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LOTR Feats and Inconsistencies
Topic Started: Feb 6 2015, 01:27 AM (542 Views)
lazerbem
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Not sure if this is the right forum, but whatever. I hear people tossing around this idea that a continent fell on Sauron. Having not read any of the books, can someone clarify this?
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

What does that even mean? A continent falling on someone would be no different than any other slab of land...I hope people don't use that as a serious durability feat as it's not like all the weight would be focused on him.
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lazerbem
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It would still be impressive by virtue of it being an enormous slab of rock that apparently did not hurt him.

Allegedly
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+ Emmeth
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Wouldn't this fit better in Books and Comics? Unless you're planning on making this into a scaling debate.
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SuperSaiyan1993
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Well if an entire continent actually did fall on Sauron, then his 1st defeat wouldn't make sense; if he's durable enough to survive the impact of a continent, then his arm should be durable enough to withstand a sword cut instead of being chopped off.

Also how exactly would this continent business happen anyway? What, a continent magically floats into the air and drops back down on Sauron?
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

If he can be cut by a sword then surely he shielded himself somehow? He is a wizard.

LOTR lore sounds so ridiculous :rofl:
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The more impressive feat here would belong to the person who lifted the continent. Those babies are attached to even larger tectonic plates underneath. Unless this person was able to detatch the continent from the sea floor, which is also in and of itself impressive.
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lazerbem
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From what I know in LOTR, the Valar did create the Earth, I don't see why they couldn't destroy it. Also, one of the dragons in LOTR crushed a mountain range that was 500 miles wide and had peaks twice as tall as Everest by falling on it. However, Sauron is a Maiar and much weaker.

As for Sauron's finger, the sword was magical, Sauron was cocky, and in LOTR, willpower is a huge deal. Basically, fate intervenes on your part to help you out if you have more will and courage than your opponent. I would like to mention that the sword that cut off his finger was enchanted as f*** and basically created by one of the best smiths and Middle Earth and made specifically for use against creatures like Sauron.

For an example as to what happens when regular weapons touch Sauron, the Witchking of Angmar, trash compared to Sauron, destroys all weapons that touched his body, even one specifically enchanted to kill wraiths(though that one forced him to his knees and opened him up to a killing blow)

Another thing that makes scaling in LOTR such a mess is that Tolkien flat out said that he doesn't like the idea of A>B in terms of magic, that each magic is its own branch and you can't just say "this guy's magic was better".

EDIT: Another thing that's a pain is that Tolkien contradicts himself a lot. At one point, he says that this about Morgoth
"But [Morgoth's] cunning overreached his aim; his words touched too deep, and awoke a fire more fierce than he designed; and Feanor looked upon Melkor with eyes that burned through his fair semblance and pierced the cloaks of his mind, perceiving there his fierce lust for the Silmarils. Then hate overcame Feanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying "Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!" And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all the dwellers in [Arda]"

Okay, so Morgoth is the strongest in Arda? Wrong, Ungoliant the giant spider kicks his a*** and Morgoth needs an army of Balrogs to come save his a***
Edited by lazerbem, Feb 6 2015, 03:29 AM.
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lazerbem
Feb 6 2015, 03:22 AM
From what I know in LOTR, the Valar did create the Earth, I don't see why they couldn't destroy it. Also, one of the dragons in LOTR crushed a mountain range that was 500 miles wide and had peaks twice as tall as Everest by falling on it. However, Sauron is a Maiar and much weaker.

As for Sauron's finger, the sword was magical, Sauron was cocky, and in LOTR, willpower is a huge deal. Basically, fate intervenes on your part to help you out if you have more will and courage than your opponent. I would like to mention that the sword that cut off his finger was enchanted as f*** and basically created by one of the best smiths and Middle Earth and made specifically for use against creatures like Sauron.

For an example as to what happens when regular weapons touch Sauron, the Witchking of Angmar, trash compared to Sauron, destroys all weapons that touched his body, even one specifically enchanted to kill wraiths(though that one forced him to his knees and opened him up to a killing blow)

Another thing that makes scaling in LOTR such a mess is that Tolkien flat out said that he doesn't like the idea of A>B in terms of magic, that each magic is its own branch and you can't just say "this guy's magic was better".

EDIT: Another thing that's a pain is that Tolkien contradicts himself a lot. At one point, he says that this about Morgoth
"But [Morgoth's] cunning overreached his aim; his words touched too deep, and awoke a fire more fierce than he designed; and Feanor looked upon Melkor with eyes that burned through his fair semblance and pierced the cloaks of his mind, perceiving there his fierce lust for the Silmarils. Then hate overcame Feanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying "Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!" And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all the dwellers in [Arda]"

Okay, so Morgoth is the strongest in Arda? Wrong, Ungoliant the giant spider kicks his a*** and Morgoth needs an army of Balrogs to come save his a***
I've read the books. Don't remember much because of how incredibly confusing some parts were. Specially the Silmarrillion. That is impossible to read.

First: I believe Sauron DESTROYED the continent. I don't remember that part well enough, and my spanish version has probably many translation mistakes. Being a Maiar, he could survive by resurrecting, just like Gandalf did.

Second: Yeah, Ancalagon the Black fell from the sky after fighting the eagles from the gods that made him crash into what is now Mordor and crushed a couple mountains and awake most volcanoes in the area. Pretty neat huh? That bastard died from an elf, apperently. Not the fall.

Third: You're right, Sauron lost because he got cocky against weakling with will power. His pride has made him lose quite a few times already, such as when he lost to a girl and his dog (somehow). He's still pretty darn powerful, though. Only cheap tricks can actually kill him. He's still a little b*** in comparison with Morgoth.

Fourth: Never take Tolkien's logic seriously. What he wrote is what matters, he got confused after The Hobbit and LOTR.

Fifth: I don't think you should take that part in consideration, I think Morgoth was the most powerful INTELLIGENT being on Arda. Ungoliant is powerful, but also very stupid. Stupid enough to try to eat herself.
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lazerbem
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1. Well, destroying is still impressive. And on the subject of ressurecting, doesn't he need divine intervention for that? Otherwise Saruman would have popped up

3. On the subject of the werewolf, I believe it was a prophecy? Sauron tried to turn into the greatest wolf ever to kill the werewolf by exploiting a prophecy but I guess Sauron didn't count as wolf and so it backfired. And yes, he is weak compared to the guy who could cause planetary levels of destruction with his hammer

5. Then why the Hell use the word "mightiest"? Why not "most dangerous"? I find it funny how the Super Boo/Pure Boo thing is being repeated here
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Tim
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Just because Morgoth was the mightiest doesn't mean he is untouchable. If caught unawares and unprepared even the strongest may need support.

Also remember Ungoliant had fed upon the light of the trees and gained much bloated mass which made her more dangerous.
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lazerbem
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It's one thing to be caught offguard, it's another to have gotten your butt kicked so throughly that he needs a literal army of Balrogs to save him and Morgoth can't take time out of his day to obliterate her.

This is offtopic anyway. I wonder if I should make this into an LOTR feats thread?
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The Lord of the Dark

lazerbem
Feb 6 2015, 09:47 PM
I wonder if I should make this into an LOTR feats thread?
Sure.
Inconsistency FTW.
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Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?!

Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.
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