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How many times stronger is Ultimate Gohan than SSJ3 Goku?
Topic Started: Dec 21 2014, 01:46 AM (6,367 Views)
+ Pyrus
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superperfectnerd
Dec 21 2014, 08:42 PM
I just thought of another option they could have used against Kid Buu. Mr Buu could have temporarily absorbed ssj3 Goku and ssj2 Vegeta.
Goku may have allowed it, but I doubt Vegeta would do it considering he didn't want to fuse anymore, and absorption is kind of the same thing.
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superperfectnerd
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Just Buu with Goku would have been enough I guess. They wanted to fight alone to begin with but once they realised that wasn't gonna work they made other plans. Ganging up on Buu and borrowing energy from every creature across 2 planets is hardly any less of a blow to their pride than fusion.
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myst1c
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クリストファー真鍮

Gohan may have his moments of glory but at the end of the day, Goku is always stronger. At this point, the gap is even larger then the one in the Boo Arc, because someone recently became a god.

Goku is maximum.
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olliebalollie
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myst1c
Dec 21 2014, 09:37 PM
Gohan may have his moments of glory but at the end of the day, Goku is always stronger. At this point, the gap is even larger then the one in the Boo Arc, because someone recently became a god.

Goku is maximum.
Vegeta and Beers > Goku.
Edited by olliebalollie, Dec 22 2014, 04:20 AM.


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+ Havoc_Wreaker
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Popcorn

Pyrus
Dec 21 2014, 02:11 AM
If I applied strict multipliers, Gohan would come out hundreds of times stronger than Goku. But I don't feel that gap was ever implied. I think they're within 10x of each other ignoring multipliers.


oh my lord what did i just read........

old kp here
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8501691&t=8367450
granted you did use seg back then BUT thats all you went by so...........

my face now :cool:
Edited by Havoc_Wreaker, Dec 22 2014, 02:30 PM.
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+ Pyrus
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Yondaime
Dec 22 2014, 02:27 PM
Pyrus
Dec 21 2014, 02:11 AM
If I applied strict multipliers, Gohan would come out hundreds of times stronger than Goku. But I don't feel that gap was ever implied. I think they're within 10x of each other ignoring multipliers.


oh my lord what did i just read........

old kp here
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8501691&t=8367450
granted you did use seg back then BUT thats all you went by so...........

my face now :cool:
Keep in mind I'm not throwing out the power chains that were stated and/or shown. I'm simply explaining that whilst reading the narrative, I never got the feeling that Goku and Gohan were hundreds of times apart. When I apply huge multipliers, that's when the huge gap shows up. In other words:

Reading
SSj3 Goku - 1
SSj Gotenks pre - 1.1
Base Gotenks pre - 1.2
SSj Gotenks post - 1.5
SSj2 Gotenks - 1.6
SSj3 Gotenks - 2
Gohan - 2.2

Multipliers
SSj3 Goku - 1
SSj Gotenks pre - 1.2
Base Gotenks post - 2
SSj Gotenks post - 20
SSj2 Gotenks - 40
SSj3 Gotenks - 160
Gohan - 200+
Edited by Pyrus, Dec 22 2014, 02:43 PM.
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+ Havoc_Wreaker
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old you would kick you in the balls
but fair enough, ur first list gaps be too small and second one too big imo
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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

I think that because Goku thought that himself in base would be a good candidate to do Potara fusion with Gohan, there's no way Gohan could be "hundreds of times" stronger than SSj3 Goku, or even 10x.

3-5x at the most.

However, if you go be Toriyama's implied multiplier of SSj only being 10x, not 50x, than the gap is much closer as well.
This would only make SSj3 80x base, not 400x. Or even a minimal of 40x if SSj forms simply double the previous forms' power.

I just figure that despite the gaps we see in the Freeza arc, Toriyama wrote the story with 10x in mind, not 50x. Therefore this is the context that the story was written, which with gaps like that, Goku's statements about being a good match for Gohan for Potara then makes a little sense.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Dec 22 2014, 03:30 PM.
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* Yu Narukami
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Ketchup Revenge
Dec 22 2014, 03:29 PM
I think that because Goku thought that himself in base would be a good candidate to do Potara fusion with Gohan, there's no way Gohan could be "hundreds of times" stronger than SSj3 Goku, or even 10x.

3-5x at the most.

However, if you go be Toriyama's implied multiplier of SSj only being 10x, not 50x, than the gap is much closer as well.
This would only make SSj3 80x base, not 400x. Or even a minimal of 40x if SSj forms simply double the previous forms' power.

I just figure that despite the gaps we see in the Freeza arc, Toriyama wrote the story with 10x in mind, not 50x. Therefore this is the context that the story was written, which with gaps like that, Goku's statements about being a good match for Gohan for Potara then makes a little sense.
Wasn't Goku intending on transforming once they fused?

Gohan: 1,000
Goku: 1
Gohkan: 1,001
SSJ Gohkan: 10,010

Even if the end result was weaker than Gohan, Goku was under the assumption that the end result could transform.
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superperfectnerd
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I think once fused Goku's body would automatically experience Gohan's advantages instantaneously. So it'd be like a full potential base form Goku (a little stronger than ssj3 Goku) fusing with full potential base form Gohan and the result wouldn't be able to transform but would have immense power from the potara fusion multiplier. It doesn't matter that Goku is far weaker just as it didn't matter that Kibito was way below Kaioshin. The result was still a much stronger fighter. I also think if Goku fused with Satan or Dende, he would also get significantly stronger, just nowhere near Buuhan's level.
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Fearless Saiyajin
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Legendary of Super Saiyan

Goku said the fusees cannot reach the power of their fusion. Therefore Base Gokhan FD ~ Bootenks.
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Nagito Komaeda
Dec 22 2014, 03:35 PM
Ketchup Revenge
Dec 22 2014, 03:29 PM
I think that because Goku thought that himself in base would be a good candidate to do Potara fusion with Gohan, there's no way Gohan could be "hundreds of times" stronger than SSj3 Goku, or even 10x.

3-5x at the most.

However, if you go be Toriyama's implied multiplier of SSj only being 10x, not 50x, than the gap is much closer as well.
This would only make SSj3 80x base, not 400x. Or even a minimal of 40x if SSj forms simply double the previous forms' power.

I just figure that despite the gaps we see in the Freeza arc, Toriyama wrote the story with 10x in mind, not 50x. Therefore this is the context that the story was written, which with gaps like that, Goku's statements about being a good match for Gohan for Potara then makes a little sense.
Wasn't Goku intending on transforming once they fused?

Gohan: 1,000
Goku: 1
Gohkan: 1,001
SSJ Gohkan: 10,010

Even if the end result was weaker than Gohan, Goku was under the assumption that the end result could transform.
That doesn't really hold water considering that Goku stated that he'd be weaker if he'd fused with Mr. Satan, who is vastly weaker than him. Your logic suggests that no matter the gap, the resulting fusion always comes out stronger than either of its original counterparts.

Of course we don't really know anything about the intricacies of Potara fusion, but I'd assume that Gotan would be able to transform considering that Goku has that ability, and Fusions seem to have their own abilities and techniques.

Unless both counterparts need to have the ability to transform, however that also goes against your reasoning because we see that Gohan isn't able to. Old Kai tells him to transform, and he attempts it, and the only thing that happens is his power increases. He doesn't actually really change like a person would if they were to go from base to Super Saiyan.
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* Yu Narukami
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Ketchup Revenge
Dec 22 2014, 05:49 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Dec 22 2014, 03:35 PM
Ketchup Revenge
Dec 22 2014, 03:29 PM
I think that because Goku thought that himself in base would be a good candidate to do Potara fusion with Gohan, there's no way Gohan could be "hundreds of times" stronger than SSj3 Goku, or even 10x.

3-5x at the most.

However, if you go be Toriyama's implied multiplier of SSj only being 10x, not 50x, than the gap is much closer as well.
This would only make SSj3 80x base, not 400x. Or even a minimal of 40x if SSj forms simply double the previous forms' power.

I just figure that despite the gaps we see in the Freeza arc, Toriyama wrote the story with 10x in mind, not 50x. Therefore this is the context that the story was written, which with gaps like that, Goku's statements about being a good match for Gohan for Potara then makes a little sense.
Wasn't Goku intending on transforming once they fused?

Gohan: 1,000
Goku: 1
Gohkan: 1,001
SSJ Gohkan: 10,010

Even if the end result was weaker than Gohan, Goku was under the assumption that the end result could transform.
That doesn't really hold water considering that Goku stated that he'd be weaker if he'd fused with Mr. Satan, who is vastly weaker than him. Your logic suggests that no matter the gap, the resulting fusion always comes out stronger than either of its original counterparts.

Of course we don't really know anything about the intricacies of Potara fusion, but I'd assume that Gotan would be able to transform considering that Goku has that ability, and Fusions seem to have their own abilities and techniques.

Unless both counterparts need to have the ability to transform, however that also goes against your reasoning because we see that Gohan isn't able to. Old Kai tells him to transform, and he attempts it, and the only thing that happens is his power increases. He doesn't actually really change like a person would if they were to go from base to Super Saiyan.
Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P2.5
Context: Goku contemplates merging with Mister Satan
Goku: “It-it’s no use doing it with Satan…I can’t win if a power of 1,000 becomes 1,001…No, if things go bad, ain’t I gonna get weaker than I am now…!?”

''If things go bad''. He doesn't confirm that he'd get weaker, he simply questions it, meaning that it's a possibility. He also ponders the idea of getting a little stronger in the same quote, so it could go either way.

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3
Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!”

Elder Kaioshin is the one who talked about Gohan's new power and explained what happened while also being the one who knows how Potara works, yet he still says that they'd be able to transform after they fuse.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Dec 22 2014, 06:03 PM.
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Shazam
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The Knight Who Say Ni

OVER 9 THOUSAND !!!



sorry but i had to, it asked for it.
Edited by Shazam, Dec 22 2014, 06:13 PM.
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superperfectnerd
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Goku doesn't necessarily know what the f*** he's talking about.
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