Why Gohan can use Super Saiyajin

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Why Gohan can use Super Saiyajin
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 27 2015, 01:34 AM (3,439 Views)
-Freeman	Apr 28 2015, 05:29 PM Post #31
I think I need a doctor Posts: 539 Group: Member Member #7,814 Joined: June 23, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	sekzee Apr 28 2015, 05:17 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. GT has been declared a side-story by Toriyama, and he confirmed BOG/RF as a continuation of his story as if the manga was still in serialization. What question is there to be had here regarding canon? None. Did he actually refer to it as a continuation of the manga or just a continuation of the story? Either way, the way the series took a +10 years hiatus, it's only natural that people will make the distinction between the original series and its continuation. I'll stick with the notion that the manga is a separate entity than the films and the animes.



sekzee	Apr 28 2015, 06:02 PM Post #32
Posts: 1,336 Group: Member Member #11,101 Joined: March 25, 2014 Gender Not Specified What Browser do you use? Firefaux Favourite Manga Nein	That's fine. As long as you don't go around assuming you're right.



+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM Post #33
魔王子 Posts: 9,797 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	-Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


Raiken	Apr 28 2015, 08:55 PM Post #34
Posts: 454 Group: Member Member #7,460 Joined: March 20, 2012 Favourite Anime Naruto Shippuden What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Naruto	-Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:29 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 05:17 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. GT has been declared a side-story by Toriyama, and he confirmed BOG/RF as a continuation of his story as if the manga was still in serialization. What question is there to be had here regarding canon? None. Did he actually refer to it as a continuation of the manga or just a continuation of the story? Either way, the way the series took a +10 years hiatus, it's only natural that people will make the distinction between the original series and its continuation. I'll stick with the notion that the manga is a separate entity than the films and the animes. Well said. It's quite apparent that the Manga is generally a seperate Canon. BoG / RoF is Anime Canon GT is Non-Cannon Just the Dragonball Manga and the Dragonball Manga alone is Manga Canon. In Manga Canon: Gohan is the strongest non fused character. The Supreme Kai's are the Gods of the Universe, Daikaioshin their leader. Super Saiyan 3 is the pinnacle of Saiyan Power. Gohan was just as important of a main character as Goku and Vegeta, if not more important than Vegeta. Instead of Piccolo level importance in the new films. Importance in Manga Canon, Cell / Buu Arc: Goku = Gohan > Vegeta > Piccolo = Future Trunks = Trunks/Goten > Earthlings There's no such thing as Super Saiyan God or "God Ki". Edited by Raiken, Apr 28 2015, 09:00 PM.



Raiken	Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM Post #35
Posts: 454 Group: Member Member #7,460 Joined: March 20, 2012 Favourite Anime Naruto Shippuden What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Naruto	ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion. He didn't actually say that, it was just stated that they are a continuation of the story. GT is also a continuation of the story, does that make it canon?



lazerbem	Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM Post #36
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Even when the films contradict what is seen in the manga? I know you can call retcon, but this is some severe retconning, especially since DBZ is very linear in terms of story compared to say, Spider-Man(which can get away with some retcons due to the slice of life nature in most stories)
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


sekzee	Apr 28 2015, 08:58 PM Post #37
Posts: 1,336 Group: Member Member #11,101 Joined: March 25, 2014 Gender Not Specified What Browser do you use? Firefaux Favourite Manga Nein	Raiken Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion. He didn't actually say that, it was just stated that they are a continuation of the story. GT is also a continuation of the story, does that make it canon? Except he did say that. AT specifically called GT a side-story.



Raiken	Apr 28 2015, 09:02 PM Post #38
Posts: 454 Group: Member Member #7,460 Joined: March 20, 2012 Favourite Anime Naruto Shippuden What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Naruto	sekzee Apr 28 2015, 08:58 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion. He didn't actually say that, it was just stated that they are a continuation of the story. GT is also a continuation of the story, does that make it canon? Except he did say that. AT specifically called GT a side-story. Tier 3: Movies: Non-Canon Mini-Side Stories GT = Non-Canon Anime Continuation Tier 2: Dragonball / Dragonball Z Anime = Anime Canon BoG/RoF = Anime Canon Continuation Tier 1: The Manga = Manga Canon Edited by Raiken, Apr 28 2015, 09:04 PM.



sekzee	Apr 28 2015, 09:17 PM Post #39
Posts: 1,336 Group: Member Member #11,101 Joined: March 25, 2014 Gender Not Specified What Browser do you use? Firefaux Favourite Manga Nein	Raiken Apr 28 2015, 09:02 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 08:58 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion. He didn't actually say that, it was just stated that they are a continuation of the story. GT is also a continuation of the story, does that make it canon? Except he did say that. AT specifically called GT a side-story. Tier 3: Movies: Non-Canon Mini-Side Stories GT = Non-Canon Anime Continuation Tier 2: Dragonball / Dragonball Z Anime = Anime Canon BoG/RoF = Anime Canon Continuation Tier 1: The Manga = Manga Canon You can make up whatever tiers or hierarchies you want. No one cares. Just do not try to hold someone to follow your line of thinking. In the grand scheme of things, GT is a side-story and the recent movies are canon to the story.



-Freeman	Apr 28 2015, 09:48 PM Post #40
I think I need a doctor Posts: 539 Group: Member Member #7,814 Joined: June 23, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	sekzee Apr 28 2015, 09:17 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 09:02 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 08:58 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion. He didn't actually say that, it was just stated that they are a continuation of the story. GT is also a continuation of the story, does that make it canon? Except he did say that. AT specifically called GT a side-story. Tier 3: Movies: Non-Canon Mini-Side Stories GT = Non-Canon Anime Continuation Tier 2: Dragonball / Dragonball Z Anime = Anime Canon BoG/RoF = Anime Canon Continuation Tier 1: The Manga = Manga Canon You can make up whatever tiers or hierarchies you want. No one cares. Just do not try to hold someone to follow your line of thinking. In the grand scheme of things, GT is a side-story and the recent movies are canon to the story. Why so much resistance? Do you consider the Garlic Junior saga as canon? Because if you ask Toryiama he'll probably say yes, even though it's a filler, and all fillers are generally put aside when fans are trying to figure out things like PLs. Obviously this is a different case than a filler, but given the amount of inconsistencies/retcons these movies impose (Goku being stronger than Gohan/Gotenks being the most absurd of all), I think fans have the right to hold the manga as a separate thing from everything else.



sekzee	Apr 28 2015, 10:15 PM Post #41
Posts: 1,336 Group: Member Member #11,101 Joined: March 25, 2014 Gender Not Specified What Browser do you use? Firefaux Favourite Manga Nein	-Freeman Apr 28 2015, 09:48 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 09:17 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 09:02 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 08:58 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion. He didn't actually say that, it was just stated that they are a continuation of the story. GT is also a continuation of the story, does that make it canon? Except he did say that. AT specifically called GT a side-story. Tier 3: Movies: Non-Canon Mini-Side Stories GT = Non-Canon Anime Continuation Tier 2: Dragonball / Dragonball Z Anime = Anime Canon BoG/RoF = Anime Canon Continuation Tier 1: The Manga = Manga Canon You can make up whatever tiers or hierarchies you want. No one cares. Just do not try to hold someone to follow your line of thinking. In the grand scheme of things, GT is a side-story and the recent movies are canon to the story. Why so much resistance? Do you consider the Garlic Junior saga as canon? Because if you ask Toryiama he'll probably say yes, even though it's a filler, and all fillers are generally put aside when fans are trying to figure out things like PLs. Obviously this is a different case than a filler, but given the amount of inconsistencies/retcons these movies impose (Goku being stronger than Gohan/Gotenks being the most absurd of all), I think fans have the right to hold the manga as a separate thing from everything else. The story from which you are making those assumptions is riddled with those same inconsistencies/retcons. But when the creator of said story tells you otherwise, you cling to the idea that you are right, so he must be wrong. Arrogance, my child. Tone it down. That resistance you speak of? You're guilty of it.



-Freeman	Apr 28 2015, 10:27 PM Post #42
I think I need a doctor Posts: 539 Group: Member Member #7,814 Joined: June 23, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	sekzee Apr 28 2015, 10:15 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 09:48 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 09:17 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 09:02 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 08:58 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion. He didn't actually say that, it was just stated that they are a continuation of the story. GT is also a continuation of the story, does that make it canon? Except he did say that. AT specifically called GT a side-story. Tier 3: Movies: Non-Canon Mini-Side Stories GT = Non-Canon Anime Continuation Tier 2: Dragonball / Dragonball Z Anime = Anime Canon BoG/RoF = Anime Canon Continuation Tier 1: The Manga = Manga Canon You can make up whatever tiers or hierarchies you want. No one cares. Just do not try to hold someone to follow your line of thinking. In the grand scheme of things, GT is a side-story and the recent movies are canon to the story. Why so much resistance? Do you consider the Garlic Junior saga as canon? Because if you ask Toryiama he'll probably say yes, even though it's a filler, and all fillers are generally put aside when fans are trying to figure out things like PLs. Obviously this is a different case than a filler, but given the amount of inconsistencies/retcons these movies impose (Goku being stronger than Gohan/Gotenks being the most absurd of all), I think fans have the right to hold the manga as a separate thing from everything else. The story from which you are making those assumptions is riddled with those same inconsistencies/retcons. But when the creator of said story tells you otherwise, you cling to the idea that you are right, so he must be wrong. Arrogance, my child. Tone it down. That resistance you speak of? You're guilty of it. No it's not, there isn't a single inconsistency in the manga that completely breaks the canon, like saying Goku is stronger than Gohan. Also if postmodernism has taught us anything, and granted that's a big "if", is that as a consumer of art you are 100% entitled to argue with the artist about it. And lol you're the only one being arrogant and insufferable here. I take it from your tone that this is something of severe importance to you, sorry to have touched on something that personal for you. I've wrongly assumed we were all adults here.



sekzee	Apr 28 2015, 10:30 PM Post #43
Posts: 1,336 Group: Member Member #11,101 Joined: March 25, 2014 Gender Not Specified What Browser do you use? Firefaux Favourite Manga Nein	-Freeman Apr 28 2015, 10:27 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 10:15 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 09:48 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 09:17 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 09:02 PM sekzee Apr 28 2015, 08:58 PM Raiken Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion. He didn't actually say that, it was just stated that they are a continuation of the story. GT is also a continuation of the story, does that make it canon? Except he did say that. AT specifically called GT a side-story. Tier 3: Movies: Non-Canon Mini-Side Stories GT = Non-Canon Anime Continuation Tier 2: Dragonball / Dragonball Z Anime = Anime Canon BoG/RoF = Anime Canon Continuation Tier 1: The Manga = Manga Canon You can make up whatever tiers or hierarchies you want. No one cares. Just do not try to hold someone to follow your line of thinking. In the grand scheme of things, GT is a side-story and the recent movies are canon to the story. Why so much resistance? Do you consider the Garlic Junior saga as canon? Because if you ask Toryiama he'll probably say yes, even though it's a filler, and all fillers are generally put aside when fans are trying to figure out things like PLs. Obviously this is a different case than a filler, but given the amount of inconsistencies/retcons these movies impose (Goku being stronger than Gohan/Gotenks being the most absurd of all), I think fans have the right to hold the manga as a separate thing from everything else. The story from which you are making those assumptions is riddled with those same inconsistencies/retcons. But when the creator of said story tells you otherwise, you cling to the idea that you are right, so he must be wrong. Arrogance, my child. Tone it down. That resistance you speak of? You're guilty of it. I take it from your tone that this is something of severe importance to you, sorry to have touched on something that personal for you. I've wrongly assumed we were all adults here. Ha! That's cute. Also, that is a terrible assumption to make; I know many here are under the age of 18. You can argue with the artist, certainly, but cannot argue with his intent. You are merely arguing your interpretation. Edited by sekzee, Apr 28 2015, 10:31 PM.



+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Apr 28 2015, 10:37 PM Post #44
魔王子 Posts: 9,797 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Raiken Apr 28 2015, 08:56 PM ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 08:50 PM -Freeman Apr 28 2015, 05:04 PM Why are you trying to mix manga canon with movie/GT? Just take comfort in the fact that these movies are "anime canon", not "manga canon". I know Toriyama probably never referred to it that way, but it's much easier to just leave the manga as a separate canon from the anime/films/spin offs. Toriyama is writing these new films as if they were continuations of his manga, so I'm not really going to humor that notion. He didn't actually say that, it was just stated that they are a continuation of the story. GT is also a continuation of the story, does that make it canon? He said he wrote it as if the manga's serialization had continued: Kanzenshuu I tried thinking up an original story, imagining it as though [the manga’s] serialization had continued. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-of-gods-promotional-pamphlet-2-akira-toriyama/ GT was also written off as a side-story by Akira Toriyama, and Akira Toriyama didn't write the narrative behind GT, where he did with both these new films and this new series, Dragon Ball Super. Furthermore, your understanding of canon as a whole is rather shallow. The canon of this franchise as a whole is undefined so pretending you know what counts and what doesn't simply makes you look foolish. Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Apr 28 2015, 10:42 PM.
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Vertical	Apr 28 2015, 10:46 PM Post #45
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Apr 28 2015, 10:37 PM He said he wrote it as if the manga's serialization had continued: Kanzenshuu I tried thinking up an original story, imagining it as though [the manga’s] serialization had continued. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-of-gods-promotional-pamphlet-2-akira-toriyama/ If this were actually accurate though... in order to be a continuation... wouldn't it have to take place beyond Uub/Goku's departure? Also, original story? He was given a script written by someone else and... though he heavily edited it... it still contains key concepts presented in the original script.
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