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Buugeta (SSJ2 Gogeta absorbed) vs Mystic Gohan
Topic Started: Mar 17 2015, 11:23 PM (2,078 Views)
+ Six Trails Mar 19 2015, 07:58 PM Post #16
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 Buuhan says otherwise.
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superperfectnerd Mar 19 2015, 07:59 PM Post #17
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 Boohan is an overconfident fool. Just like every other villain in the series.
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+ Pyrus Mar 19 2015, 08:05 PM Post #18
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 Then prove him wrong.
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+ Six Trails Mar 19 2015, 08:05 PM Post #19
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 He was never proven wrong. Ockham's razor. Also, Buu admitting a Goku/Gohan fusion could beat him destroys any "cocky" argument.
Edited by Six Trails, Mar 19 2015, 08:22 PM.
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EMIYA Mar 19 2015, 08:23 PM Post #20
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 To start off with the topic, if I use the SEG amps, it may not be a massive gap, but its a gap that the fusion should still win. The way I see it, it would be kind of like this.

Super Boo/Gotenks: 100 (give a slight advantage to Gotenks if you want)

Gohan: 120

Pimp Boo: 200

SSJ3 Gogeta: +200 (Though Gotenks Boo was confident he could take on the fusion, he was also wary and didn't want to risk it. It's the kind of point where it at least points to SSj3 Gogeta having the overall edge against Gotenks Boo.

SSJ2 Gogeta: 50

Supa Gogitta Beatboxer Boo #2: 150

As you can see, its not a large gap and that number might fluctuate a bit but I'd give to Boo with similar difficulty between Vegeta vs Semi-Cell. Not enough to outright tank a punch across the face, but enough to soundly kick a***.
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Also prove Boo wrong? How about prove Goku right? I didn't see Goku backing up his s*** when he was going on about fusion taking on Gotenks Boo. He's never even done fusion in his life. See I can throw that whole "arrogant Boo" argument right back.
Edited by EMIYA, Mar 19 2015, 08:25 PM.
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superperfectnerd Mar 19 2015, 09:00 PM Post #21
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 That's like saying God exists because I can't prove he doesn't. The burden of proof lies on you, not me. I'm choosing to take Boo's words with a pinch of salt and actually judge Gotenks' feats. Following what happens earlier in the story with Gotenks' massive increase from the boys' small gains the power scale should be;

Base Goten/Trunks pre ROSAT < Base Goten/Trunks post ROSAT < Base Goku/Vegeta <<<<<<< Base Gotenks pre ROSAT <<<<<<<< Base Gotenks post ROSAT <<<<<<< Base Gogeta <<<<<<<< Base Vegetto

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+ Six Trails Mar 19 2015, 09:02 PM Post #22
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 So Toriyama writes in a line of Buu saying Buuhan > Gogeta, because he wants us to believe the opposite....?
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superperfectnerd Mar 19 2015, 09:10 PM Post #23
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 If you want to say that Gogeta is not loads stronger than Gotenks because of the small gap between the boys and their fathers, then you have to go back and say base Gotenks post ROSAT was not stronger than ssj Gotenks pre ROSAT. You can't have it both ways. There's no reason that fusion would not affect the adults the same way it affects the kids and even if for some reason it didn't affect them the same, there's no way for Boo to know that it wouldn't considering the only fusion he's witnessed is Gotenks. He could be posturing, speculating, intimidating, bluffing or just being an idiot. That's the only logical explanation whether it was Toriyama's intention or not.
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+ Six Trails Mar 19 2015, 09:14 PM Post #24
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 It's purely plot based. Goku was able to accurately predict Gotenks strength before, there's no reason for Buu not to be to predict Gogeta's strength.

You can't ignore intentions. Toriyama doesn't write in lines for his readers to ignore and believe whatever the hell they want. It's his story. What he says goes.
Edited by Six Trails, Mar 19 2015, 09:17 PM.
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superperfectnerd Mar 19 2015, 09:20 PM Post #25
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 Goku's prediction wasn't accurate, he simply said the boys should be stronger than Boo and they were. - he didn't predict exactly how close or far from Boo's power they would be. 'Plot based' isn't enough for me. I can ignore intentions if it's not absolutely clear. Boo's estimation of Gogeta's strength isn't infallible, just like Vegeta assuming he was stronger than Goku after his second trip into the ROSAT and stating it in the story. It was later dis-proven.
Edited by superperfectnerd, Mar 19 2015, 09:20 PM.
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+ Six Trails Mar 19 2015, 09:27 PM Post #26
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 Goku's prediction wasn't accurate because... you said so?

He measures their full power, but he's really just talking out of his a*** and was lucky Gotenks ended up stronger than Buu?

Vegeta being stronger than Goku is later disproven, but Buu is never disproven, so what's your point?

No, you can't ignore intentions. What's stated doesn't boil down to what you accept. You either accept the statement or accept that Toriyama's a horrible story teller who writes the opposite of what he wants his reader to believe.
Edited by Six Trails, Mar 19 2015, 09:29 PM.
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+ Pyrus Mar 19 2015, 09:38 PM Post #27
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 On the contrary, the burden lies on you to disprove a character, not for the character to prove himself right.

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2091668-massive-debunking-of-gokuism/

metal4ever
 
Occam's razor dictates it takes more faith to assume a main character like Goku would lie or be wrong about pretty much anything as significant as this. When authors write a story they do not usually intend for the audience to be skeptical of statements that push the plot along. Imagine if people claimed Gandalf was lying at the beginning about how to destroy Sauron because he hadn't proved it? Or that people doubted the Elder Wand was all-powerful just because we never saw it in action? Or that North Kaio really isn't stronger than Enma Daio? Or that Vegeta couldn't destroy Namek because he never did it?

This is same scenario. Goku is explaining how to save the world and we're supposed to take it at face value. If you are going to be skeptical of everything then you might as well stop reading fantasy fiction. Suspension of disbelief is what prevents us from questioning everything that isn't proven in a fantasy setting. It's what allows you to trust a narrator and characters serving as narrators: it's a fictional story, not real life.

The author could shift the story to contradict these claims for a surprise twist, but Toriyama never does so.

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A character is assumed to be telling the truth unless otherwise hinted or retracted. So when Goku makes the claim Gotenks is going to be stronger than Fat Boo, it's author intent to go along with it, even if just to "surprise" us later.

Take her down easy, son. I don't want to have to dig in. I can't. Not again!
Edited by Pyrus, Mar 19 2015, 09:40 PM.
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superperfectnerd Mar 19 2015, 09:45 PM Post #28
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 Goku was right because fusion was so great that 2 fighters as strong as Goten and Trunks would easily outclass Boo. He was right but even he was surprised at how strong they were. He didn't calculate how they fit in between 2 warriors on a complicated scale like Boohan is supposedly doing here.

You don't know for sure that Toriyama's intention was for Vegetto to be way ahead of Gogeta. Potara is stated to be stronger the only implication of how much stronger comes from Boo's expectations. Perhaps Toriyama intended for Boohan to be dis-proven as soon as Vegetto formed as Boohan because he still expected that fusion to also be weaker than him. He was wrong, perhaps Toriyama didn't intend for Potara's superiority to be quite so heavily implied. He just meant to imply Boo was wrong about fusion full stop and he would have been wrong about Gogeta too. We don't know, we can only speculate and I'd rather take into account the logic of Gotenks' feats.
Edited by superperfectnerd, Mar 19 2015, 09:48 PM.
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+ Pyrus Mar 19 2015, 09:47 PM Post #29
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 That's not Christian!! It doesn't solve a darn thing! It just keeps you conveniently floating while everyone else is on a dingy!
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superperfectnerd Mar 19 2015, 09:49 PM Post #30
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Pyrus
Mar 19 2015, 09:47 PM
That's not Christian!! It doesn't solve a darn thing! It just keeps you conveniently floating while everyone else is on a dingy!
It's not my fault you can't fly the nimbus.
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