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Gohan getting the SSJG power-up
Topic Started: Apr 20 2015, 06:16 PM (6,118 Views)
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魔王子

FutureProtagonist
Apr 21 2015, 06:30 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Apr 21 2015, 06:24 PM
FutureProtagonist
Apr 21 2015, 06:15 PM
Yeah. Gohan letting Gotenks fight instead was the exact same thing as Goku leaving.

The only reason Super Boo even exists is because of Gohan, right?
Gohan never saw Gotenks fight, but killed himself and left him behind anyway, right?
Gohan outright stated that he had no idea how strong Boo was, right?

No. Gotenks had already demonstrated that he was stronger than Boo and Gohan, who was way stronger than Boo was literally ten feet behind him in case something were to go wrong. It's a far cry from what Goku did.

All you people are playing hindsight man, when Gohan could never have anticipated what actually occurred.
Goku's intentions were pure, that's difference between his and Gohan's mishap. Gohan indirectly let Boo absorb Gotenks because he was confident he could handle what came next. Boo was clearly conniving, and if he didn't see that, that makes him ignorant. They both f***ed up though, and that's the point of this conversation. Gohan isn't without his faults. What's more, his neglect for training would lead to him being overtaken. Gohan most certainly isn't the man for the job, nor does he WANT this job, which is something most people tend to forget.
No they weren't. Like Nagito said, there's nothing about defeating Boo that's going to make Gotenks any better than he would have been if he hadn't defeated Boo. It's just another variable; what if Boo's ki really is like a lie and Gotenks won't be enough? If Goku had actually gone all-out, he might have learned that.

His actions during the fight against Majin Vegeta were selfish and nothing more, as was his decision to fight Pure Boo without fusing.

Yes, in hindsight, Gohan's choice was a bad decision, but that's in hindsight. Besides, Gohan managed to weather that particular wrinkle anyway and was going to win. His real mistake was not anticipating Boo absorbing him, and missing the thrown earring.
Seriously, does Boo just want to fight Gotenks to prolong his death? No. He's clearly up to something that he thinks will grant him victory. Gohan should have anticipated that and just finished the job then and there. That being said, Emmeth said to get back on topic, so this'll be my last post regarding this subject.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Apr 21 2015, 06:34 PM.
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FutureProtagonist
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Boo never showed any kind of cunning before; in fact, he's exceedingly stupid. I would assume that he was just being childish.

And besides, in the end, that gambit failed. Gohan was going to beat him. His real screwup was not anticipating it the second time.
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魔王子

FutureProtagonist
Apr 21 2015, 06:38 PM
Boo never showed any kind of cunning before; in fact, he's exceedingly stupid. I would assume that he was just being childish.

And besides, in the end, that gambit failed. Gohan was going to beat him. His real screwup was not anticipating it the second time.
Which is exactly why it should have been obvious now that he was conniving. Gohan's mistake was taking a chance that Boo wasn't up to something when he clearly was. Piccolo even makes mention of Boo being up to something. Sorry, I just had to address this. I'm done now.... I think.
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FutureProtagonist
Apr 21 2015, 06:38 PM
Boo never showed any kind of cunning before; in fact, he's exceedingly stupid. I would assume that he was just being childish.

And besides, in the end, that gambit failed. Gohan was going to beat him. His real screwup was not anticipating it the second time.
"And besides, in the end, that gambit failed. Gohan was going to beat him."
Uh, no. Dense had to heal him, Tien had to save Dende, and Buu was literally about to destroy the planet and kill them all when Goku came back and saved them. If Old Kai couldn't have brought Goku back then Buu would have won.
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FutureProtagonist
Apr 21 2015, 06:30 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Apr 21 2015, 06:24 PM
FutureProtagonist
Apr 21 2015, 06:15 PM
Yeah. Gohan letting Gotenks fight instead was the exact same thing as Goku leaving.

The only reason Super Boo even exists is because of Gohan, right?
Gohan never saw Gotenks fight, but killed himself and left him behind anyway, right?
Gohan outright stated that he had no idea how strong Boo was, right?

No. Gotenks had already demonstrated that he was stronger than Boo and Gohan, who was way stronger than Boo was literally ten feet behind him in case something were to go wrong. It's a far cry from what Goku did.

All you people are playing hindsight man, when Gohan could never have anticipated what actually occurred.
Goku's intentions were pure, that's difference between his and Gohan's mishap. Gohan indirectly let Boo absorb Gotenks because he was confident he could handle what came next. Boo was clearly conniving, and if he didn't see that, that makes him ignorant. They both f***ed up though, and that's the point of this conversation. Gohan isn't without his faults. What's more, his neglect for training would lead to him being overtaken. Gohan most certainly isn't the man for the job, nor does he WANT this job, which is something most people tend to forget.
No they weren't. Like Nagito said, there's nothing about defeating Boo that's going to make Gotenks any better than he would have been if he hadn't defeated Boo. It's just another variable; what if Boo's ki really is like a lie and Gotenks won't be enough? If Goku had actually gone all-out, he might have learned that.

His actions during the fight against Majin Vegeta were selfish and nothing more, as was his decision to fight Pure Boo without fusing.

Yes, in hindsight, Gohan's choice was a bad decision, but that's in hindsight. Besides, Gohan managed to weather that particular wrinkle anyway and was going to win. His real mistake was not anticipating Boo absorbing him, and missing the thrown earring.
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I quite enjoy being a douche, thanks. :rofl:

It is debatable.
I don't think it is. Both the results of the fight and Goku's comments suggest that Gotenks had the upper hand. There's nothing to suggest that that was all a fluke. Besides, if Gotenks started losing, Gohan was right there; Gotenks wasn't weaker, but even if he was, it wasn't by much. Gohan could have easily been in complete control if it played out the way he expected.
Buu only admits inferiority to Gohan, and he even admits that he was plotting to absorb Gotenks after sensing Gohan's power growing because he cannot allow a power greater than his own to exist.

:errm:
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DEY DID DIS 2 ME
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MY FACE!

oh, tish-tosh, pish-posh...
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Apr 21 2015, 10:52 PM
oh, tish-tosh, pish-posh...
Sir, I think you're fixated in anal torture a bit much. ^_^

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Kblo247
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Nagito Komaeda
Apr 21 2015, 04:50 PM
Gohan's fight with Boo wasn't long at all. He was sizing Boo up. Goku, on the other hand, intentionally holds back against Boo. He doesn't even try and kill him, which is completely inexcusable. They both entrusted Gotenks with the task of beating Boo, but Gohan was more justified because he was there to sort things out if anything went wrong. Goku, knowing that he'd be leaving Gotenks as the sole protector of the Earth, didn't go all-out against Boo, that's what it boils down to. Gohan had seen how strong Boo was, and had judged that he'd be able to take him out if anything went wrong. Overconfident? Sure. However, it isn't downright idiotic like Goku's choice.
If Goku goes all out as ssj3 who teaches the kids how to protect the planet in a world where he, Vegeta, and Gohan are all presumed dead? They hadn't been taught the dance yet, so there was never a Gotenks, he bought time to give them the tools to create a being superior to what the boys can do. And he entrusted their care to piccolo. By all means Goku said it himself, a dead guy can't keep coming in and save the day, and as it stood, everyone was dead and the planet would be open for attack with piccolo as the strongest being on it , had Goku went all out and erased all his time. And once again, his Kamehameha would have killed anyone else, just like Vegetas piercing beam would have; Gohan however never tried to do anything but make a mockery of him with h2h combat because he was stronger, just like with cell again, and it cost three people what could have been their lives
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

...Are you people...implying that Gohan is less responsible than Goku and Vegeta? I mean I want to get this straightened out first and make sure this is what the argument is all about. Because in the end...this is wrong. Goku and Vegeta are far less responsible and if they're allow SSJG, then so is Gohan. So again, do correct dear Dark Matter on this subject because that's what this whole thing seem to be about.
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Kblo247
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I'm saying two things.

1 - anyone can become a ssj god like in BoG for a short time, but not everyone can retain it. Goku and Vegeta retain the power or at least most of it, but there is that other 33% chance which says Gohan may not be able to. The original god lost the form and the power, thus the evil Saiyans winning. There's no guarantee he would keep that strength, and if he did, there's a 1 in a million chance he actually cares enough to go put in the work to go blue which we can assert takes time and effort


2 - Giving it to him, even if he retains it won't matter in the long run. Gohan doesn't practice great responsibility with his power. After Namek and Guru gave him a huge power boost from Raditz tier to over captain Ginyu, he doesn't train for 2 years until Goku returns to the planet, and that's both timelines as the future him is still looking to become as strong as his dad post Yardrat. After he's got the power at cell games and should have learned from his mistakes like prolonging a fight, thus getting others killed, and explicitly asked by Goku to be the hero since Goku gave his life to save him, he doesn't even train for 7 years. That 7 years catches up with him, as he's the reason he got stabbed since shin was only able to restrain him since he was weaker. He can't beat Dabura and needs a senzu after their fight; yes Goku and Vegeta hold blame for Buu, but half of Buus revival and Dabura surviving was all on Gohan. He's taken off the world and given this gran power up that makes him the strongest non fused character, and he goes off to fight Buu, just like he fought cell, that s*** eating grin ever present as he embarrassed him and got out smarted. He let Gotenks get in a fight despite piccolo saying it was fishy, he got saved by Dende, Tien, and Goku after smugly bragging Buutenks was nothing, and to top it off he got absorbed after seeing it twice before. He needed his dad and cranky uncle veggie to comeback from the dead, purposely get eaten, and everything to save him. Then you flash forward and post Buu, he hasn't trained, has no job so the family man stuff ain't an excuse, and he gets easily dispatched and stands by while Goku and Vegeta do the work. Even after Beerus, he still doesn't train to be ready for battle, has lost another chunk of his power from not even maintaining a fitness level that keeps him where he was, and he gets one shotted and needs 2 beans.


Gohan just isn't fit for the power because he don't give a f***. He's essentially a guy who if they gave the power to him, would never train to maintain it. He would never seek to better it. He would literally just have to bide his time and hope someone else gives him another free power up when the next big bad comes.

Lastly, to say he isn't as foolish as the full bloods is sad and contrived. He's toyed with two opponents and almost got the planet destroyed and the bricks beat off him, but Gokus teleported in both times with cell and Buu at the last minute while he sits their in fetal position when cell and Buu are going to blow up the planet. To say he doesn't treat things as a game is revisionist as he participates in the games on the ship wi the lives of piccolo and Krillin on the line despite them having saved him oh so many times (Rock, paper, scissors shoot). To say well he doesn't train because he's a family man and productive member of society ignores he's living with satan off his dime and then living next to his parents in land his grandpa owns when z ends in the manga, and it's never mentioned he has a job or has accomplished or invented anything at all from Buu to Z, let alone brought in more money than Goku who won a budokai. To say he's a great protector is hogwash as he refuses to maintain his power to protect said family, like Vegeta maintains his and outright made a damn fool of himself to protect Bulma in Battle of Gods. And finally, for all the people who blame Goku for sending Gohan into cell and letting a kid bear that weight, Gohan is no better as Gotenks isn't stronger than buu, which Goten pointed out, yet he let him go into battle with the world on the line after being given a power and promising to end things.

My point in summary
- Gohan is lazy
- Gohan is just as irresponsible
- Gohan has no respect for what he's given so it a waste of power
Edited by Kblo247, Apr 21 2015, 11:57 PM.
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魔王子

I thought Emmeth told us to get back on topic? Seriously, just create another thread for this discussion.
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My post was in response to the one above mine and it clearly answered the OP in every way
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sekzee
Apr 21 2015, 07:36 PM
FutureProtagonist
Apr 21 2015, 06:30 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Apr 21 2015, 06:24 PM
FutureProtagonist
Apr 21 2015, 06:15 PM
Yeah. Gohan letting Gotenks fight instead was the exact same thing as Goku leaving.

The only reason Super Boo even exists is because of Gohan, right?
Gohan never saw Gotenks fight, but killed himself and left him behind anyway, right?
Gohan outright stated that he had no idea how strong Boo was, right?

No. Gotenks had already demonstrated that he was stronger than Boo and Gohan, who was way stronger than Boo was literally ten feet behind him in case something were to go wrong. It's a far cry from what Goku did.

All you people are playing hindsight man, when Gohan could never have anticipated what actually occurred.
Goku's intentions were pure, that's difference between his and Gohan's mishap. Gohan indirectly let Boo absorb Gotenks because he was confident he could handle what came next. Boo was clearly conniving, and if he didn't see that, that makes him ignorant. They both f***ed up though, and that's the point of this conversation. Gohan isn't without his faults. What's more, his neglect for training would lead to him being overtaken. Gohan most certainly isn't the man for the job, nor does he WANT this job, which is something most people tend to forget.
No they weren't. Like Nagito said, there's nothing about defeating Boo that's going to make Gotenks any better than he would have been if he hadn't defeated Boo. It's just another variable; what if Boo's ki really is like a lie and Gotenks won't be enough? If Goku had actually gone all-out, he might have learned that.

His actions during the fight against Majin Vegeta were selfish and nothing more, as was his decision to fight Pure Boo without fusing.

Yes, in hindsight, Gohan's choice was a bad decision, but that's in hindsight. Besides, Gohan managed to weather that particular wrinkle anyway and was going to win. His real mistake was not anticipating Boo absorbing him, and missing the thrown earring.
Quote:
 
I quite enjoy being a douche, thanks. :rofl:

It is debatable.
I don't think it is. Both the results of the fight and Goku's comments suggest that Gotenks had the upper hand. There's nothing to suggest that that was all a fluke. Besides, if Gotenks started losing, Gohan was right there; Gotenks wasn't weaker, but even if he was, it wasn't by much. Gohan could have easily been in complete control if it played out the way he expected.
Buu only admits inferiority to Gohan, and he even admits that he was plotting to absorb Gotenks after sensing Gohan's power growing because he cannot allow a power greater than his own to exist.

:errm:
Considering he survived Gotenks and Gotenks's crippling limitations, it's not unreasonable that he doesn't consider Gotenks a big threat, but in terms of sheer power, Gotenks is unquestionably stronger.

Chapter: 495 (DBZ 301), P13.3-
Context: as Gotenks beats up on Boo
Goku: “Amazin’, amazin’! At this rate, Gohan ain’t gonna get a turn!”
Kaioshin: “Oh!”

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P4.4
Context: Boo says Goten and Trunks are scared to fight him
Trunks: “Looks like you don’t understand a thing! If we hadn’t returned to normal back then, we definitely would have won that fight!”

Gotenks is irritated by Boo's attack, sends the exact same attack back at him, which does more than just annoy him.
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Gotenks proceed to take complete control of the battle, despite not having instant regeneration and infinite stamina, almost delivering the attack that would have killed him:
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魔王子

Kblo247
Apr 22 2015, 12:10 AM
My post was in response to the one above mine and it clearly answered the OP in every way
I was addressing both of you.
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I love Gohan and if he got the Super Duper Saiyan God boost it would be pretty banging.
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