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Ok, so SSjGSSj is definitely not 50x SBG
Topic Started: Apr 20 2015, 08:26 PM (1,552 Views)
Xfing
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With SBG I mean "Saiyan Beyond God".

In the new movie, Whis supposedly said that if Goku and Vegeta fought together, they could probably take Beerus. This would have to put them at around 9-9.25 each to Beerus' 10. Base Goku beyond God would initially have to be at around 3,5-4 (he was at 80% against Beerus and Toriyama stated that his full power would be 6, which makes him 4,8 at 80%) . So after his training it's reasonable to assume he got up to 4,5. Which gives us a 2x multiplier for SSjGSSj. You could of course also assume he and Vegeta have come higher, to say 6, and SSjGSSj is only 1,5x - your decision. Anyway, it clearly isn't 50x, no matter how you look at it.

This could be either because it's "God ki" as opposed to "mortal ki" that we're dealing with, and the Super Saiyan form may simply not be very well suited to multiplying god ki. Or it could just be that the base power is extremely high in a strictly numerical manner - god or not - and the SSj multiplier has been decreasing over time all along. Your decision again.

Still, Toriyama has seemingly finally rectified the 50x debacle beyond any reasonable doubt (as back in the Buu saga people used to dismiss the Kiri readings as "perhaps exponential" and whatever).

Will this affect your general stance on the SSj multiplier's possible decrease over time? Or is it a strictly then-and-now question to you?
Edited by Xfing, Apr 20 2015, 08:50 PM.
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Dagon
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Goku didn't stop at 80%, that was only halfway through the fight. After that he fights at full effort, which Beerus responds with 70% Power(Super Saiyan after absorbing God power). Goku at full power in BoG is 60% Beerus. Goku and Vegeta are probably 60-80% Beerus in RoF with Gold Freeza being 85% Beerus and SSJGSSJ 90% Beerus. Base Goku after absorbing God power against Beerus does better than even Raging Vegeta to a (probably) 50% Beerus, so SSJ in that case probably gave a 20% increase.

This gives SSJGSSJ at best a 2.25x increase and at worst a 50% increase, worse than Kaio-Ken. Maybe there comes a point where the sheer power of the form is the concern, not the multiplication. At that level .01% of Goku or Beerus would be Buuhan(probably).
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+ miguelnuva
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Whis says Goku and Vegeta together in SSGSS don't stand any chance against Beerus together. Beerus at 100% is suppose to be an entirly different entity then Beerus at 70%

The new SSJG to SSJGSSJ increase is simply smaller than base to SSJ. I have

Whis-15
Beerus- 10
Golden Frieza- 7.8
SSJGSSJ Goku and Vegeta- 7.5
Saiyan beyond God Goku and Vegeta- 6
SSJG Goku- 6
Posted Image Posted Image

Gogeta power placement
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Xfing
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Ok, that would make the SSj multiplier smaller still. But yeah, I wonder what you think - is it because of the god ki or because of the sheer size of the ki? The latter supports decreasing multipliers, that's why I'm curious.
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