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Should Gohan have been angry at Goku?
Topic Started: Dec 23 2014, 12:42 AM (3,163 Views)
SSJsongojames
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Emmeth
Dec 23 2014, 02:12 PM
lazerbem
Dec 23 2014, 02:06 PM
Goku only brought trouble once with Raditz, everything after that had nothing to do with him, it would have happened anyway.
Androids and Cell were created because Goku destroyed RRA, so that entire arc was his fault.



Also, Frieza and King Cold came to earth because of Goku.

And if you wanna go deeper into other instance were Goku attracted bad guys:

- Master Shen and Tien wanted revenge
- Piccolo Jr wanted revenge
- Vegeta wanted revenge (He constantly said that he was gonna get back at Goku, and that nothing has changed between them. Also, he was still pure evil until the Buu arc)

The thing is, since the fall of the RRA Goku was (ironically enough) attracting bad guys with a variety of motives who were completely unpredictable at the time (save Piccolo and Frieza)

And each new threat increased in danger, so you can understand why Goku wanted to stay dead when you put these into consideration as well as understanding Goku's character as a whole.

Honestly, this would've been the perfect end to Goku's character arc. But that's getting off topic.
Edited by SSJsongojames, Dec 26 2014, 01:26 AM.
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
Dec 24 2014, 07:04 PM
He was able to replicate the emotions necessary for transforming into a Super Saiyan despite not being in the situation that he was thinking of.


I'm pretty sure SSJ2 was harder for Gohan to obtain. Otherwise, he would've simply obtain SSJ2 in the ROSAT.
Edited by SSJsongojames, Dec 26 2014, 05:37 PM.
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POOHEAD189
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Him watching Cell torture Goku and not feeling compelled to go and save him is being careless? If that's part of your plan, then your plan is ridiculous. If Goku expressed to Gohan that he wanted to utilise his anger, then Gohan could've done that. Picturing Freeza or Cell harming his friends would be a good enough trigger, and that would save Gohan from almost being bear-hugged to death. Goku doesn't even consider any other plan and it takes his son's screams and Piccolo to make him realise that 'no, get your head out of your *** and actually look at what's happening.'

Like I said earlier, Goku didn't condemn him at all. If Gohan didn't go out there, everyone would have died and Gohan would have had to fight ANYWAY. Piccolo made Goku feel selfish is what he made him feel. Piccolo couldn't see the fact that Gohan was the strongest so he made Goku feel bad. He made Goku nearly make a mistake.
I'm an emotional guy but sometimes you need to look past selfish desires (even if such a desire is to not see your son hurt) in order for...you know...the universe and everyone of your friends including your son lives.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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Kblo247
Dec 25 2014, 08:01 PM
Goku knew nothing about two kids who were younger than Gohan was at Cell. Goku popped in for a day and randomly decided the son he never met and a version of Trunks he has never even saw since he was an infant should fight for their life. It was the biggest d*** move he ever pulled. Think about it for a second, Vegeta at his worst knew they weren't and shouldn't have to deal with Buu. Goku decided oh they are strong, so let me hold back vs Buu and put two kindergarten kids at risk without even planning to fight beside him. Piccolo at least planned to fight alongside Gohan, even Krillin did when he got him the guru hax. Goku just promised them to Buu in a battle for it all and then left, reasoning hey I'm not going to be around forever.


Goku likely took into account that both have a means of using Fusion after witnessing they knew how to become Super Saiyans, plus no one at that time were capable of Fusing without getting average increase, Saiyans do and they'd just so happened to be two powerful kids who can transform.
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POOHEAD189
Dec 26 2014, 06:18 PM
Quote:
 
Him watching Cell torture Goku and not feeling compelled to go and save him is being careless? If that's part of your plan, then your plan is ridiculous. If Goku expressed to Gohan that he wanted to utilise his anger, then Gohan could've done that. Picturing Freeza or Cell harming his friends would be a good enough trigger, and that would save Gohan from almost being bear-hugged to death. Goku doesn't even consider any other plan and it takes his son's screams and Piccolo to make him realise that 'no, get your head out of your *** and actually look at what's happening.'

Like I said earlier, Goku didn't condemn him at all. If Gohan didn't go out there, everyone would have died and Gohan would have had to fight ANYWAY. Piccolo made Goku feel selfish is what he made him feel. Piccolo couldn't see the fact that Gohan was the strongest so he made Goku feel bad. He made Goku nearly make a mistake.
I'm an emotional guy but sometimes you need to look past selfish desires (even if such a desire is to not see your son hurt) in order for...you know...the universe and everyone of your friends including your son lives.
Saving the Universe is very important, I agree. Which is why Goku should've told Gohan about the plan. Gohan doesn't have to be completely oblivious to get angry; in fact, him knowing about it means that he can visualise something that makes him mad and draw his anger out. If Goku knew Gohan well, he'd know that Gohan doesn't get angry when he gets beaten up. He gets angry when his friends are in serious danger. Goku didn't realise that the catalyst in his plan had to be somebody besides Gohan being injured/dying. He thought that Gohan would get mad while fighting Cell by himself, but that obviously wasn't the case.

Piccolo almost made Goku's plan a reality in the worst and most effective way possible. If he'd rushed out there and tried to save Gohan, he'd get beaten to death, or at least very near. Which would spark Gohan's anger and cause him to transform.
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It was sparking him but it was death that triggered his anger.
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
Dec 27 2014, 03:13 AM
It was sparking him but it was death that triggered his anger.
And either Goku didn't realise that or was expecting one of his friends to die in order for his plan to work. Option one makes him completely oblivious and a bad father and option two makes him a total ***hole.
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Well after Piccolo told him about Gohan's desire or whatever, Goku was going to re-challenge Cell once more. So if he was a bad father, he would've let his Saiyan pride get in the way of letting Gohan fighting still but he doesn't, his human emotions and fatherly duty was to save Gohan at all cost.
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
Dec 27 2014, 03:25 AM
Well after Piccolo told him about Gohan's desire or whatever, Goku was going to re-challenge Cell once more. So if he was a bad father, he would've let his Saiyan pride get in the way of letting Gohan fighting still but he doesn't, his human emotions and fatherly duty was to save Gohan at all cost.
He realised his fatherly duty a bit late, though. If Piccolo hadn't given his little speech, Goku would've continued watching until Gohan just gave up completely and died. Considering his entire plan was based around Gohan getting angry, you'd think that he would've known what actually got Gohan angry...
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To be fair Cell would've stopped. And Goku wasn't there to see Gohan ever get angry so he wouldn't know exactly what angered him.
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Nanho
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Nagito Komaeda
Dec 24 2014, 10:29 AM
Nanho
Dec 24 2014, 04:35 AM
Why are people arguing what goku has done wrong as a normal person when thats the opposite of his character? Really, how clear does the manga have to make it for some people to understand, how very strange Goku is?

For the question, putting myself in Gohans place i'd be more upset i got my father killed than him not wanting to come back.... which might eventually cause severe depression, inadvertently this should make goku look even worst as a father. But again thinking this would mean your just ignorant when comes the main character of your fav anime..

So, Goku gets a free pass on being an absolute ***hole to his son and wife because he's strange and not norma
This is beyond ridiculous, it like arguing why someone evil doesnt do good or why someone insane doesn't act sane... Gokus meant to be extremely carefree and innocent. Its not as though akira cant create a good father, we see that with Bora. its just not what his character is meant to be.

I really cant believe this is being argued..and 5 pages too...
Edited by Nanho, Dec 27 2014, 04:13 AM.
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lazerbem
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Nanho
Dec 27 2014, 04:10 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Dec 24 2014, 10:29 AM
Nanho
Dec 24 2014, 04:35 AM
Why are people arguing what goku has done wrong as a normal person when thats the opposite of his character? Really, how clear does the manga have to make it for some people to understand, how very strange Goku is?

For the question, putting myself in Gohans place i'd be more upset i got my father killed than him not wanting to come back.... which might eventually cause severe depression, inadvertently this should make goku look even worst as a father. But again thinking this would mean your just ignorant when comes the main character of your fav anime..

So, Goku gets a free pass on being an absolute ***hole to his son and wife because he's strange and not norma
This is beyond ridiculous, it like arguing why someone evil doesnt do good or why someone insane doesn't act sane... Gokus meant to be extremely carefree and innocent. Its not as though akira cant create a good father, we see that with Bora. its just not what his character is meant to be.

I really cant believe this is being argued..and 5 pages too...
Boo was carefree and innocent too, didn't stop him from being destructive and harmful
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POOHEAD189
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Nagito Komaeda
Dec 27 2014, 03:10 AM
POOHEAD189
Dec 26 2014, 06:18 PM
Quote:
 
Him watching Cell torture Goku and not feeling compelled to go and save him is being careless? If that's part of your plan, then your plan is ridiculous. If Goku expressed to Gohan that he wanted to utilise his anger, then Gohan could've done that. Picturing Freeza or Cell harming his friends would be a good enough trigger, and that would save Gohan from almost being bear-hugged to death. Goku doesn't even consider any other plan and it takes his son's screams and Piccolo to make him realise that 'no, get your head out of your *** and actually look at what's happening.'

Like I said earlier, Goku didn't condemn him at all. If Gohan didn't go out there, everyone would have died and Gohan would have had to fight ANYWAY. Piccolo made Goku feel selfish is what he made him feel. Piccolo couldn't see the fact that Gohan was the strongest so he made Goku feel bad. He made Goku nearly make a mistake.
I'm an emotional guy but sometimes you need to look past selfish desires (even if such a desire is to not see your son hurt) in order for...you know...the universe and everyone of your friends including your son lives.
Saving the Universe is very important, I agree. Which is why Goku should've told Gohan about the plan. Gohan doesn't have to be completely oblivious to get angry; in fact, him knowing about it means that he can visualise something that makes him mad and draw his anger out. If Goku knew Gohan well, he'd know that Gohan doesn't get angry when he gets beaten up. He gets angry when his friends are in serious danger. Goku didn't realise that the catalyst in his plan had to be somebody besides Gohan being injured/dying. He thought that Gohan would get mad while fighting Cell by himself, but that obviously wasn't the case.

Piccolo almost made Goku's plan a reality in the worst and most effective way possible. If he'd rushed out there and tried to save Gohan, he'd get beaten to death, or at least very near. Which would spark Gohan's anger and cause him to transform.
Maybe Goku saw Gohan in the RoSaT get angry at just not being strong enough and decided he should use that. But you are right on the friends dying thing. I'm just saying that Gohan did need to fight and Goku saw that.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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