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| Gohan > Goku BoG | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 3 2015, 11:40 AM (2,633 Views) | |
| FutureProtagonist | Apr 3 2015, 09:58 PM Post #16 |
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
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Gohan isn't Ultimate in this movie, that's why he's not Ultimate in Revival of F. When he wonders whether he can still turn Super Saiyan (in F), he's referencing the time he attacked Beerus; he tried and failed to turn Super Saiyan. It explains what Clearin brought up and it explains why Vegeta is shocked when Beerus defeats Gotenks. Hell, it even explains why Gotenks didn't use SSJ3. SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Vegeta > Base Gohan. Edited by FutureProtagonist, Apr 3 2015, 10:00 PM.
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| Kblo247 | Apr 3 2015, 10:17 PM Post #17 |
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Gohan goes ultimate just like in the games before he plots a cowardly sneak attack which gets him dropped. People seem to have this damn idea that he will never power down from ultimate or can't go ssj, when the manga never says that. It outright says throw a kiai on top of going super to activate ultimate, and pages later Goku asked if he and Gohan should just both go super before putting on the potara. Ultimate is something he can ascend to just like MSSJ or ssj2. Gotenks is spanked out of ssj, he didn't go ssj3 because as the Tarble special mentioned he's gotten soft just like Gohan. Vegeta is obviously the best one there. You don't call Vegeta to be a beacon of peace, Kai called him because he's the strongest not the level headed one in their group. We start the movie with Goku and Vegeta both still training, still improving, stills sharpening their skills. Vegeta shows shock that Kakarot is beaten so easily which implies Goku is the King still, and that goes hand in hand with Roshi saying wow Vegeta surpassed Goku or the look on Gohan and the boys face just like the humans, Buu, and piccolo when Goku touches down and they expect him to handle Beerus (not knowing he's lost already). Vegeta being second is pretty much a given here. Vegeta after seeing Buu no Gohan treated like scrubs outright in the extended full cut tells Beerus to follow him for a real fight. And then Vegeta holds his own better than anyone there in the whole damn movie before he gets overwhelmed. Top it off with Beerus commenting before his rage out that his skills were great, just his power wasn't god level, and it fits. We can outright point to Goku just being a prick in the initial encounter as why he got manhandled. Goku was so full of himself and pride it was crazy. He started off by telling the gods it's an honor for them to meet him. He goes on to cockily say hey I know I'm too much for you at level 3, let me dial it back and take it easy on you. Whis > Beerus > God Goku > My Bulma Vegeta > Goku > Vegeta > Gohan > Gotenks > Buu > Piccolo > 18 > Krillin > Tien > the rest at the party They even sneakily imply Krillins still the top human throughout as well with saying stuff like Krillin get the others away to safety or Roshi asking if he can follow Beerus vs Goku still when the fight ramps up. That chain doesn't truly change in RoF it seems either Edited by Kblo247, Apr 3 2015, 10:23 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Apr 3 2015, 11:42 PM Post #18 |
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Kaio called on him for the exact opposite of what you're claiming. (About to rewatch the movie in English, and hopefully I'll have the Japanese lines as well.) Edited by Pyrus, Apr 3 2015, 11:53 PM.
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Apr 4 2015, 12:04 AM Post #19 |
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魔王子
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Yeah, I suppose that'll do it, although, he WAS supposed to be a Super Saiyajin....Maybe we simply shouldn't take this seriously because of that...? |
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| + Pyrus | Apr 4 2015, 12:09 AM Post #20 |
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The producers probably didn't care about the difference between Super Saiyan and "Ultimate" Gohan, so they kept with the original intention of Super Saiyan. |
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| Kblo247 | Apr 4 2015, 12:12 AM Post #21 |
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I mean ... Who in their right mind calls veggie to be polite and a good host who doesn't upset anyone? If they wanted someone to be civil and a good ambassador, wouldn't you call mild mannered Gohan? Vegeta isn't called for his personality IMO |
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| + Pyrus | Apr 4 2015, 12:20 AM Post #22 |
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That's the thing. Kaio didn't have to worry about Gohan lashing out. Vegeta was the problem child, so to speak, which is why Kaio went to him – to warn him not to do anything rash. |
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| + Clearin | Apr 4 2015, 12:23 AM Post #23 |
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Maybe they should have left Vegeta at home when they went to fight Freeza so he wouldn't do anything rash
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| DBZAOTA482 | Apr 4 2015, 12:32 AM Post #24 |
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Farmer with Shotgun > Whis |
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| + Pyrus | Apr 4 2015, 01:33 AM Post #25 |
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Turns out I had the normal version, not the extended one, but I pulled some stuff. Context: Kaio is explaining why he needs Vegeta's help Kaio: "Goku couldn't leave well enough alone, and was beaten easily." Vegeta: "He was what?! Kakarrot?!" Kaio: "Super Saiyan 3 Goku was left barely breathing after just two blows." Vegeta: "Just two blows, you say?" Context: after Beerus beats Vegeta Beerus: "His fighting senses, at least, are pretty good." Note: Eh, "fighting senses", huh. Context: as Super Saiyan Gotenks charges Beerus Vegeta: "Don't! You're no match for him!" Context: after Beerus disposes of Gotenks Vegeta: "I imagined that you'd be beyond the pale, but I never thought our levels would be this far removed." Note: See, this line alone doesn't make much sense unless Vegeta himself is close to Goku, or stronger. Logically Vegeta would be no match for Goku at their strongest, so after hearing of how easily Goku was beaten, Vegeta should know that Beerus is at least in another league from him, yet he still has the gall to utter this line. What was he expecting? He makes it seem like everybody was scrunched together power-wise. Context: as Vegeta rages and fights Beerus Roshi: "This is incredible! I think Vegeta has finally surpassed Goku, hasn't he?" Note: Roshi's not sure in the Japanese version? Similar to Piccolo and Majin Vegeta compared to Viz. Context: after Vegeta's Garlicinator fails to kill Beerus Beerus: "Sure enough, that doesn't seem to be Super Saiyan God, either." |
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| FutureProtagonist | Apr 4 2015, 01:40 AM Post #26 |
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Perhaps he expected that either Gotenks or Gohan would put up a decent fight. |
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| + Pyrus | Apr 4 2015, 01:47 AM Post #27 |
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Wouldn't you say he's speaking in a comparative manner between himself and Beerus? |
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| FutureProtagonist | Apr 4 2015, 01:54 AM Post #28 |
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
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"Our levels" could be referring to the power of the Z-gang as a whole. Hence, he was expecting someone in the gang to be close to him. That or he was simply expecting a twenty times gap between himself and Beerus, rather than a two hundred times gap. Consider this too; somehow, after fighting Beerus, Goku realized that Vegetto would lose to him, perhaps Vegeta realized this as well. Edited by FutureProtagonist, Apr 4 2015, 01:57 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Apr 4 2015, 02:01 AM Post #29 |
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It's weird since he knows about Goku's loss. The implication of it is awkward. |
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| Kblo247 | Apr 4 2015, 02:58 AM Post #30 |
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Buu: Now Buu turn you into candy and eat you. * Gets knocked in the water, comes out steaming mad You do that to Buu! (Still has steam pouring out him) Tien: His Strength ... Its incredible Gohan: Ill hold him off. Get the others to safety Krillin: Um..., okay Gohan: powers up to full, and adds a Hiya! * Beerus breaks the full Nelson, butts their heads together and kicks him Vegeta: Damn! No point in holding back now. * goes super and flies up to Beerus and points behind him Vegeta: This way if you want a fight * dodges and blocks a series of strikes before being overwhelmed and emphasis is put on Whis at the sushi bar with sparks in the sky which is still Vegeta lasting longer than anyone Krillin: Vegeta, didn't even last a minute up there! Beerus: Prince Vegeta is highly skilled, but lacks the power to fight me. * Gotenks challenges Beerus Vegeta: Gotenks! You have no chance of defeating Lord Beerus * Gotenks proceeds to get spanked out of ssj and fusion Vegeta: I knew you would be the strongest opponent I ever faced, but I still did not think it would be over this quickly. Damn! Not the ending I wanted. Humph. I'll take pride in the fact that it took Beerus the destroyer to kill me. Beerus: indeed. That's a fine way to rationalize your death Roshi: This is Incredible! Vegetas anger over Bulma getting hit's made him even stronger than Goku! That's all captioned scenes from the uncut edition. And there's also Beerus commenting on Vegetas skill being superior but lacking the power needed, and Goku agreeing that angry Vegeta had surpassed him Edited by Kblo247, Apr 4 2015, 03:20 AM.
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