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Piccolo GT vs Super Vegetto
Topic Started: Mar 16 2015, 11:59 PM (1,511 Views)
FutureProtagonist Mar 20 2015, 01:47 AM Post #16
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir

 Piccolo congratulates Gohan greatly improving based on his suppressed power?

Besides, if Gohan had improved at all (since Boo Arc), Piccolo should still be above Ultimate Gohan. The statement implies that Gohan (expected) wouldn't have been able to damage Piccolo very much.
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Southern Gothic Mar 20 2015, 04:26 PM Post #17
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Dilly Dilly

 The statement doesn't imply anything except what you are choosing to read into. There is nothing difinitive in Piccolo's words that would convey the idea that he is talking about some sort of recent accomplishments on the part of Gohan. At best he is saying goodbye to a friend and former student, who he throws a few kind words before dying. And why would he compliment Gohan's power when it was Gohan + Baby, and not Gohan's power alone?

At least, that's what I assume the statement implies. Otherwise, how the hell does anyone explain Piccolo going from being weaker than surpressed Cell to greater than Ultimate Gohan in no time at all? This would have to happen virtually overnight with no one giving any sort of recognition to the accomplishment.

Also, how much time passed between the Baby/Gohan KHH and Piccolo sacrificing himself? Do we have any idea what Piccolo looked like that whole time? The extent of the damage he took is largely unknown, and by the time we see him holding his side and ready to die, he may well have been mostly healed by that point. He may have been nothing but a head! The point is he had time to heal and we have no clue the extent off the damages.

But to put Piccolo above Ultimate Gohan because of one broad and general statement is absolute hogwash in my book. Hogwash I tell you!
Edited by Southern Gothic, Mar 20 2015, 04:47 PM.
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+ Pyrus Mar 20 2015, 05:20 PM Post #18
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 It's tomfoolery! You all know Piccolo is Good Boo level at best!
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sekzee Mar 20 2015, 05:59 PM Post #19
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First post was bait, eh?
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OmegaSaiyan2 Mar 21 2015, 12:09 AM Post #20
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¿?

 I Think At EoGT Piccolo Is Around SBV1 Tier(Too High Maybe) So He Stomps
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FutureProtagonist Mar 21 2015, 01:08 AM Post #21
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
Quote:
 
The statement doesn't imply anything except what you are choosing to read into. There is nothing difinitive in Piccolo's words that would convey the idea that he is talking about some sort of recent accomplishments on the part of Gohan. At best he is saying goodbye to a friend and former student, who he throws a few kind words before dying. And why would he compliment Gohan's power when it was Gohan + Baby, and not Gohan's power alone?
He mentions that Gohan's KHH actually hurt him pretty badly. Why would he include that if it was unexpected?

Seriously, if he's at the same power as the Boo Arc, he's likely to become vaporized just by being in the same area as anyone even 1/10th as strong as Ultimate Gohan.
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At least, that's what I assume the statement implies. Otherwise, how the hell does anyone explain Piccolo going from being weaker than surpressed Cell to greater than Ultimate Gohan in no time at all? This would have to happen virtually overnight with no one giving any sort of recognition to the accomplishment.
Goten and Trunks both did it. Trunks was crap tier at the end of DBZ, but, by the time he's on the hospital planet, he's above Rild. None of this craziness is acknowledged in the slightest. Everyone gets arbitrary gains in GT. Pan's random gains were the only ones that were paid any kind of lip service to.

Furthermore, Piccolo was acknowledged by Baby. I suppose it could have been all his reputation, but he should still be able to feel Piccolo's ki. If it was total weaksauce, he wouldn't have bothered trying out his new power on it:

Episode 26
Time: around 19m40s
Context: After Piccolo warns Gohan with his Makankosappo
Gohan: "So you're the mightiest Namekian, Piccolo, huh? You might be a suitable opponent to test my current power out on."
Piccolo: "What!?"

This also hurts your theory about Baby not being able to access Gohan's full power at the time. Why would he want to test out his new power if he's not able to use the entirety of it? He at least has to be above SSJ Goten at the time.

I'd also like to put out one more observation. Granted, I'm kind of flying blind here, but the context here implies that Piccolo is showing up Gohan with his Makankosappo. If he's still Boo Arc tier, the Makankosappo would be more-or-less a love tap.
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I was under the impression that Gohan was holding back. He knew that if he went full power against Goten, his brother would be destroyed. The only time Gohan should have been at full power was when Baby made the body swap. Adding to this, Baby has to wait for a Saiyan to considerably raise his power to gain control of it.
He should still be able to defend himself. Was it ever suggested that holding back doesn't just mean staying in base? Baby needs them to use Super Saiyan if he wants their full power. Gohan shouldn't have any trouble using his full base power, at least for defense and movement.

The fight at least should have implied that SSJ Goten-Baby > Base Gohan.
Edited by FutureProtagonist, Mar 21 2015, 01:14 AM.
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+ Pyrus Mar 21 2015, 01:45 AM Post #22
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 Goten was forced to suicide to entice Gohan, child!
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FutureProtagonist Mar 21 2015, 01:47 AM Post #23
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
Pyrus
Mar 21 2015, 01:45 AM
Goten was forced to suicide to entice Gohan, child!
To turn Super Saiyan...

Why on earth would he be getting his s*** kicked in by a weaker opponent when there's no reason he can't use his full base power? He wasn't willing to fight Cell, but that didn't stop him from easily dodging all of his attacks.
Edited by FutureProtagonist, Mar 21 2015, 01:47 AM.
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+ Pyrus Mar 21 2015, 02:06 AM Post #24
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 Oops, guess what dropped by? SS3 Goku's fight with Big Busta Boo.
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FutureProtagonist Mar 21 2015, 02:17 AM Post #25
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Pyrus
Mar 21 2015, 02:06 AM
Oops, guess what dropped by? SS3 Goku's fight with Big Busta Boo.
I'll concede that he doesn't have to be stronger.

If you're using that as an example, you are saying that he at least has to be on par, yes?
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+ Pyrus Mar 21 2015, 02:52 AM Post #26
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 They were both exhausted after their scuffle, though only one of them saw it fit to try a kamikaze in order to get the other to try harder.

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FutureProtagonist Mar 21 2015, 03:09 AM Post #27
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Pyrus
Mar 21 2015, 02:52 AM
They were both exhausted after their scuffle, though only one of them saw it fit to try a kamikaze in order to get the other to try harder.

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He still succeeded in inflicting plenty of damage on him. Something that Cell was completely unable to do against Gohan.

Baby's decision to use the Kamikaze attack doesn't reflect that poorly on his strength. For one, Goten didn't die, for two, Baby couldn't care less about Goten. Why risk carrying out a long battle (that he might have lost) just to preserve a power that isn't very useful to him? The Kamikaze move was his the only way to ensure that he got Gohan to transform. It does not mean that he's vastly weaker.
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+ Pyrus Mar 21 2015, 03:25 AM Post #28
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 They were about even as far as I observed. The kamikaze move was to get the edge.
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FutureProtagonist Mar 21 2015, 03:38 AM Post #29
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Quwrof Wrlccywrlir

 I would agree with that (did you flip-flop on me?). Considering that both Goten and Gohan took the brunt of that ki cloud-thing and both emerged in about the same state. I wouldn't have a problem with Gohan having the advantage, but not more than 15% I would think. Goten didn't land nearly as many hits as I thought he had.

In any, case, Piccolo? I would interpret his use of the Makankosappo against Gohan as an indication that he isn't afraid to fight him, but on the other hand, it didn't seem he was expecting Gohan to fight back. Then you have Baby describing him as a good test subject for his new power. Considering he just used a ki attack, it's not likely that he was suppressed. Baby should be judging him by what he's feeling at the time. On the other hand, he did seem to be focusing on his title more than anything else, commenting that he was a weakling at the end.

Then there's my last argument that Piccolo mentioning Gohan's improvement and damage he suffered from the Kamehameha in the same breath should indicate some kind of correlation. Doesn't necessarily have to. It's kind of like how Cell described the core in his head. Or like how news articles say "teen kills classmates after playing Grand Theft Auto", not actually saying that there's any link between the two, but hoping the audience will make the connection themselves. I'd say there's likely a link between the two statements, but there doesn't precisely have to be.

Still, Ultimate Gohan tier seems pretty likely. GT seems to like giving characters pretty much whatever power they need to relevant. Case in point: f***ing Yakon.
Edited by FutureProtagonist, Mar 21 2015, 03:50 AM.
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