Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 8
Toguro runs the Dragonball Z gauntlet.
Topic Started: May 21 2015, 03:57 PM (3,949 Views)
+ Pelador
Member Avatar
Crazy Awesome Legend

Toguru from Yu Yu Hakusho runs the DBZ gauntlet. How far can he go?

Saiyan Saga

Radditz
Nappa
Vegeta

Freeza Saga

Cui
Vegeta
Dodoria
Zarbon
Monster Zarbon
Recoome
Jeice
Burter
Ginyu
Freeza first form
Freeza second form
Freeza third form
Freeza fourth form
Freeza 50%
Freeza 100%

Cell Saga

Android 19
Android 20
Cyborg 18
Cyborg 17
Inperfect Cell
Android 16
Semi Perfect Cell
Cell Junior
Initial perfect Cell
Cell games Perfect Cell warm up
50% Perfect Cell
100% Perfect Cell
Super Perfect cell


I can't see him getting past First form Freeza but I can imagine him beating Ginyu.


Posted Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Replies:
+ Solid Snake
Member Avatar
滅Are you frightened?

Steve
May 29 2015, 06:20 PM
Solid Snake
May 29 2015, 05:22 PM
Pelador
May 29 2015, 04:58 PM
All the times where he dodged fast attacks of course. Why would I assume he couldn't if he hadn't seen it with my own eyes?

How do you know if they're fast though? There's no time gap to reference the speed of their energy attacks unless you have scene from the manga that explains that.
How do you know attacks in DB are fast without any kind of reference to their speed? Panels of their trajectory mean nothing.

Everyone just assumes they're faster and YYH's are slower with no kind of proof. They're static images what's there to argue about...


If DBZ characters have crap resistance to physical attacks then air pressure should be highly damaging to them, and very damaging to their stamina Toguro could blast the air around them away so they have nothing to breathe for a time, that would build up and make them lose a lot of stamina.
And there's no real limit to how much he can do that because he'd only have to swing his arms about, pretty much the same as Gai in Naruto but obviously way less extreme.

As well as the damage that would cause.
Ki resistance can't do an awful lot there considering they're not being attacked by Ki.

I never said they were fast but I think we all can agree that not all of them are slow. And actually, they are pretty fast (in Dragon Ball's case) cause in the two recent films a lot of their ki attacks travel across from one another extremely fast. Can't say the same for YYH since they don't have a canon film.

They don't have crappy resistance to physical attacks, if they did the Vegeta would have been knocked out when Goku bodied him in Kaioken times 3 and sent him crashing into a few plateaus. If anything they have very good resistance to this stuff.

The heck air pressure gonna do to those that can move out of harms way in quick bursts? And they use afterimages to fool him, making him waste time trying to hit mirages.

Posted Image
Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu


SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig

Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story

Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ supersaqer
Member Avatar
Transcendent

Pelador
May 29 2015, 11:50 AM
So you keep saying but you provide no evidence besides people in dbz can fire big ki blasts. So what? Togoro would dodge them. He's very, very fast.
You just contradicted yourself. You keep saying that, but you provide no evidence besides Toguro being very fast. How fast is he? Not even remotely close to do anything to Raditz.

Yusuke
May 29 2015, 06:30 PM
23rd TB Goku >>> All Pre-Toguro villains

Younger Toguro ~ 23rd TB Piccolo

Shinobu Sensui ~ Saiayan Arc Vegeta

Yomi ~ First Form Freeza

Prime Raizen ~ SSJ Namek Goku


That's how I see things personally.
How do you think that?


Posted Image

Speed-o'-Sound Sonic
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mihawk
Member Avatar


Solid Snake
May 28 2015, 10:04 PM
Question, if they knock people into mountains and stuff, but if they miss nothing happens. Why doesn't the background get disturbed or anything? Guy from Naruto is able to make gaping holes (using the Eighth Gate I believe) from just the shockwaves. So shouldn't that mean that AoE isn't entirely reliable?

Look at SSJ4 Gogeta for example, his most powerful ki attack, which combines both attributes if the Big Bang Attack and the Kamehameha (the former almost akin to the Final Flash) yet the background and the surrounding area looked the same.

Also, his physical attacks only knocked Omega through a building. So using AoE 100% if the time makes his physical attacks worthless to some like Goku @ Frieza on Namek.
I agree that AoE is not consistent for physical attacks, but that doesn't mean that there's any tangible evidence physical attacks are anywhere near ki attacks.

Posted Image

Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Steve
Member Avatar
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Solid Snake
May 29 2015, 08:03 PM
The heck air pressure gonna do to those that can move out of harms way in quick bursts? And they use afterimages to fool him, making him waste time trying to hit mirages.

How are they going to see or sense air coming towards them? It's only drawn for visual representation so the audience knows what's happening.

Or can you see the wind? :p

Afterimages are pretty useless here considering he only has to flick his thumb at them and he can sense energy anyway which is right about the time almost nobody bothered with them.


As for the 120% thing it was Yusuke who went to 120% and it seems like Toguro went 200%. Or at least in this translation it says 100% over 100%.

So long as he doesn't go that high and try to tank an attack he shouldn't face any issues, if he receives any damage from going over 100% all he has to do is power down a bit and he's going to heal.
If he even needs to go that far by the time he would it'd be around the time opponents would be able to oneshot him anyway.

Quote:
 
Not even remotely close to do anything to Raditz.


Where is your evidence for that?

Raditz got wrecked by an almighty full nelson, Toguro's physical strength is ridiculous compared to Goku at that point.
Edited by Steve, May 29 2015, 08:49 PM.
Posted Image


Definitely not a succubus, fear not
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mihawk
Member Avatar


supersaqer
May 29 2015, 10:02 AM
Fiat Lux
May 28 2015, 08:57 PM
That causes way more headaches than you realize (or are willing to accept). If the AoE of a punch is small than the attack is weak. Attacks are measured by their AoE. We've been over this already. We make an exception for ki attacks because we actually see them do a lot of damage in a handful of cases. So we just say it's simply plot/fiction and call it ki concentration. There's no need to make the same plot exception for physical attacks because they never have actually show to have that much AoE. In fact the opposite is shown where Goku can't curl 10 tons yet he can hold above his entire head the weight heavier than a planet simply because it's ki. It's a simple explanation rather than playing a game of pretend by saying phrases like "planet level potency" which have no real evidence behind them.
AoE doesn't necessarily determine the power all the time. A concentrated attack (of the same power) would affect a smaller area, while an omnidirectional attack (of the same power) would affect a much bigger area. I'm willing to accept anything that would make sense. Ki blasts were deflected and intercepted by punches. So they have the same resistance for both physical and ki attacks.

Goku having trouble with 40 tons is an outlier. Goku already enhances his physical strength with ki. There's no pure physical strength in Dragon Ball anymore because of ki.

In any way, Toguro gets smashed here. This thread has been going on for too long, and it should have ended pages earlier. He's 22nd TB level so he has no chance whatsoever here.
AoE is the main factor when determining the power of an attack in fiction battles. True we make plot exceptions for ki attacks because planets would get destroyed if every blast wasn't concentrated. But that's only because we actually have statements that say ki attacks can destroy planets and solar systems. There is no such evidence for physical attacks.

Ki attacks were intercepted by the physical body, but that doesn't mean there wasn't ki being used to block the attack.

Goku having trouble with 40 tons is not an outlier. For the zillionth time, using jumping and pushing feats in DB are not sufficient to determine lifting strength. Nothing outright contradicts 40 tons apart form ridiculous fan speculation.

Ki multiplies physical strength. That's all it does.


Posted Image

Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Solid Snake
Member Avatar
滅Are you frightened?

@ Steve: There's nothing suggesting that they could get taken out by that little attack.

A lot of people can sense energy, but even they sometimes lose track of people due to the other person being extremely faster than what they can perceive or sense.

@ Fiat: How much natural durability do you assume the people of Dragon Ball to have? And what do you make of statements that be like "Wow, is power and speed are amazing!" along with the shock when certain people tank the physical attacks that were assumed to be powerful enough to damage em?

And Frieza and Goku, when he was using Kaioken times 20 to battle Frieza his physical attacks for that little instant were crippling him before Goku fired that Kamehameha, which Frieza managed to stop with a single hand. We all know that Kaioken increases everything about oneself due to it forcing you to go pass your physical and regular ki reserves limits (includes: Power, Speed, Durability and Destructive Force).

Now are there multiple terms for "power" in this case?
Posted Image
Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu


SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig

Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story

Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dankness Lava
Member Avatar
Dankness Forever

Pelador
May 29 2015, 01:23 AM
We've seen that his speed is at least faster than super human senses can see. We've also seen that he can tank anything short of mountain busting without even needing to block. He doesn't need energy projection because his raw power is so extreme that it acts the same way as ki does. In other words the force of his movements are destructive in their own right. Like we said before, just flicking his thumbs created enough force to make demons in the audience heads explode.
Reading all that, my case still stands. He shouldn't be better in any category than Raditz.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pelador
Member Avatar
Crazy Awesome Legend

Radditz or Nappa is fine. Any higher than them is doubtful.


Posted Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Solid Snake
Member Avatar
滅Are you frightened?

Pelador
May 30 2015, 01:40 AM
Radditz or Nappa is fine. Any higher than them is doubtful.
That's still too high, this dude lost to a mountain busting attack and has "speed faster than super human senses" the same thing can be applied to Krillin vs Roshi.
Posted Image
Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu


SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig

Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story

Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pelador
Member Avatar
Crazy Awesome Legend

Not really because the other competitors could still follow the fight. Unlike the fight with Togoro where even his opponent struggled with his speed.

And one flying head butt from a five year old was enough to wind and stagger Radditz. With his armour still on. Hardly standing up to a mountain busting attack was it.


Posted Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dankness Lava
Member Avatar
Dankness Forever

Pelador
May 30 2015, 01:50 AM
Not really because the other competitors could still follow the fight. Unlike the fight with Togoro where even his opponent struggled with his speed.

And one flying head butt from a five year old was enough to wind and stagger Radditz. With his armour still on. Hardly standing up to a mountain busting attack was it.
Can't underestimate even pre-training Gohan though. I think he might do the same or worse to anyone in yyh, even sensui. But if you're not then never mind.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Solid Snake
Member Avatar
滅Are you frightened?

Pelador
May 30 2015, 01:50 AM
Not really because the other competitors could still follow the fight. Unlike the fight with Togoro where even his opponent struggled with his speed.

And one flying head butt from a five year old was enough to wind and stagger Radditz. With his armour still on. Hardly standing up to a mountain busting attack was it.
I don't think that really changes anything, Krillin and up during 21st, and up can likely fight at that same pace in under a second. That a stated speed feat in terms of combat. Does Toguru has a stated feat like that? Or is he just fast?

Saiyan hybrid that has a s*** load of power when angered. He's not some random 4 year old.
Posted Image
Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu


SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig

Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story

Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DSTREET45
Member Avatar


Pelador
May 30 2015, 01:50 AM
Not really because the other competitors could still follow the fight. Unlike the fight with Togoro where even his opponent struggled with his speed.

And one flying head butt from a five year old was enough to wind and stagger Radditz. With his armour still on. Hardly standing up to a mountain busting attack was it.
IIRC only Goku could follow them. When Goku tried to move at a similar speed Nam had to rely on his hearing in order to dodge Goku. And from that point onward everyone had been getting faster.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheACE
Member Avatar
The Last GT Fighter

Even then the senses are all relative. King Kai couldn't follow the Goku vs Frieza fight on Namek, but Krillin and the gang were able to watch Goku vs Cell just fine. It all scales differently. Deceive you, your eyes can, Padawan Pelador.
Posted Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mihawk
Member Avatar


Well two things. Just because Togorou or whatever is too fast to be seen by the characters in the series doesn't mean the DB characters can't see them. It's all relative to the series itself. Whatever too fast to the eye means is all relative to who we're talking about. In DB it usually means close PLs can see each other in battle. Without any actual speedfeat from YYH everything is just a moot point.

Also just because Togorou can lift more than Goku doesn't mean he can strike harder than him. Each author has a different way of showcasing strength levels. In some series it's entirely possible that a character can lift only 10 pounds be their punches can destroy the planet.

@Solid Snake: I'm not sure what you mean? Kaioken multiplies your ki which in turn multiplies your speed, physical strength, etc.

Posted Image

Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Sign-up for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Other Versus · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 8

Theme Designed by McKee91