at expensive restaurants.

What he doesn't do? Look for a better job that would give him more money. He has been working McDonalds for FOUR years now and is content with working three. He isn't even concerned with trying to become a manager. He wants to work as a starting position in McDonals and wants them to suddenly just provide with him with more money.


If your brother lives alone and has enough money to pay for the movies and buy video games AFTER paying for rent, bills and food, then it sounds like the minimum wage doesn't need raising. Like I said in my previous post, I am not advocating for the minimum wage to be bumped up so people can thrive on it (by this I mean doing what I just described your brother as doing), I am just saying that the MINIMUM pay on a full-time job (full-time being a key factor here) should be enough to support one person in paying rent for one bedroom (be that in a flat, bedsit, shared house, whatever), whatever the average bills are for a single person, and food enough for one person. That is all, and that is the least any person should expect from a full time job.

However, if your brother is living at home (i.e. not paying full-price for rent, bills and food), then that is the reason he has that extra money, and that's your parents choice to give him an easier ride.

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No. I don't think they should increase minimum wage for basic positions. I think people should try to aspire to being more than a burger bottom of the totem poll employee.

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I don't consider working at McDonalds a real job. By real job I mean CAREER. Yes. It's a job. But it's not a career. It's not something you work to support a family with. If you choose to work there and choose NOT to look for a better job then it is your own fault. If you don't have the skills to get a better job or don't wish to acquire the skills to get a better job then it is your own fault. Companies should not be forced to pay people more money just because people think it's not fair.


If that's your opinion on those jobs, then that's fine. But just because certain people look down on those jobs and consider them jobs that are worth next to nothing (which you clearly do), it doesn't mean that we should base their pay according to personal opinion. What about cleaners and binmen (garbage disposal)? Plenty of people look down on those jobs and consider them 'bottom of the totem pole' occupations. They shouldn't earn enough to survive in this world? Every cashier operator in any retail job? I mean, their job can be done by a machine, they clearly shouldn't earn enough to survive in this world. Heck, what about people who work maintenance for a complex? I'm sure there are well-off people who consider them bottom of the totem pole and not worthy of a living wage. I should say that none of these examples are my own opinion, but there are definitely people who would think that way. As a general rule, there is always somebody that somebody else will look down on, things they consider beneath them. That shouldn't shape the basic living wage.
Edited by Mitas, Jun 1 2015, 10:36 AM.
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Mitas
Jun 1 2015, 10:35 AM
If that's your opinion on those jobs, then that's fine. But just because certain people look down on those jobs and consider them jobs that are worth next to nothing (which you clearly do), it doesn't mean that we should base their pay according to personal opinion. What about cleaners and binmen (garbage disposal)? Plenty of people look down on those jobs and consider them 'bottom of the totem pole' occupations. They shouldn't earn enough to survive in this world? Every cashier operator in any retail job? I mean, their job can be done by a machine, they clearly shouldn't earn enough to survive in this world. Heck, what about people who work maintenance for a complex? I'm sure there are well-off people who consider them bottom of the totem pole and not worthy of a living wage. I should say that none of these examples are my own opinion, but there are definitely people who would think that way. As a general rule, there is always somebody that somebody else will look down on, things they consider beneath them. That shouldn't shape the basic living wage.
No. Minimum wage should reflect the cost of living based on the state as I've said before twice now.

ObsessiveFanGirl's state has the same minimum wage as my stat. But a two bedroom apartment is $200 more a month than one is where I live. Her state needs a minimum wage increase assuming she's been providing accurate and unbiased information. Which for the sake of argument, I'll assume she has been.

I don't think the wage should stay low because it's for jobs that society looks down on. Trash Pick up is a government paid job (at least here) and is hard and dirty work. Unlike working at McDonalds or a Cashier. So they obviously deserve more an hour than someone who works as a cashier or someone who works at McDonalds as a baseline employee. But this is an opinion and this is ultimately the decision of the companies that hire their employees.

I couldn't tell you the last time I checked out with a real human at Wal Mart. Ever since the self checkout machines went into place I've preferred them over dealing with the awkward social interactions with the cashier. Jokes that have been said too much, conversations that I don't want to have. Oh look the item didn't ring up, "That means it's free right?" an awkward chuckle at a joke we've heard and said before. No thanks. I'll skip on all that. I worked retail. Cashiering is not hard. You stand in place, making the same motions over and over. That or you stand around dozing off waiting for someone to come down your isle.

Some of the girls at Best Buy had Netflix on their smartphone and watched while no customers were in line. They were getting paid $9/hr to watch Netflix. Do they deserve above minimum wage? I don't think so. But that's not my call as I wasn't in a management position with Best Buy. It didn't pay as much as working on the sales floor.

I don't think the menial easy jobs should pay much. If the job can be replaced by a machine at a certain cost it would only benefit the company to pay a person under that cost to be there doing the job. The moment it becomes cheaper to replace the person with the machine it should be done. I'm not against a company making smart business choices. I've not jumped on this anti-business band wagon so many others in the world have jumped on.

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However, if your brother is living at home (i.e. not paying full-price for rent, bills and food), then that is the reason he has that extra money, and that's your parents choice to give him an easier ride.


He's living with his friends basically living as a couch bum. I can't pity him since this is all his choice. Our parents are more than happy to let him stay with them, he just can't stand them getting involved in his business.
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It's not the government's responsibility to make sure companies provide livable wages to people. The point of a minimum wage is to prevent people from slaving at abhorrent rates simply because they can't find better jobs. That said $7.25 is still ridiculous in most states I've visited.

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Fiat Lux
Jun 1 2015, 06:21 PM
It's not the government's responsibility to make sure companies provide livable wages to people. The point of a minimum wage is to prevent people from slaving at abhorrent rates simply because they can't find better jobs.
Wait, if it's not the government's responsibility, then who should ensure that companies provide livable wages?

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That's hard to say, but the government aren't your parents. Their purpose is to prevent people from abusing each other (and I know the government oversteps the bounds both ways).

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Fiat Lux
Jun 1 2015, 11:03 PM
That's hard to say, but the government aren't your parents. Their purpose is to prevent people from abusing each other (and I know the government oversteps the bounds both ways).
I'm pretty sure we're wandering into ideological differences in beliefs on the purpose of government, but I disagree with what you say. I believe the government needs to set the rules on certain things like minimum wage. We can't let corporations make their own rules, otherwise it ends up being a race to the bottom.

In my opinion, the government should be responsible for preventing not only people from abusing people, but also corporations from abusing people. Having government regulate the minimum wage disallows corporations from providing its employees with unlivable wages. This is one way the government ensures a level playing field.
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