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| Toguro runs the Dragonball Z gauntlet. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 21 2015, 03:57 PM (3,953 Views) | |
| + Pelador | May 21 2015, 03:57 PM Post #1 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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Toguru from Yu Yu Hakusho runs the DBZ gauntlet. How far can he go? Saiyan Saga Radditz Nappa Vegeta Freeza Saga Cui Vegeta Dodoria Zarbon Monster Zarbon Recoome Jeice Burter Ginyu Freeza first form Freeza second form Freeza third form Freeza fourth form Freeza 50% Freeza 100% Cell Saga Android 19 Android 20 Cyborg 18 Cyborg 17 Inperfect Cell Android 16 Semi Perfect Cell Cell Junior Initial perfect Cell Cell games Perfect Cell warm up 50% Perfect Cell 100% Perfect Cell Super Perfect cell I can't see him getting past First form Freeza but I can imagine him beating Ginyu. |
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| + Steve | May 26 2015, 04:05 PM Post #46 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Again you can't tell how fast it was going or what distance it went so being in one panel is irrelevant. But it doesn't make any bigger a hole than that other beam would have it wouldn't do more damage with the same sized hole. Deus Ex Machina he also got his neck snapped and hit by another shot and it did nothing, and at that point he was at 85%. Plus it's human spirit energy which destroys demon energy, can't really have that advantage here considering there's nothing similar to both demon and spirit energy in DBZ so they can't both be there. They are crappy they only pull off a handful of beams before they're exhausted only later on does Ki practically become an infinite resource due to plot. |
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| + supersaqer | May 26 2015, 04:34 PM Post #47 |
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Transcendent
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So you think it would take minutes for that blast to cross to there? I bet at the very maximum a second/seconds passed by. Toguro isn't dodging it whatsoever. Doesn't matter whether it makes a bigger hole or not. The potency of that attack is deadly and extremely huge. That's how you can differentiate between attacks. It's like saying Roshi's Kamehameha is more powerful than Piccolo's Makankosappo. So what is his durability? Wrong. Piccolo fired dozens of ki blasts at Goku in the beginning of their fight, and they showed no signs of exhaustion. Mind you the fight continued for hours until they were even tired. |
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| DSTREET45 | May 26 2015, 08:36 PM Post #48 |
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Tao tanks KHH Old King Piccolo Tanks KHH Goku Fakes getting hurt by Piccolo's ki barrage. And frankly hand-waving Yusuke's final attack as Dues Ex Machina doesn't seem right. The other blast's Yusuke pulled paled in comparison to the last since he went all out on the last one. Deus Ex Machina is a solution that comes out of nowhere for the sole purpose of helping the protagonist overcome an unsolvable problem. Not only was Yusuke stated/shown multiple times to be holding back during the first three shots (consciously for the 1st & 3rd and subconsciously for the 2nd) but he was also mentioned to have enough power to possibly beat Torguro. There are three criteria that a situation must meet in order to be classified as Deus Ex Machina:
Yusuke overpowered him, plain and simple.
Considering at that point Yusuke could only fire four shots a day before depleting his ki reserves you shouldn't call the Z-fighters reserves crappy. Hell in the final round of the 23rd Budokai Goku was spaming KHH not only as attacks but as means of maneuvering in mid-air. In the beginning stages of the fight Piccolo threw a barrage of ki blasts (at least six) at Goku and they were still capable of fighting at a higher level (since they were initially holding back) for hours. IIRC the only time I remember someone being tired after firing a few ki beams was in the Pilaf Arc when Goku first learned Kamehameha. |
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| + Steve | May 27 2015, 01:07 AM Post #49 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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It is Deus Ex Machina because there's no way Yusuke had much power left, pretty sure that was his last shot for the day anyway and Toguro powered up another 15% before being hit by it. How the hell does he go from tanking one of them and then getting stronger to getting wrecked by an attack that at best could have been 50% more powerful than the last one? It's Deus Ex Machina because Yusuke was granted the win because plot. |
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| DSTREET45 | May 27 2015, 09:03 AM Post #50 |
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Not only did Yusuke previously tank Torguro's punches he also practically rag-dolled him with a single punch. Something tells me that Yusuke still had a lot left in the tank.
Last shot=/=weakest shot. Especially when he explicitly states that he's pouring everything he has into that last shot. Seriously watch any of his previous or subsequent fights in the series, I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a situation where that is applicable.
And Yusuke gathered all of the energy he had which made his spirit gun stronger than what Torguro could handle even with the 15% boost. Still don't see what's wrong with that.
Probably because Yusuke held back on that 3rd shot (something he was capable of doing as far back as the Rescue Yunkina Arc) and just didn't concentrate as much energy as the last one. Hell looking back on it now I'm not even sure if Yusuke's 3rd shot even hit Torguro in the first place and rather just missed on purpose to serve as a warning shot/show of strength. The hole it made is too far above him for me to accurately say that he tanked it. And two pages before hand Torguro was shocked at the sight of the blast which implies that it would've done some damage to him if it connected. And don't you think that it's wierd that Torguro has his neck bent of shape and was bleeding due to a punch but was perfectly fine after Yusuke's (supposedly) unsuppressed reigun which at the very least should be twice as strong as his punch? And where are you getting 50% from?
So is every fight where a hero win Deus Ex Machina then? You could literally apply plot as the reason for someone wining a fight. Your whole point revolves around Yusuke being exhausted/having low ki reserves when nothing indicates that he was close to being winded at the time of the final showdown. It's not Dues Ex Machina, there is a reason why Yusuke won, he was just stronger than Torguro. It was shown both before and after the final shot. Edited by DSTREET45, May 27 2015, 09:13 AM.
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| + Pelador | May 27 2015, 11:36 AM Post #51 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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Yusuke was done but he got a rage boost when he thought that Kuwabara was dead. I suppose it's kind of like SSJ2 Gohan in a sense. Togoru was trying to draw it out of him just like Cell was with Gohan. He wasn't holding back since he didn't know how to draw out his extra power. Deus Ex or not, that was a big blast that took out Toguru. |
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| + Steve | May 27 2015, 11:50 AM Post #52 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Given that he can only fire the Spirit Gun five times a day yeah, he should have been low. |
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| DSTREET45 | May 27 2015, 06:36 PM Post #53 |
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And it still doesn't make it Deus Ex Machina. Like your Gohan example, Yusuke's rage boost had occurred multiple times before his fight against Torguro (First fight with Hiei, fight with Rando, fight with Suzaku, fight against those mid controlled guys). In fact, in universe, it's an easily explainable reason for WHY a person had gotten stronger in the first place. Hell I'm pretty sure Genkai explained that Yusuke's power was dependent on his emotions or something like that.
Four times (nitpicking on my part) and why? As I said earlier
Show me a situation when Yusuke was low in power because he was on his last shot. If there is one there's probably more that show otherwise. |
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| + Steve | May 28 2015, 01:24 AM Post #54 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Well, I would call not being able to fire more than one shot low on power since he shouldn't have more power to give really. If he can't fire more shots he has no more power to put in to them, he's just not shown to be visibly exhausted afterwards he can still fight fine but any opponent he uses 5 shots on is probably the sort that would wreck him after he ran out. |
![]() Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| DSTREET45 | May 28 2015, 04:21 AM Post #55 |
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Except that what happens consistently > what you think should happen. Yusuke never had a problem with firing a strong last shot, in fact, the last shot is usually the strongest. That's just the way it works in various forms of fiction DBZ, bleach, Rurouni Kenshin, Naruto etc. I'd rather go by what Yusuke shows consistently. |
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| TheACE | May 28 2015, 05:08 AM Post #56 |
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The Last GT Fighter
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The hell has this made it four pages? Tuguro got vaporized by a Mountain Busting Spirit Gun (Mega-Version). Raditz slapped a Special Beam Cannon that vaped a mountain range away. Tuguro isn't DBZ Class, /Thread. |
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| FutureProtagonist | May 28 2015, 05:14 AM Post #57 |
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
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Did spelling "Toguro" wrong somehow become a running gag in this thread?I don't necessarily disagree with you, but Raditz didn't slap anything away. Edited by FutureProtagonist, May 28 2015, 05:17 AM.
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| + Solid Snake | May 28 2015, 05:15 AM Post #58 |
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滅Are you frightened?
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The Special Beam Cannon is far stronger than mere mountain level. Raditz tanked an attack from Piccolo that rivals destroying the moon. That specific attack's piercing abilities and concentration was extremely high (evident by the power level scanner from Raditz's scouter readings). But if he lost to a mountain busting ki attack, then Roshi destroying the mountain early on is more than sufficient for this guy. Roshi didn't even intend to blow the mountain to begin with so yeah....regeneration ain't helping him if that's what he lost to. |
![]() Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
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| + Solid Snake | May 28 2015, 05:17 AM Post #59 |
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滅Are you frightened?
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It has
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![]() Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
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| TheACE | May 28 2015, 05:27 AM Post #60 |
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The Last GT Fighter
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Tuguro, Toguro, to-may-to to-maa-to. But seriously, does Genakai's demon boyfriend have any feat that even gives him a chance at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai? He said it himself, his powers are pretty dull, he has very little to nothing that makes him special. |
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