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Why does people hate the idea that Dragonball GT follows after End of Z and FnF?
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Topic Started: Apr 23 2015, 11:56 PM (4,245 Views)
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FutureProtagonist
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Apr 25 2015, 11:46 PM
Post #46
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
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all dbz productions by toei are "canon". Filler is canon too, right?
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Apr 25 2015, 11:51 PM
Post #47
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:34 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:22 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:01 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 10:39 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 10:28 PM
- Nagito Komaeda
- Apr 25 2015, 10:21 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 10:15 PM
- Nagito Komaeda
- Apr 25 2015, 10:04 PM
''The global phenomenon Dragon Ball is being made into a movie using Toei Animation’s latest technology, consistently realized as a Toriyama work, with the original author Akira Toriyama himself deeply involve from the script stage for the first time. An episode from between the animation series “Z” and “GT”, or in other words from the blank decade between the end of the battle with Majin Buu in chapter 517 of the manga and chapter 518, will be depicted for the first time. Such well-known and charming characters as Kuririn, Piccolo, and Vegeta will all make an appearance. A new story in the official history of Dragon Ball is born, neither a spin-off nor a side-story, one that can be enjoyed by both children and parents, manga fans and anime fans.'' http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2012/09/26/toeis-press-release-for-upcoming-dragon-ball-z-movie/That's a passive dismissal of GT if I ever saw one. If GT was canon, why would they make a big thing about Battle of Gods not being a side-story, and instead being 'a new story in the official history of Dragon Ball'? It's implying that something can't be both of those things.
they said that BOG isnt a side-story simply because it is not a side-story. it is equivalent to a chapter of the main story which is dbz. the same interview states that BOG happens between the boo saga and GT yet you think GT is being dismissed? that line of thinking isnt something thats understandable. GT is a story in the official history of dragonball however, it is a side-story. BOG is simply dbz history not shown before, nothing more.
Keep in mind that Toriyama stated that Goku wasn't going to use SSJ2/SSJ3 after BoG, as he's decided that they're not worth the strain, yet he uses SSJ3 several times in GT. Poor Z-fighters. Goku's quite possibly the worst character in the history of fiction. He completely ignored Beerus and Whis, who could've been an immense help with both their power and Whis' ability to reverse time. They also must've wished to Shenron to make Pilaf and his gang very old. Quite malicious, really.
what you are pointing out are called inconsistencies. this doesnt have any bearing on whats part of the continuity and beerus and whis not being talked about in GT isnt an inconsistency.
They aren't just inconsistencies though, they are essentially retcons of major plot elements. There are ways to reconcile the minor inconsistencies present in the manga or anime, but these aren't things you gloss over, as I've said previously. Beerus and Whis not being referenced are inconsistencies because Boo is referenced as a major threat, which doesn't make sense given that Beerus and Whis are much much much stronger. - SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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side story can in no way be construed as "not part of the continuity". naruto gaiden is a side story to naruto. kakashis gaiden is a side story in naruto. GT is dragonballs side story. all of these stories happen alongside or after the main story and they are a part of the main continuity of the story they follow. if you dont understand, there are others that explain this with more detail. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29426
This doesn't explain where you got your definition of side-story from. As it stands now, you're fabricating one to serve your purposes. I've also read that thread on Kanzenshuu, and you seem to have completely missed it's point. It exists to determine whether GT is canon or not, not whether it exists within the same continuity as Battle of Gods or even the manga itself.
no, they are simply inconsistencies. bigger inconsistencies than you would like, but still just inconsistencies. boo is never referenced as a major threat in GT. im not sure how you came to that conclusion. i know what the point of the thread was. you seemed to miss the point of my post. you are basically claiming that side stories are not a part of the continuity and i gave you multiple examples of side stories that are part of the main continuity of their series. that thread was to help you understand what a side story is. ive given you multiple examples of a side story. they are all stories that happen alongside or after the main story. im not fabricating anything. if you dont want to accept it, thats your problem. im not going to keep repeating myself while you put your hands over your ears and refuse to listen to reason. Inconsistencies that can't be reconciled are too big a deal. You gave me multiple examples of what YOU think are side-stories. Find me the definition you abide by and we'll talk. Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity, and the thread you provided doesn't attempt to suggest otherwise, in fact several people in said thread agree with my sentiment. Honestly, your the one putting your hands over your ears and screaming into the void.
the bold is simply your opinion. those inconsistencies didnt stop a head of the series from putting GT and BOG in the same continuity. naruto gaiden(which means side story) is outright stated to be a side-story to naruto and so is kakashi gaiden. they are all side stories. they are part of the main continuity of their series. side story doesnt mean "not part of the main continuity". stop talking about things which you know nothing about.
My opinion? Ok, why is Boo used to measure strength instead of Beerus and Whis when Goku should be around their level? Why does Goku not use SSJGSSJ when Toriyama flat out stated Goku wouldn't use SSJ2 and SSJ3 anymore? Why doesn't Freeza use his Golden form? Why is Freeza not stuck in a cocoon on a tree in Hell? Have fun reconciling those. And again, GT isn't necessarily part of it's continuity. Ugh, side-story doesn't have a universally agreed upon definition. Seriously, try googling side-story. Also, you're getting snippy again, I suggest toning it down. are you talking about gokus statement about rildo? 1st form rildo is leagues stronger than boo but not as strong as whis, beerus, FnF full power golden frieza or FnF ssjgssj goku and vegeta.
GT ended way before BOG was produced. im pretty sure thats why its not 100% consistent with the new movies, just like EOZ isnt 100% consistent with the new movies either.
if side story doesnt have a universally agreed upon definition by your own logic, then why did you say this?:
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
"Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity"
looks like ive proven your definition wrong. a side story is simply a story that happens alongside or after the main story. that definition is supported by basically every work in literature labeled as a side story.
GT is part of the main continuity because toei said so. i dont know what you are arguing about by this point.
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* Yu Narukami
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Apr 25 2015, 11:54 PM
Post #48
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Izanagi!
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If GT were canon, Toei and Toriyama wouldn't have risked many inconsistencies. The fact that they've gone and flagrantly contradicted a lot of stuff that happened in GT shows that they don't really hold it in high regard. BoG and FnF could've been made so that they weren't inconsistent with GT, it was perfectly possible.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Apr 26 2015, 12:04 AM
Post #49
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- FutureProtagonist
- Apr 25 2015, 11:46 PM
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all dbz productions by toei are "canon".
Filler is canon too, right? yes, although the purpose of filler was to keep the anime from getting too close to the manga. any official work under the dbz name would be "canon". the correct term here is "continuity".
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Apr 26 2015, 12:17 AM
Post #50
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魔王子
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- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:51 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:34 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:22 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:01 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 10:39 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 10:28 PM
- Nagito Komaeda
- Apr 25 2015, 10:21 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 10:15 PM
- Nagito Komaeda
- Apr 25 2015, 10:04 PM
''The global phenomenon Dragon Ball is being made into a movie using Toei Animation’s latest technology, consistently realized as a Toriyama work, with the original author Akira Toriyama himself deeply involve from the script stage for the first time. An episode from between the animation series “Z” and “GT”, or in other words from the blank decade between the end of the battle with Majin Buu in chapter 517 of the manga and chapter 518, will be depicted for the first time. Such well-known and charming characters as Kuririn, Piccolo, and Vegeta will all make an appearance. A new story in the official history of Dragon Ball is born, neither a spin-off nor a side-story, one that can be enjoyed by both children and parents, manga fans and anime fans.'' http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2012/09/26/toeis-press-release-for-upcoming-dragon-ball-z-movie/That's a passive dismissal of GT if I ever saw one. If GT was canon, why would they make a big thing about Battle of Gods not being a side-story, and instead being 'a new story in the official history of Dragon Ball'? It's implying that something can't be both of those things.
they said that BOG isnt a side-story simply because it is not a side-story. it is equivalent to a chapter of the main story which is dbz. the same interview states that BOG happens between the boo saga and GT yet you think GT is being dismissed? that line of thinking isnt something thats understandable. GT is a story in the official history of dragonball however, it is a side-story. BOG is simply dbz history not shown before, nothing more.
Keep in mind that Toriyama stated that Goku wasn't going to use SSJ2/SSJ3 after BoG, as he's decided that they're not worth the strain, yet he uses SSJ3 several times in GT. Poor Z-fighters. Goku's quite possibly the worst character in the history of fiction. He completely ignored Beerus and Whis, who could've been an immense help with both their power and Whis' ability to reverse time. They also must've wished to Shenron to make Pilaf and his gang very old. Quite malicious, really.
what you are pointing out are called inconsistencies. this doesnt have any bearing on whats part of the continuity and beerus and whis not being talked about in GT isnt an inconsistency.
They aren't just inconsistencies though, they are essentially retcons of major plot elements. There are ways to reconcile the minor inconsistencies present in the manga or anime, but these aren't things you gloss over, as I've said previously. Beerus and Whis not being referenced are inconsistencies because Boo is referenced as a major threat, which doesn't make sense given that Beerus and Whis are much much much stronger. - SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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side story can in no way be construed as "not part of the continuity". naruto gaiden is a side story to naruto. kakashis gaiden is a side story in naruto. GT is dragonballs side story. all of these stories happen alongside or after the main story and they are a part of the main continuity of the story they follow. if you dont understand, there are others that explain this with more detail. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29426
This doesn't explain where you got your definition of side-story from. As it stands now, you're fabricating one to serve your purposes. I've also read that thread on Kanzenshuu, and you seem to have completely missed it's point. It exists to determine whether GT is canon or not, not whether it exists within the same continuity as Battle of Gods or even the manga itself.
no, they are simply inconsistencies. bigger inconsistencies than you would like, but still just inconsistencies. boo is never referenced as a major threat in GT. im not sure how you came to that conclusion. i know what the point of the thread was. you seemed to miss the point of my post. you are basically claiming that side stories are not a part of the continuity and i gave you multiple examples of side stories that are part of the main continuity of their series. that thread was to help you understand what a side story is. ive given you multiple examples of a side story. they are all stories that happen alongside or after the main story. im not fabricating anything. if you dont want to accept it, thats your problem. im not going to keep repeating myself while you put your hands over your ears and refuse to listen to reason. Inconsistencies that can't be reconciled are too big a deal. You gave me multiple examples of what YOU think are side-stories. Find me the definition you abide by and we'll talk. Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity, and the thread you provided doesn't attempt to suggest otherwise, in fact several people in said thread agree with my sentiment. Honestly, your the one putting your hands over your ears and screaming into the void.
the bold is simply your opinion. those inconsistencies didnt stop a head of the series from putting GT and BOG in the same continuity. naruto gaiden(which means side story) is outright stated to be a side-story to naruto and so is kakashi gaiden. they are all side stories. they are part of the main continuity of their series. side story doesnt mean "not part of the main continuity". stop talking about things which you know nothing about.
My opinion? Ok, why is Boo used to measure strength instead of Beerus and Whis when Goku should be around their level? Why does Goku not use SSJGSSJ when Toriyama flat out stated Goku wouldn't use SSJ2 and SSJ3 anymore? Why doesn't Freeza use his Golden form? Why is Freeza not stuck in a cocoon on a tree in Hell? Have fun reconciling those. And again, GT isn't necessarily part of it's continuity. Ugh, side-story doesn't have a universally agreed upon definition. Seriously, try googling side-story. Also, you're getting snippy again, I suggest toning it down.
are you talking about gokus statement about rildo? 1st form rildo is leagues stronger than boo but not as strong as whis, beerus, FnF full power golden frieza or FnF ssjgssj goku and vegeta. GT ended way before BOG was produced. im pretty sure thats why its not 100% consistent with the new movies, just like EOZ isnt 100% consistent with the new movies either. if side story doesnt have a universally agreed upon definition by your own logic, then why did you say this?: - ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
"Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity"
looks like ive proven your definition wrong. a side story is simply a story that happens alongside or after the main story. that definition is supported by basically every work in literature labeled as a side story. GT is part of the main continuity because toei said so. i dont know what you are arguing about by this point. Ledric, Rildo, Bebi, the Shadow Dragons, etc. Rildo not being at least as powerful as SSJ God Goku is a big problem considering Goku has likely gotten much stronger since Battle of Gods, and has to use SSJ to beat Rildo. If Goku isn't anywhere near as strong as he was in those films, that presents a problem for Freeza, who should also be around as strong as the gods, yet gets ragdolled by base Goku.
That is an out-of-universe answer that won't reconcile the inconsistencies in-universe.
That's the definition I abide by in this case.
Toei didn't say so though. You're assuming it exists as part of the same continuity, which again is completely unsupported by the content within BoG and RF. If you're incapable of understanding what I'm trying to convey, perhaps it's best if you left the conversation. As it stands now, you repeating the same sentiment without the proper evidence to support yourself.
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FutureProtagonist
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Apr 26 2015, 12:35 AM
Post #51
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
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So, all filler takes place in a different continuity? All the movies take place in a different continuity? GT takes place in a different continuity?
The obvious answer, though I disagree with your definition of canon, is that GT exists in a different continuity from Battle of Gods. Plenty of the movies don't follow events in the manga. For example, Movie 4 takes place in a universe where Goku defeated Freeza without turning Super Saiyan. Freeza was mentioned by Kaio, so he exists and has fought Goku in that universe; that much is indisputable. For another example, in Movie 7, all the androids have been destroyed, yet neither Goku nor Vegeta have entered the RoSaT. For a third example, in movie 12, Gotenks is post-RoSaT, Gohan is not Ultimate and Super Boo is dead. All three of these cases diverge from the manga in major ways.
In GT, there are many contradictions to Battle of Gods, all of which have already been outlined in this thread. It stands to reason that in the universe GT exists in is a universe where Battle of Gods and RoF never existed. Just like those other Toei produced works exist in (non-canon) continuities where certain manga events didn't happen. If you want an explanation, Beerus simply never woke up and slept for another 100 years or something.
I can add one more contradiction to the list: in RoF (and arguably Battle of Gods as well), Gohan has lost his Ultimate form somehow, this is evident by the implication that Good Boo is their strongest fighter, next to Goku and Vegeta. in GT, he has it, as the Perfect Files state that GT Gohan > Z Gohan.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Apr 26 2015, 12:51 AM
Post #52
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 26 2015, 12:17 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:51 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:34 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:22 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:01 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 10:39 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 10:28 PM
- Nagito Komaeda
- Apr 25 2015, 10:21 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 10:15 PM
Keep in mind that Toriyama stated that Goku wasn't going to use SSJ2/SSJ3 after BoG, as he's decided that they're not worth the strain, yet he uses SSJ3 several times in GT. Poor Z-fighters. Goku's quite possibly the worst character in the history of fiction. He completely ignored Beerus and Whis, who could've been an immense help with both their power and Whis' ability to reverse time. They also must've wished to Shenron to make Pilaf and his gang very old. Quite malicious, really.
what you are pointing out are called inconsistencies. this doesnt have any bearing on whats part of the continuity and beerus and whis not being talked about in GT isnt an inconsistency.
They aren't just inconsistencies though, they are essentially retcons of major plot elements. There are ways to reconcile the minor inconsistencies present in the manga or anime, but these aren't things you gloss over, as I've said previously. Beerus and Whis not being referenced are inconsistencies because Boo is referenced as a major threat, which doesn't make sense given that Beerus and Whis are much much much stronger. - SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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side story can in no way be construed as "not part of the continuity". naruto gaiden is a side story to naruto. kakashis gaiden is a side story in naruto. GT is dragonballs side story. all of these stories happen alongside or after the main story and they are a part of the main continuity of the story they follow. if you dont understand, there are others that explain this with more detail. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29426
This doesn't explain where you got your definition of side-story from. As it stands now, you're fabricating one to serve your purposes. I've also read that thread on Kanzenshuu, and you seem to have completely missed it's point. It exists to determine whether GT is canon or not, not whether it exists within the same continuity as Battle of Gods or even the manga itself.
no, they are simply inconsistencies. bigger inconsistencies than you would like, but still just inconsistencies. boo is never referenced as a major threat in GT. im not sure how you came to that conclusion. i know what the point of the thread was. you seemed to miss the point of my post. you are basically claiming that side stories are not a part of the continuity and i gave you multiple examples of side stories that are part of the main continuity of their series. that thread was to help you understand what a side story is. ive given you multiple examples of a side story. they are all stories that happen alongside or after the main story. im not fabricating anything. if you dont want to accept it, thats your problem. im not going to keep repeating myself while you put your hands over your ears and refuse to listen to reason. Inconsistencies that can't be reconciled are too big a deal. You gave me multiple examples of what YOU think are side-stories. Find me the definition you abide by and we'll talk. Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity, and the thread you provided doesn't attempt to suggest otherwise, in fact several people in said thread agree with my sentiment. Honestly, your the one putting your hands over your ears and screaming into the void.
the bold is simply your opinion. those inconsistencies didnt stop a head of the series from putting GT and BOG in the same continuity. naruto gaiden(which means side story) is outright stated to be a side-story to naruto and so is kakashi gaiden. they are all side stories. they are part of the main continuity of their series. side story doesnt mean "not part of the main continuity". stop talking about things which you know nothing about.
My opinion? Ok, why is Boo used to measure strength instead of Beerus and Whis when Goku should be around their level? Why does Goku not use SSJGSSJ when Toriyama flat out stated Goku wouldn't use SSJ2 and SSJ3 anymore? Why doesn't Freeza use his Golden form? Why is Freeza not stuck in a cocoon on a tree in Hell? Have fun reconciling those. And again, GT isn't necessarily part of it's continuity. Ugh, side-story doesn't have a universally agreed upon definition. Seriously, try googling side-story. Also, you're getting snippy again, I suggest toning it down.
are you talking about gokus statement about rildo? 1st form rildo is leagues stronger than boo but not as strong as whis, beerus, FnF full power golden frieza or FnF ssjgssj goku and vegeta. GT ended way before BOG was produced. im pretty sure thats why its not 100% consistent with the new movies, just like EOZ isnt 100% consistent with the new movies either. if side story doesnt have a universally agreed upon definition by your own logic, then why did you say this?: - ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
"Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity"
looks like ive proven your definition wrong. a side story is simply a story that happens alongside or after the main story. that definition is supported by basically every work in literature labeled as a side story. GT is part of the main continuity because toei said so. i dont know what you are arguing about by this point.
Ledric, Rildo, Bebi, the Shadow Dragons, etc. Rildo not being at least as powerful as SSJ God Goku is a big problem considering Goku has likely gotten much stronger since Battle of Gods, and has to use SSJ to beat Rildo. If Goku isn't anywhere near as strong as he was in those films, that presents a problem for Freeza, who should also be around as strong as the gods, yet gets ragdolled by base Goku. That is an out-of-universe answer that won't reconcile the inconsistencies in-universe. That's the definition I abide by in this case. Toei didn't say so though. You're assuming it exists as part of the same continuity, which again is completely unsupported by the content within BoG and RF. If you're incapable of understanding what I'm trying to convey, perhaps it's best if you left the conversation. As it stands now, you repeating the same sentiment without the proper evidence to support yourself. wait, what are you talking about? GT goku would be much stronger than beerus and whis as an ssj and weaker than them in base. final form rildo being above GT ssj goku puts him way above beerus and whis. goku made bigger gains through his training than freeza did training with cell. thats why base goku destroyed both of them.
toei said that BOG happened before GT and after the boo saga. your argument makes no sense. there isnt any other way to interpret that outside of personal bias. if GT happened in a different continuity then that would mean that BOG did not happen before GT, since they would not be part of the same timeline. thats contradicted by toeis statement.
im not assuming anything. you dont get to arbitrarily decide that something isnt a part of the continuity. unless noted otherwise, the only dbz productions that are not part of the main continuity are movies 1-13.
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FutureProtagonist
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Apr 26 2015, 12:58 AM
Post #53
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
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wait, what are you talking about? GT goku would be much stronger than beerus and whis as an ssj and weaker than them in base. final form rildo being above GT ssj goku puts him way above beerus and whis. So, he's stronger than Whis, but Goku compares him to Boo?
That's like Vegeta saying to Goku (during the Namek arc) "Freeza is incredibly powerful. He's even stronger than Nappa."
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Apr 26 2015, 01:08 AM
Post #54
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- FutureProtagonist
- Apr 26 2015, 12:58 AM
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wait, what are you talking about? GT goku would be much stronger than beerus and whis as an ssj and weaker than them in base. final form rildo being above GT ssj goku puts him way above beerus and whis.
So, he's stronger than Whis, but Goku compares him to Boo? That's like Vegeta saying to Goku (during the Namek arc) "Freeza is incredibly powerful. He's even stronger than Nappa." goku said that 1st form rildo was stronger than boo. 1st form rildo isnt stronger than the gods. rildo is stronger than them in his final form.
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Apr 26 2015, 01:19 AM
Post #55
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魔王子
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- Apr 26 2015, 12:51 AM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 26 2015, 12:17 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:51 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:34 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:22 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:01 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 10:39 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 10:28 PM
- Nagito Komaeda
- Apr 25 2015, 10:21 PM
what you are pointing out are called inconsistencies. this doesnt have any bearing on whats part of the continuity and beerus and whis not being talked about in GT isnt an inconsistency.
They aren't just inconsistencies though, they are essentially retcons of major plot elements. There are ways to reconcile the minor inconsistencies present in the manga or anime, but these aren't things you gloss over, as I've said previously. Beerus and Whis not being referenced are inconsistencies because Boo is referenced as a major threat, which doesn't make sense given that Beerus and Whis are much much much stronger. - SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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side story can in no way be construed as "not part of the continuity". naruto gaiden is a side story to naruto. kakashis gaiden is a side story in naruto. GT is dragonballs side story. all of these stories happen alongside or after the main story and they are a part of the main continuity of the story they follow. if you dont understand, there are others that explain this with more detail. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29426
This doesn't explain where you got your definition of side-story from. As it stands now, you're fabricating one to serve your purposes. I've also read that thread on Kanzenshuu, and you seem to have completely missed it's point. It exists to determine whether GT is canon or not, not whether it exists within the same continuity as Battle of Gods or even the manga itself.
no, they are simply inconsistencies. bigger inconsistencies than you would like, but still just inconsistencies. boo is never referenced as a major threat in GT. im not sure how you came to that conclusion. i know what the point of the thread was. you seemed to miss the point of my post. you are basically claiming that side stories are not a part of the continuity and i gave you multiple examples of side stories that are part of the main continuity of their series. that thread was to help you understand what a side story is. ive given you multiple examples of a side story. they are all stories that happen alongside or after the main story. im not fabricating anything. if you dont want to accept it, thats your problem. im not going to keep repeating myself while you put your hands over your ears and refuse to listen to reason. Inconsistencies that can't be reconciled are too big a deal. You gave me multiple examples of what YOU think are side-stories. Find me the definition you abide by and we'll talk. Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity, and the thread you provided doesn't attempt to suggest otherwise, in fact several people in said thread agree with my sentiment. Honestly, your the one putting your hands over your ears and screaming into the void.
the bold is simply your opinion. those inconsistencies didnt stop a head of the series from putting GT and BOG in the same continuity. naruto gaiden(which means side story) is outright stated to be a side-story to naruto and so is kakashi gaiden. they are all side stories. they are part of the main continuity of their series. side story doesnt mean "not part of the main continuity". stop talking about things which you know nothing about.
My opinion? Ok, why is Boo used to measure strength instead of Beerus and Whis when Goku should be around their level? Why does Goku not use SSJGSSJ when Toriyama flat out stated Goku wouldn't use SSJ2 and SSJ3 anymore? Why doesn't Freeza use his Golden form? Why is Freeza not stuck in a cocoon on a tree in Hell? Have fun reconciling those. And again, GT isn't necessarily part of it's continuity. Ugh, side-story doesn't have a universally agreed upon definition. Seriously, try googling side-story. Also, you're getting snippy again, I suggest toning it down.
are you talking about gokus statement about rildo? 1st form rildo is leagues stronger than boo but not as strong as whis, beerus, FnF full power golden frieza or FnF ssjgssj goku and vegeta. GT ended way before BOG was produced. im pretty sure thats why its not 100% consistent with the new movies, just like EOZ isnt 100% consistent with the new movies either. if side story doesnt have a universally agreed upon definition by your own logic, then why did you say this?: - ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
"Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity"
looks like ive proven your definition wrong. a side story is simply a story that happens alongside or after the main story. that definition is supported by basically every work in literature labeled as a side story. GT is part of the main continuity because toei said so. i dont know what you are arguing about by this point.
Ledric, Rildo, Bebi, the Shadow Dragons, etc. Rildo not being at least as powerful as SSJ God Goku is a big problem considering Goku has likely gotten much stronger since Battle of Gods, and has to use SSJ to beat Rildo. If Goku isn't anywhere near as strong as he was in those films, that presents a problem for Freeza, who should also be around as strong as the gods, yet gets ragdolled by base Goku. That is an out-of-universe answer that won't reconcile the inconsistencies in-universe. That's the definition I abide by in this case. Toei didn't say so though. You're assuming it exists as part of the same continuity, which again is completely unsupported by the content within BoG and RF. If you're incapable of understanding what I'm trying to convey, perhaps it's best if you left the conversation. As it stands now, you repeating the same sentiment without the proper evidence to support yourself.
wait, what are you talking about? GT goku would be much stronger than beerus and whis as an ssj and weaker than them in base. final form rildo being above GT ssj goku puts him way above beerus and whis. goku made bigger gains through his training than freeza did training with cell. thats why base goku destroyed both of them. toei said that BOG happened before GT and after the boo saga. your argument makes no sense. there isnt any other way to interpret that outside of personal bias. if GT happened in a different continuity then that would mean that BOG did not happen before GT, since they would not be part of the same timeline. thats contradicted by toeis statement. im not assuming anything. you dont get to arbitrarily decide that something isnt a part of the continuity. unless noted otherwise, the only dbz productions that are not part of the main continuity are movies 1-13. Base Goku should be much much much stronger than Boo though, so why is base Rildo being stronger than Boo supposed to be impressive? Why is Goku suddenly making bigger gains than Freeza? Freeza got stronger than Godku in 4 months. You expect me to believe base Goku has gotten stronger than Freeza who has continually been getting stronger since then? It does happen before GT as it takes place in age 778 while GT takes place in age 789. Whether they are part of the same continuity or not is irrelevant. Arbitrarily decide? Have you not been paying attention? All these retcons provide me with ample evidence against it's the idea that BoG and RF exist within the same continuity as GT. Shueisha hasn't confirmed they exist within the same continuity, so I can use those retcons as evidence against GT. Seriously, this is getting tiresome. I don't believe Battle of Gods exists as part of GT's continuity, and I never will. You're wasting your time trying convince me or anyone otherwise.
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Amerson26
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Apr 26 2015, 01:29 AM
Post #56
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for one i hate the fact that pan is around vegito level. or that just what people say
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Apr 26 2015, 01:41 AM
Post #57
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 26 2015, 01:19 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 26 2015, 12:51 AM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 26 2015, 12:17 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:51 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:34 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:22 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:01 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 10:39 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 10:28 PM
They aren't just inconsistencies though, they are essentially retcons of major plot elements. There are ways to reconcile the minor inconsistencies present in the manga or anime, but these aren't things you gloss over, as I've said previously. Beerus and Whis not being referenced are inconsistencies because Boo is referenced as a major threat, which doesn't make sense given that Beerus and Whis are much much much stronger. - SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
-
side story can in no way be construed as "not part of the continuity". naruto gaiden is a side story to naruto. kakashis gaiden is a side story in naruto. GT is dragonballs side story. all of these stories happen alongside or after the main story and they are a part of the main continuity of the story they follow. if you dont understand, there are others that explain this with more detail. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29426
This doesn't explain where you got your definition of side-story from. As it stands now, you're fabricating one to serve your purposes. I've also read that thread on Kanzenshuu, and you seem to have completely missed it's point. It exists to determine whether GT is canon or not, not whether it exists within the same continuity as Battle of Gods or even the manga itself.
no, they are simply inconsistencies. bigger inconsistencies than you would like, but still just inconsistencies. boo is never referenced as a major threat in GT. im not sure how you came to that conclusion. i know what the point of the thread was. you seemed to miss the point of my post. you are basically claiming that side stories are not a part of the continuity and i gave you multiple examples of side stories that are part of the main continuity of their series. that thread was to help you understand what a side story is. ive given you multiple examples of a side story. they are all stories that happen alongside or after the main story. im not fabricating anything. if you dont want to accept it, thats your problem. im not going to keep repeating myself while you put your hands over your ears and refuse to listen to reason. Inconsistencies that can't be reconciled are too big a deal. You gave me multiple examples of what YOU think are side-stories. Find me the definition you abide by and we'll talk. Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity, and the thread you provided doesn't attempt to suggest otherwise, in fact several people in said thread agree with my sentiment. Honestly, your the one putting your hands over your ears and screaming into the void.
the bold is simply your opinion. those inconsistencies didnt stop a head of the series from putting GT and BOG in the same continuity. naruto gaiden(which means side story) is outright stated to be a side-story to naruto and so is kakashi gaiden. they are all side stories. they are part of the main continuity of their series. side story doesnt mean "not part of the main continuity". stop talking about things which you know nothing about.
My opinion? Ok, why is Boo used to measure strength instead of Beerus and Whis when Goku should be around their level? Why does Goku not use SSJGSSJ when Toriyama flat out stated Goku wouldn't use SSJ2 and SSJ3 anymore? Why doesn't Freeza use his Golden form? Why is Freeza not stuck in a cocoon on a tree in Hell? Have fun reconciling those. And again, GT isn't necessarily part of it's continuity. Ugh, side-story doesn't have a universally agreed upon definition. Seriously, try googling side-story. Also, you're getting snippy again, I suggest toning it down.
are you talking about gokus statement about rildo? 1st form rildo is leagues stronger than boo but not as strong as whis, beerus, FnF full power golden frieza or FnF ssjgssj goku and vegeta. GT ended way before BOG was produced. im pretty sure thats why its not 100% consistent with the new movies, just like EOZ isnt 100% consistent with the new movies either. if side story doesnt have a universally agreed upon definition by your own logic, then why did you say this?: - ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
"Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity"
looks like ive proven your definition wrong. a side story is simply a story that happens alongside or after the main story. that definition is supported by basically every work in literature labeled as a side story. GT is part of the main continuity because toei said so. i dont know what you are arguing about by this point.
Ledric, Rildo, Bebi, the Shadow Dragons, etc. Rildo not being at least as powerful as SSJ God Goku is a big problem considering Goku has likely gotten much stronger since Battle of Gods, and has to use SSJ to beat Rildo. If Goku isn't anywhere near as strong as he was in those films, that presents a problem for Freeza, who should also be around as strong as the gods, yet gets ragdolled by base Goku. That is an out-of-universe answer that won't reconcile the inconsistencies in-universe. That's the definition I abide by in this case. Toei didn't say so though. You're assuming it exists as part of the same continuity, which again is completely unsupported by the content within BoG and RF. If you're incapable of understanding what I'm trying to convey, perhaps it's best if you left the conversation. As it stands now, you repeating the same sentiment without the proper evidence to support yourself.
wait, what are you talking about? GT goku would be much stronger than beerus and whis as an ssj and weaker than them in base. final form rildo being above GT ssj goku puts him way above beerus and whis. goku made bigger gains through his training than freeza did training with cell. thats why base goku destroyed both of them. toei said that BOG happened before GT and after the boo saga. your argument makes no sense. there isnt any other way to interpret that outside of personal bias. if GT happened in a different continuity then that would mean that BOG did not happen before GT, since they would not be part of the same timeline. thats contradicted by toeis statement. im not assuming anything. you dont get to arbitrarily decide that something isnt a part of the continuity. unless noted otherwise, the only dbz productions that are not part of the main continuity are movies 1-13.
Base Goku should be much much much stronger than Boo though, so why is base Rildo being stronger than Boo supposed to be impressive? Why is Goku suddenly making bigger gains than Freeza? Freeza got stronger than Godku in 4 months. You expect me to believe base Goku has gotten stronger than Freeza who has continually been getting stronger since then? It does happen before GT as it takes place in age 778 while GT takes place in age 789. Whether they are part of the same continuity or not is irrelevant. Arbitrarily decide? Have you not been paying attention? All these retcons provide me with ample evidence against it's the idea that BoG and RF exist within the same continuity as GT. Shueisha hasn't confirmed they exist within the same continuity, so I can use those retcons as evidence against GT. Seriously, this is getting tiresome. I don't believe Battle of Gods exists as part of GT's continuity, and I never will. You're wasting your time trying convince me or anyone otherwise. the hell? you are the one that responded to me in the first place, so dont make it seem like im trying oh so hard to change your mind.
-goku was merely stating the obvious. rildo was stronger than boo. -freeza didnt have a training partner on par with him like goku did. an out of universe explanation is that toei wanted goku to be stronger, so he was stronger than freeza.
-if BOG and GT are not in the same timeline then it follows that GT did not happen after BOG. they would exist independently of each other in different timelines. thats like saying that the boo saga happened before trunks' final battle with the androids. it didnt.
toeis stating that GT happened after BOG means that these events happened one after the other which would indeed make them a part of the same continuity.
you dont have any evidence. any nonbiased party would be able to see that. you're no different than any other deluded fan. when you buy the rights to the series from toei, you can invalidate GT as much as you want.
again inconsistencies have nothing to do with whats part of the continuity. toei put GT, BOG and FnF into one continuity. what you dont want to believe or dont like is completely irrelevant.
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lucrowe
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Apr 26 2015, 01:42 AM
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- Amerson26
- Apr 26 2015, 01:29 AM
for one i hate the fact that pan is around vegito level. or that just what people say That's what people say. I don't believe it for a second
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Apr 26 2015, 01:48 AM
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魔王子
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- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 26 2015, 01:41 AM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 26 2015, 01:19 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 26 2015, 12:51 AM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 26 2015, 12:17 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:51 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:34 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:22 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
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- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Apr 25 2015, 11:01 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 10:39 PM
no, they are simply inconsistencies. bigger inconsistencies than you would like, but still just inconsistencies. boo is never referenced as a major threat in GT. im not sure how you came to that conclusion. i know what the point of the thread was. you seemed to miss the point of my post. you are basically claiming that side stories are not a part of the continuity and i gave you multiple examples of side stories that are part of the main continuity of their series. that thread was to help you understand what a side story is. ive given you multiple examples of a side story. they are all stories that happen alongside or after the main story. im not fabricating anything. if you dont want to accept it, thats your problem. im not going to keep repeating myself while you put your hands over your ears and refuse to listen to reason. Inconsistencies that can't be reconciled are too big a deal. You gave me multiple examples of what YOU think are side-stories. Find me the definition you abide by and we'll talk. Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity, and the thread you provided doesn't attempt to suggest otherwise, in fact several people in said thread agree with my sentiment. Honestly, your the one putting your hands over your ears and screaming into the void.
the bold is simply your opinion. those inconsistencies didnt stop a head of the series from putting GT and BOG in the same continuity. naruto gaiden(which means side story) is outright stated to be a side-story to naruto and so is kakashi gaiden. they are all side stories. they are part of the main continuity of their series. side story doesnt mean "not part of the main continuity". stop talking about things which you know nothing about.
My opinion? Ok, why is Boo used to measure strength instead of Beerus and Whis when Goku should be around their level? Why does Goku not use SSJGSSJ when Toriyama flat out stated Goku wouldn't use SSJ2 and SSJ3 anymore? Why doesn't Freeza use his Golden form? Why is Freeza not stuck in a cocoon on a tree in Hell? Have fun reconciling those. And again, GT isn't necessarily part of it's continuity. Ugh, side-story doesn't have a universally agreed upon definition. Seriously, try googling side-story. Also, you're getting snippy again, I suggest toning it down.
are you talking about gokus statement about rildo? 1st form rildo is leagues stronger than boo but not as strong as whis, beerus, FnF full power golden frieza or FnF ssjgssj goku and vegeta. GT ended way before BOG was produced. im pretty sure thats why its not 100% consistent with the new movies, just like EOZ isnt 100% consistent with the new movies either. if side story doesnt have a universally agreed upon definition by your own logic, then why did you say this?: - ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Apr 25 2015, 11:08 PM
"Side-stories are stories that exist as a separate branch of a continuity"
looks like ive proven your definition wrong. a side story is simply a story that happens alongside or after the main story. that definition is supported by basically every work in literature labeled as a side story. GT is part of the main continuity because toei said so. i dont know what you are arguing about by this point.
Ledric, Rildo, Bebi, the Shadow Dragons, etc. Rildo not being at least as powerful as SSJ God Goku is a big problem considering Goku has likely gotten much stronger since Battle of Gods, and has to use SSJ to beat Rildo. If Goku isn't anywhere near as strong as he was in those films, that presents a problem for Freeza, who should also be around as strong as the gods, yet gets ragdolled by base Goku. That is an out-of-universe answer that won't reconcile the inconsistencies in-universe. That's the definition I abide by in this case. Toei didn't say so though. You're assuming it exists as part of the same continuity, which again is completely unsupported by the content within BoG and RF. If you're incapable of understanding what I'm trying to convey, perhaps it's best if you left the conversation. As it stands now, you repeating the same sentiment without the proper evidence to support yourself.
wait, what are you talking about? GT goku would be much stronger than beerus and whis as an ssj and weaker than them in base. final form rildo being above GT ssj goku puts him way above beerus and whis. goku made bigger gains through his training than freeza did training with cell. thats why base goku destroyed both of them. toei said that BOG happened before GT and after the boo saga. your argument makes no sense. there isnt any other way to interpret that outside of personal bias. if GT happened in a different continuity then that would mean that BOG did not happen before GT, since they would not be part of the same timeline. thats contradicted by toeis statement. im not assuming anything. you dont get to arbitrarily decide that something isnt a part of the continuity. unless noted otherwise, the only dbz productions that are not part of the main continuity are movies 1-13.
Base Goku should be much much much stronger than Boo though, so why is base Rildo being stronger than Boo supposed to be impressive? Why is Goku suddenly making bigger gains than Freeza? Freeza got stronger than Godku in 4 months. You expect me to believe base Goku has gotten stronger than Freeza who has continually been getting stronger since then? It does happen before GT as it takes place in age 778 while GT takes place in age 789. Whether they are part of the same continuity or not is irrelevant. Arbitrarily decide? Have you not been paying attention? All these retcons provide me with ample evidence against it's the idea that BoG and RF exist within the same continuity as GT. Shueisha hasn't confirmed they exist within the same continuity, so I can use those retcons as evidence against GT. Seriously, this is getting tiresome. I don't believe Battle of Gods exists as part of GT's continuity, and I never will. You're wasting your time trying convince me or anyone otherwise.
the hell? you are the one that responded to me in the first place, so dont make it seem like im trying oh so hard to change your mind. -goku was merely stating the obvious. rildo was stronger than boo. -freeza didnt have a training partner on par with him like goku did. an out of universe explanation is that toei wanted goku to be stronger, so he was stronger than freeza. -if BOG and GT are not in the same timeline then it follows that GT did not happen after BOG. they would exist independently of each other in different timelines. thats like saying that the boo saga happened before trunks' final battle with the androids. it didnt. toeis stating that GT happened after BOG means that these events happened one after the other which would indeed make them a part of the same continuity. you dont have any evidence. any nonbiased party would be able to see that. you're no different than any other deluded fan. when you buy the rights to the series from toei, you can invalidate GT as much as you want. again inconsistencies have nothing to do with whats part of the continuity. toei put GT, BOG and FnF into one continuity. what you dont want to believe or dont like is completely irrelevant. If you don't care, why do you continue to respond? Anyway, I'm done. I've got better things to do than argue about the continuity of freaking Dragon Ball all night.
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Zoom
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Apr 26 2015, 01:55 AM
Post #60
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again inconsistencies have nothing to do with whats part of the continuity. toei put GT, BOG and FnF into one continuity. what you dont want to believe or dont like is completely irrelevant.
Someone show me the source where it states GT and BoG are in the same timeline.
Edited by Zoom, Apr 26 2015, 03:03 AM.
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