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3 FP 2nd Form Friezas vs 3rd Form Frieza
Topic Started: Jan 4 2015, 08:16 PM (2,659 Views)
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Why are people hard for post-Kaio Piccolo? It's like having him below Gohan and Krillin is treason.
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Pyrus
Jan 5 2015, 06:02 AM
Why are people hard for post-Kaio Piccolo? It's like having him below Gohan and Krillin is treason.
He was stated to be able to beat 1st Form Freeza had he united with Kami, and then we have the Elder Namek saying that the split caused Piccolo to lose half of his power.

2x Piccolo > 1st Form Freeza. It also lines up with what he gained in the Android Arc.
Edited by SSJ, Jan 5 2015, 06:04 AM.
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FutureProtagonist
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Then we have Krillin stating that he doesn't think they could win against Freeza, and Gohan himself seemed to agree based on his expression.
What's interesting here is this quote:

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5
Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…The squirt in particular hides so much inner strength that he doesn’t even know it himself…”

He's not talking about Gohan's rage boost potential. He freaks out when he sees that:

Chapter: 297 (DBZ 103), P11.2
Context: after Gohan snaps and beats up second form Freeza
Vegeta: “Un…unbelievable…That brat…So he can draw out this much power when he goes into a frenzy and loses his reason…?! Don’t tell me that he’s the one closest to Super Saiyan…”

He's talking about Gohan's power right in the here and now. He specifically states that Gohan is underestimating his own abilities. Once Vegeta says that, Gohan changes his mind about his power (and Krillin's) leading to the quote I already posted.
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He was stated to be able to beat 1st Form Freeza had he united with Kami, and then we have the Elder Namek saying that the split caused Piccolo to lose half of his power.

2x Piccolo > 1st Form Freeza. It also lines up with what he gained in the Android Arc.
Why does that mean he's above Krillin? How do we know that 2x Krillin isn't >> 1st form Freeza?
Edited by FutureProtagonist, Jan 5 2015, 06:21 AM.
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Quote:
 
What's interesting here is this quote:

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5
Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…The squirt in particular hides so much inner strength that he doesn’t even know it himself…”

He's not talking about Gohan's rage boost potential. He freaks out when he sees that:

Chapter: 297 (DBZ 103), P11.2
Context: after Gohan snaps and beats up second form Freeza
Vegeta: “Un…unbelievable…That brat…So he can draw out this much power when he goes into a frenzy and loses his reason…?! Don’t tell me that he’s the one closest to Super Saiyan…”

He's talking about Gohan's power right in the here and now. He specifically states that Gohan is underestimating his own abilities. Once Vegeta says that, Gohan changes his mind about his power (and Krillin's) leading to the quote I already posted.
Actually, since Vegeta is talking about Gohan's inner strength, he certainly isn't speaking about what he's currently putting out. He's saying that Gohan has strength that he doesn't know about, ergo, rage boosts which he has seen.

When he sees Gohan against 2nd Form Freeza, he isn't saying that he was unsure that Gohan could get rage boosts, he's saying that he was unaware that Gohan had so much inner power,

Also when Piccolo lands on Namek, he struggles to find any ki sources. He immediately sensed Freeza and goes on to say how incredible it is, but then he refers to Gohan, Krillin and suppressed Vegeta as "3 other ki nearby". He doesn't seem to think much of them.

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Why does that mean he's above Krillin? How do we know that 2x Krillin isn't >> 1st form Freeza?

That was my opinion, I was only trying to prove why Piccolo was strong.
Edited by SSJ, Jan 5 2015, 06:29 AM.
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FutureProtagonist
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Actually, since Vegeta is talking about Gohan's inner strength, he certainly isn't speaking about what he's currently putting out. He's saying that Gohan has strength that he doesn't know about, ergo, rage boosts which he has seen.
Has he really though?

Take a look at this one again:

Chapter: 223 (DBZ 29), P8.1-3, P10.4
Context: Vegeta was astonished at how the Earthlings could raise their powers. This time it was through Gohan’s Masenko attack.
Kuririn: “Is that G…Goku’s son…!? Wh…what an incredible ki…!!!”
Vegeta: “Battle power 2,800...!!! So they really do drastically change their battle powers!!”

He seems to think it's just Gohan hiding his battle power same as anyone else (seeing as he says 'they'). He doesn't realize that Gohan is special. I don't think we can say for certain that Vegeta knows of Gohan's rage boosts There's no evidence he got any while fighting alongside Vegeta either.
Quote:
 
Also when Piccolo lands on Namek, he struggles to find any ki sources. He immediately sensed Freeza and goes on to say how incredible it is, but then he refers to Gohan, Krillin and suppressed Vegeta as "3 other ki nearby". He doesn't seem to think much of them.
He does call them huge.

Chapter: 294 (DBZ 100), P2.2
Piccolo: “I feel an outrageously large ki far away…! Is th-this the monster called Freeza…!? There’s three huge ki close by…! That must be Gohan and the others…!”
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Ohhhh, don't you cut off the rest of that quote there ;)

Vegeta then goes on to say that Gohan's power has dropped all the way down to basically 0, which implies he knows it was some sort of boost. Nobody loses all of their ki from firing one blast.

About Piccolo, fair enough. Viz failed me there.
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Calling another ki "huge" doesn't necessarily mean it's bigger than the person saying it, but it doesn't hurt.

Piccolo's mergers don't make sense or line up, man.
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Ja, Krillin called Tenshinhan and Yamcha huge for example.

They do make sense, do the math.
Edited by SSJ, Jan 5 2015, 07:34 AM.
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What do you think Freeza was suppressing to in his first form?
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Fat Boo (Dabra) > Son Goku
Fat Boo (Dabra) > Vegeta
Fat Boo (Dabra) ~ Son Goku, Vegeta
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Jan 5 2015, 08:08 AM
What do you think Freeza was suppressing to in his first form?
300-400k.
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Jan 5 2015, 07:11 AM
Ohhhh, don't you cut off the rest of that quote there ;)

Vegeta then goes on to say that Gohan's power has dropped all the way down to basically 0, which implies he knows it was some sort of boost. Nobody loses all of their ki from firing one blast.
Why not? Vegeta just thinks he just used it all up.

Vegeta: “His power dropped all the way down. It seems he used it all up just now.”
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Jan 5 2015, 05:57 PM
Super Saiyan
Jan 5 2015, 07:11 AM
Ohhhh, don't you cut off the rest of that quote there ;)

Vegeta then goes on to say that Gohan's power has dropped all the way down to basically 0, which implies he knows it was some sort of boost. Nobody loses all of their ki from firing one blast.
Why not? Vegeta just thinks he just used it all up.

Vegeta: “His power dropped all the way down. It seems he used it all up just now.”
Why would he drop to 0 after one blast? There are no other examples of this in the manga.
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Who said he dropped to zero? Vegeta just said he dropped all the way down. That could mean he just went back to 981 or whatever.
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He used it all up just now.

Implies that he used most of his ki.
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