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Toguro runs the Dragonball Z gauntlet.
Topic Started: May 21 2015, 03:57 PM (3,950 Views)
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Crazy Awesome Legend

Toguru from Yu Yu Hakusho runs the DBZ gauntlet. How far can he go?

Saiyan Saga

Radditz
Nappa
Vegeta

Freeza Saga

Cui
Vegeta
Dodoria
Zarbon
Monster Zarbon
Recoome
Jeice
Burter
Ginyu
Freeza first form
Freeza second form
Freeza third form
Freeza fourth form
Freeza 50%
Freeza 100%

Cell Saga

Android 19
Android 20
Cyborg 18
Cyborg 17
Inperfect Cell
Android 16
Semi Perfect Cell
Cell Junior
Initial perfect Cell
Cell games Perfect Cell warm up
50% Perfect Cell
100% Perfect Cell
Super Perfect cell


I can't see him getting past First form Freeza but I can imagine him beating Ginyu.


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The Last GT Fighter

But Yusuke doesn't have the same speed or mobility that someone even of Radtiz' caliber has. Same problem remains.
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FutureProtagonist
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Well, I don't know exactly what kind of speed he has, but he likely would have some trouble with DBZ flyers. I'm sure he can jump pretty high, but theoretically, Raditz or whoever could just go way the hell up and rain down ki attacks on him.
Edited by FutureProtagonist, May 29 2015, 02:13 AM.
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滅Are you frightened?

Even if Goku can't curl 10 tons on each limb, doesn't mean he can't hit with force that can send people crashing into mountains and such (which requires FAR more than 10 and even 40 tons).
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FutureProtagonist
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir

Speed is as much a factor in determining force as strength is. In high school physics, you learn F = MA. Weak strength doesn't preclude the possibility of strong punches.

Besides, the force of his hits wasn't terribly impressive before the Freeza Arc. Toguro seems to be capable of doing comparable things, especially in the field of air pressure. Saiyan Arc level strength isn't beyond the pale for him.
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Fiat Lux
May 28 2015, 08:57 PM
That causes way more headaches than you realize (or are willing to accept). If the AoE of a punch is small than the attack is weak. Attacks are measured by their AoE. We've been over this already. We make an exception for ki attacks because we actually see them do a lot of damage in a handful of cases. So we just say it's simply plot/fiction and call it ki concentration. There's no need to make the same plot exception for physical attacks because they never have actually show to have that much AoE. In fact the opposite is shown where Goku can't curl 10 tons yet he can hold above his entire head the weight heavier than a planet simply because it's ki. It's a simple explanation rather than playing a game of pretend by saying phrases like "planet level potency" which have no real evidence behind them.
AoE doesn't necessarily determine the power all the time. A concentrated attack (of the same power) would affect a smaller area, while an omnidirectional attack (of the same power) would affect a much bigger area. I'm willing to accept anything that would make sense. Ki blasts were deflected and intercepted by punches. So they have the same resistance for both physical and ki attacks.

Goku having trouble with 40 tons is an outlier. Goku already enhances his physical strength with ki. There's no pure physical strength in Dragon Ball anymore because of ki.

In any way, Toguro gets smashed here. This thread has been going on for too long, and it should have ended pages earlier. He's 22nd TB level so he has no chance whatsoever here.
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So you keep saying but you provide no evidence besides people in dbz can fire big ki blasts. So what? Togoro would dodge them. He's very, very fast.


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FutureProtagonist
May 29 2015, 05:59 AM
Speed is as much a factor in determining force as strength is. In high school physics, you learn F = MA. Weak strength doesn't preclude the possibility of strong punches.

Besides, the force of his hits wasn't terribly impressive before the Freeza Arc. Toguro seems to be capable of doing comparable things, especially in the field of air pressure. Saiyan Arc level strength isn't beyond the pale for him.
You can use physics to try to sum up your belief but Dragon Ball isn't DC where physics is more into play in the story. Doesn't matter if Goku physical lifting strength is weak, he shouldn't be able to knock people into mountains or breaking large husks of plateaus just by flying off them. All requires more than 40 tons of strength.
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May 29 2015, 11:50 AM
So you keep saying but you provide no evidence besides people in dbz can fire big ki blasts. So what? Togoro would dodge them. He's very, very fast.
And what evidence do you have that Toguro is actually fast enough to dodge?
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Crazy Awesome Legend

All the times where he dodged fast attacks of course. Why would I assume he couldn't if he hadn't seen it with my own eyes?



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Pelador
May 29 2015, 04:58 PM
All the times where he dodged fast attacks of course. Why would I assume he couldn't if he hadn't seen it with my own eyes?

How do you know if they're fast though? There's no time gap to reference the speed of their energy attacks unless you have scene from the manga that explains that.
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Solid Snake
May 29 2015, 05:22 PM
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May 29 2015, 04:58 PM
All the times where he dodged fast attacks of course. Why would I assume he couldn't if he hadn't seen it with my own eyes?

How do you know if they're fast though? There's no time gap to reference the speed of their energy attacks unless you have scene from the manga that explains that.
How do you know attacks in DB are fast without any kind of reference to their speed? Panels of their trajectory mean nothing.

Everyone just assumes they're faster and YYH's are slower with no kind of proof. They're static images what's there to argue about...


If DBZ characters have crap resistance to physical attacks then air pressure should be highly damaging to them, and very damaging to their stamina Toguro could blast the air around them away so they have nothing to breathe for a time, that would build up and make them lose a lot of stamina.
And there's no real limit to how much he can do that because he'd only have to swing his arms about, pretty much the same as Gai in Naruto but obviously way less extreme.

As well as the damage that would cause.
Ki resistance can't do an awful lot there considering they're not being attacked by Ki.

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23rd TB Goku >>> All Pre-Toguro villains

Younger Toguro ~ 23rd TB Piccolo

Shinobu Sensui ~ Saiayan Arc Vegeta

Yomi ~ First Form Freeza

Prime Raizen ~ SSJ Namek Goku


That's how I see things personally.
Edited by Yusuke, May 29 2015, 06:31 PM.
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Yusuke
May 29 2015, 06:30 PM
Shinobu Sensui ~ Saiayan Arc Vegeta
How do you gather that? A missed punch from Sensui shattered one of those giant rock formations several kilometers away.

No way would Vegeta tank that.

And remember one of those rock formations is what that whole tournament was on, those things are massive as big as a large city at the very least.


To back up blast speed irrelevancy:

Second last Spirit Gun


You might be thinking "That's clearly slow there's multiple panels there!"

But then there's this:

Bam


Clearly right after it was fired, shockwaves still there and rubble flying around.
Most importantly, blast isn't even in sight it's just gone over the horizon.

And Toguro could quite easily dodge the final one he just didn't because he wanted a real challenge, whole reason he went to the Dark Tournament at all. Not to mention he was running right at Yusuke and only a few meters away.

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It is certainly important to remember that Togoro wanted to die. It just had to be to a worthy foe. And yes, by the time we have that final tournament, people are at least Ginyu level. I personally wouldn't go as far as SS Goku but they might give Freeza a hard time.


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Toguro is really strong,but,before dicussing Namek Saga,have we also taken on account that Saiyan Saga Vegeta could go Great Ape on Toguro?Even if he was able to match Vegeta on the Saiyan Arc-which is debatable at best-Vegeta's Great Ape form would already put him at Captain Ginyu's level of power and durability-and Toguro's death wasn't just because Yusuke was stronger,but there's also the fact Toguro went 120% of his power-in other words,he overused his own powers,and his body couldn't handle that pressure combined with Yusuke's attack. Couldn't Great Ape Vegeta push Toguro to that point,as well?
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