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Toguro runs the Dragonball Z gauntlet.
Topic Started: May 21 2015, 03:57 PM (3,951 Views)
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Crazy Awesome Legend

Toguru from Yu Yu Hakusho runs the DBZ gauntlet. How far can he go?

Saiyan Saga

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I can't see him getting past First form Freeza but I can imagine him beating Ginyu.


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Not sure how the crater Gotenks made is relevant here Toguro obviously doesn't go that far.

But at 30-40% he makes a damn big crater with a punch so if it takes up until Gotenks to do similar things then clearly Toguro's strength is far greater compared to DB and early DBZ and if punches don't need to be immeasurably strong to hurt DBZ characters, well there you go he can do damage, lots of damage.


Also another thing is that his amount of energy wouldn't reflect how powerful he is at all so DBZ characters would probably sense him as weak and think they can one shot him with a punch and they'd get wrecked.
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That causes way more headaches than you realize (or are willing to accept). If the AoE of a punch is small than the attack is weak. Attacks are measured by their AoE. We've been over this already. We make an exception for ki attacks because we actually see them do a lot of damage in a handful of cases. So we just say it's simply plot/fiction and call it ki concentration. There's no need to make the same plot exception for physical attacks because they never have actually show to have that much AoE. In fact the opposite is shown where Goku can't curl 10 tons yet he can hold above his entire head the weight heavier than a planet simply because it's ki. It's a simple explanation rather than playing a game of pretend by saying phrases like "planet level potency" which have no real evidence behind them.

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Question, if they knock people into mountains and stuff, but if they miss nothing happens. Why doesn't the background get disturbed or anything? Guy from Naruto is able to make gaping holes (using the Eighth Gate I believe) from just the shockwaves. So shouldn't that mean that AoE isn't entirely reliable?

Look at SSJ4 Gogeta for example, his most powerful ki attack, which combines both attributes if the Big Bang Attack and the Kamehameha (the former almost akin to the Final Flash) yet the background and the surrounding area looked the same.

Also, his physical attacks only knocked Omega through a building. So using AoE 100% if the time makes his physical attacks worthless to some like Goku @ Frieza on Namek.
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I'm under the impression that yyh has a different way of showing power than dbz. I don't think he would get past saiyan saga. Even saiyan saga is iffy.
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Crazy Awesome Legend

It does. There's more of an emphasis on holy power and demonic power rather than just straight ki. They seem to have much less in the tank in Yu Yu Hakisho when it comes to ki output as well. After Yomi had his tourney battle with Yusuke, he didn't have anything left in the next battle and so he lost. Despite the battle looking very similar to the type of fights they had during the Freeza Saga. E.g flying, sending each other crashing through mountains and using fast burst attacks mid air.


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I was forgetting about how spiritual energy isn't the only relevant form of energy.

As far as I can tell, there's no difference between the energy they output and the energy they fight with, unlike in DBZ where there's a huge difference.
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Yes. They make a point about how a punch without any Reiki or Yoki put into it will do nothing. Strength is worthless without it. And since everyone including S class fighters only have a finite supply of each, the fights don't tend to last very long when they go full throttle.

Actually sorry, I'm lying about that last point. There was one fight in the final tournament stated to have been going on for several hours.
Edited by Pelador, May 28 2015, 11:46 PM.


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Well I'm referring to the destructive capability. They have to be careful about their aura and how much it flares. That is much less dangerous in DBZ.
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TheACE
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Win lose or draw with the energy differences, we still haven't established that Toguro has any level of strength, speed, durability or energy projection that puts him in a Dragon Ball class beyond DB season 4
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FutureProtagonist
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Boo Arc Goku can only curl 10 tons and 23rd TB Goku (PIccolo) is handicapped by 100 kilograms. Toguro can easily match that level of strength. The rest of it I'm not sure about, but he's definitely got strength to match DBZ without issue.
Edited by FutureProtagonist, May 29 2015, 01:18 AM.
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TheACE
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FutureProtagonist
May 29 2015, 01:17 AM
Boo Arc Goku can only curl 10 tons and 23rd TB Goku (PIccolo) is handicapped by 100 kilograms. Toguro can easily match that level of strength.
Ok you apparently have never lifted or benchpressed anything in your life. How is resistance training like Weighted clothing remotely close to a Benchpress? I really need you to try and clarify that homie.
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We've seen that his speed is at least faster than super human senses can see. We've also seen that he can tank anything short of mountain busting without even needing to block. He doesn't need energy projection because his raw power is so extreme that it acts the same way as ki does. In other words the force of his movements are destructive in their own right. Like we said before, just flicking his thumbs created enough force to make demons in the audience heads explode.


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Pelador
May 29 2015, 01:23 AM
We've seen that his speed is at least faster than super human senses can see. We've also seen that he can tank anything short of mountain busting without even needing to block. He doesn't need energy projection because his raw power is so extreme that it acts the same way as ki does. In other words the force of his movements are destructive in their own right. Like we said before, just flicking his thumbs created enough force to make demons in the audience heads explode.
Ninjas couldn't see Goku at the 22nd World Tourney and he was blocking full powered Kamehemehas with one hand in that same tourney.

Besides, raw power isn't going to do much if your range is 5 feet versus a highly mobile opponent that's capable of moving in 3 dimensions and has a destructive force beyond your capacity. Especially when he can apply it at very long range.
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Togoro's thumb blasts weren't short range. They were causing havoc around the arena. And yes Goku blocked but Togoro didn't have to. That's the difference. You talk about highly mobile opponents, no one in Yu Yu Hakisho was faster than Yosuke at that time and Togoro still flicked him away before he could get close. Casually flicked him around the arena like he was just a marble.


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TheACE
May 29 2015, 01:19 AM
FutureProtagonist
May 29 2015, 01:17 AM
Boo Arc Goku can only curl 10 tons and 23rd TB Goku (PIccolo) is handicapped by 100 kilograms. Toguro can easily match that level of strength.
Ok you apparently have never lifted or benchpressed anything in your life. How is resistance training like Weighted clothing remotely close to a Benchpress? I really need you to try and clarify that homie.
Of course I have.

What I'm saying is that one Goku's arms/legs can barely support ten tons. Now you can go and say it's not the same thing, but that doesn't give you license to decide how strong they are. You hand Goku a ten ton weight, he drops it. That's all there is to say on the matter.

Regular people can use 40 lb weighted clothing. If Goku had any serious physical strength, he'd be way above that. Instead, he's a mere 5 times above it, despite training in that thing for literally years, it still cuts his power to 80%. That's just weak.

Saying "it's not the same thing" or "it's not comparable" or "Goku could do the same if he were using different muscles" is all pure conjecture and excuses. Sure, maybe he could, but that "maybe" means there's really no argument.

Who did bench presses anyway?

One final note, I don't appreciate the passive-aggressive tone of your post. I don't care if this argument annoys you, I don't care if you feel strongly about Goku's physical strength, your post is disrespectful and dismissive, not to mention doesn't actually counter anything. Don't make another one like it.
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