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Gai (7th Gate) takes on Dragonball
Topic Started: Dec 21 2014, 12:16 AM (7,637 Views)
* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

How far do you think he makes it? Are any of the characters able to withstand his punches?

Considering the nature of his signature attack, Hirudora, I doubt it;

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+ Solid Snake
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Yeah that was some deep and impressive s*** no bulls***. But if the attack isn't potent enough to get through their Ki defense, then even Guy won't be able to do anything, despite how strong it looked. DB don't work like that, if your Ki is bigger then weaker attacks of what you're capable of doing with your owns, then you don't have nothing to worry about. Now Night Guy will definitely hurt Base Goku at Frieza but Kaioken times 20 is another matter.
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* Yu Narukami
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
Dec 27 2014, 03:18 AM
Yeah that was some deep and impressive s*** no bulls***. But if the attack isn't potent enough to get through their Ki defense, then even Guy won't be able to do anything, despite how strong it looked. DB don't work like that, if your Ki is bigger then weaker attacks of what you're capable of doing with your owns, then you don't have nothing to worry about. Now Night Guy will definitely hurt Base Goku at Frieza but Kaioken times 20 is another matter.
I'm of the opinion that Night Guy would hurt/kill anyone in DBZ. He's moving fast enough to distort space itself, meaning that he's faster than light. Taking a punch from somebody who can move that fast is going to result in you getting torn apart. The only reason Madara survived is because of his regeneration; without it, he'd be dead.

Compare SSJ3 Goku's punch to Gai's Evening Elephant. Kaio's planet is denser, yes, but it isn't that big. Gai pushed Madara down hundreds, if not thousands of meters into the ground with the air pressure from one of his attacks. Heck, compare that with the islands. Goku gets punched through some islands, not a bad feat. But absolutely nothing compared to Gai's attack.
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Difference of opinions. Agree to Disagree? Don't really like these debates anyway tbh.
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
Dec 27 2014, 03:09 AM
@SteveTheir Ki helps the physical aspect though, if Recoome big buff self punched a Final Form Frieza, do you think Recoome muscle strength is going to dent him despite Frieza is vastly more slimmer? No, because Frieza's Ki is augmenting his body's physical abilities beyond whatever Recoome can muster in a punch in a more stable fashion (as opposed to Trunks' inexperienced USSJ status whereas he's simply pouring Ki into his muscles, thus giving him superb brute strength).

Frieza:
Strength - 5/ with Ki - 9
Speed - 7/ with Ki - 11
Durability - 9/ with Ki - 13

@ SsjVegito96 Tell me this, was Goku able to move freely when he transformed (aka giving himself more Ki)? As you say their pure physical strength isn't all that too high, but once that above human strength is heighten with Ki, that force allows them more power in their muscles which allows them to do more than they ever could alone. And what they destroy with their punches means little since base Goku at Namek, if missed, will only dent the ground, not shatter multiple islands.
So what you're saying is when goku attempted to lift the 40 tons in base form, he wasn't increasing his physical strength with ki whatsoever? And he did when he turned ssj? Why didn't he just power up normally then? Turning ssj shouldn't have been necessary because base goku at that point of the series was capable of pushing back planet shattering energy blasts before that

@nagito I disagree. The hole he made in the ground doesn't look thousands of meters deep and I don't believe he could've made a hole in king kais planet like goku did
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 27 2014, 03:34 AM.
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* Yu Narukami
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
Dec 27 2014, 03:28 AM
Difference of opinions. Agree to Disagree? Don't really like these debates anyway tbh.
Fair enough. I'm increasingly losing interest in Other Versus altogether as well, so there's no point in pushing to continue a debate that neither of us are interested in.
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Ssj3vegito96
Dec 27 2014, 03:32 AM
xGOKUdaFALLENx
Dec 27 2014, 03:09 AM
@SteveTheir Ki helps the physical aspect though, if Recoome big buff self punched a Final Form Frieza, do you think Recoome muscle strength is going to dent him despite Frieza is vastly more slimmer? No, because Frieza's Ki is augmenting his body's physical abilities beyond whatever Recoome can muster in a punch in a more stable fashion (as opposed to Trunks' inexperienced USSJ status whereas he's simply pouring Ki into his muscles, thus giving him superb brute strength).

Frieza:
Strength - 5/ with Ki - 9
Speed - 7/ with Ki - 11
Durability - 9/ with Ki - 13

@ SsjVegito96 Tell me this, was Goku able to move freely when he transformed (aka giving himself more Ki)? As you say their pure physical strength isn't all that too high, but once that above human strength is heighten with Ki, that force allows them more power in their muscles which allows them to do more than they ever could alone. And what they destroy with their punches means little since base Goku at Namek, if missed, will only dent the ground, not shatter multiple islands.
So what you're saying is when goku attempted to lift the 40 tons in base form, he wasn't increasing his physical strength with ki whatsoever? And he did when he turned ssj? Why didn't he just power up normally then? Turning ssj shouldn't have been necessary because base goku at that point of the series was capable of pushing back planet shattering energy blasts before that

@nagito I disagree. The hole he made in the ground doesn't look thousands of meters deep and I don't believe he could've made a hole in king kais planet like goku did
I don't believe I said Goku could lift 40 tons. He could Shadow Box with 40 tons of weight on his body though. Also, it's commonly accepted that their base hardly increased after the Android arc so around 18 or 24 tons where around their max in base with Ki augmenting them, without it around 2 tons give or take.
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K. I can agree with goku being able to lift more than 40 tons. But I'm not going to agree with the idea that ssj goku can push an object that weighs more than a planet. They could do that in base form against energy blasts. And there's still the fact they can get pinned down by rubble even though they push back those powerful blasts. So them being effected differently by energy based attacks still stands
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
Dec 27 2014, 02:14 AM
Ssj3vegito96
Dec 26 2014, 07:06 PM
Biobroly288 what you've pointed out is that db characters have better durability in terms of energy based attacks. Blasts and explosions is where dbz characters shine in destructive power and durability. In terms of physical attacks I'm sorry but they're not as powerful gai till we get into the higher tiers of dbz
This does not compute because we all know they're physical attacks are augmented by their overall Ki. Cell Jrs. have hands the size of 5 year olds yet their punches bring grown adults to their knees. Their Ki is/are effectively keeping all regards of attacks heighten above normal limits and allows them to damage people with absurd durability.

In regards of environment damage, it's shown plenty of time they indeed have these moments, just not as drastic. If what you guys say is true, base Goku at Frieza wouldn't bust an multiple islands, but will only dent the area he's impacted with. What matter is what the person receiving the attack does afterwards (flopping and crashing through these islands). So just because these feats occur rarely doesn't mean they can't do it again.

My bottom line is that their physical attacks are still in the area of Ki attacks.
They're in different areas, but still connected. Saying they're in the same area because of a connection is hard core fallacy. Physical strength is boosted by Ki. We know that already.

The environmental, durability, lifting and stirking feats for ki and phsyical attacks are very far apart, and to imply they do the same damage would require very compelling evidence (doesn't exist).

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+ Steve
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
Dec 27 2014, 03:09 AM
@SteveTheir Ki helps the physical aspect though, if Recoome big buff self punched a Final Form Frieza, do you think Recoome muscle strength is going to dent him despite Frieza is vastly more slimmer? No, because Frieza's Ki is augmenting his body's physical abilities beyond whatever Recoome can muster in a punch in a more stable fashion (as opposed to Trunks' inexperienced USSJ status whereas he's simply pouring Ki into his muscles, thus giving him superb brute strength).

Frieza:
Strength - 5/ with Ki - 9
Speed - 7/ with Ki - 11
Durability - 9/ with Ki - 13

@ SsjVegito96 Tell me this, was Goku able to move freely when he transformed (aka giving himself more Ki)? As you say their pure physical strength isn't all that too high, but once that above human strength is heighten with Ki, that force allows them more power in their muscles which allows them to do more than they ever could alone. And what they destroy with their punches means little since base Goku at Namek, if missed, will only dent the ground, not shatter multiple islands.
Which is where Ki defence comes in because Recoome's energy is vastly inferior to Frieza's, it puts up a shield not related to muscle durability.

Which is why Base form is weaker because their Ki shield isn't as tough, yet their physical strength stays the same.
Goku going about 40 tons, while clearly not powered up is because he altered his muscle mass with SSj.
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BioBroly288
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Here i thought i put this debate to rest looks like i didnt. Oh well, Anyway wats the point iin performing NG when it kills the user andthe quarter in db and all of Z and GT would survive it. Thats just stupid if madara could survive it than any one who durability is higher can as well.
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Madara did survive but it was due to his regeneration. I think if Madara has mountain ++ durability then the person from DB would have to have 1.5-2x as much as that in order for them tank or not be too injured. Saying that, I think he'll anyone who's not Goku and Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga. Vegeta took a planet or core buster to the body and came back for more.
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Actually, I needed to added this.

Vegeta tanked two because of his Galick Gun and Goku's KKx4 Kamehameha, both were match prior so that's already two planet or core busters added into the mix.
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Nobody in dragon ball is stronger than 8th gate gai. 23rd Goku cannot put a several hundred foot hole in the ground with the air current of one causal punch. A casual blast yeah probably but not a punch. If he hits him with a blast then he will probably win. Hand to hand combat gai takes this

/thread
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 29 2014, 12:43 AM.
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Ssj3vegito96
Dec 29 2014, 12:41 AM
Nobody in dragon ball is stronger than 8th gate gai. 23rd Goku cannot put a several hundred foot hole in the ground with the air current of one causal punch. A casual blast yeah probably but not a punch. If he hits him with a blast then he will probably win. Hand to hand combat gai takes this

/thread
Exactly.

Gai's PUNCHES are equal to DB's laser beams, that accounts for nothing?

Look how fast people can punch in DB compared to how fast they set off powerful beams.
Now make their punches as powerful as those beams and you get Gai.

If anyone tried to take him on hand to hand from DB he'd smash them to pieces they have nothing close to his sheer Might(get it) at all.

Course 7th Gate is scaled back a bit but his punches still make massive shockwave/vacuum's that do crazy amounts of damage for simply being a punch.


Picture it like this.
There are two houses to be destroyed, the DB equivalent of destroying their house is to put a bomb in it which does sizeable damage.
Gai's way of doing it is like calling Bruce Lee over to punch the house once and achieve the same effect.

One uses an explosive and one is just a punch, the punch being far more impressive as it does the same damage through sheer strength not in this case hax Ki levels of destruction.
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Ssj3vegito96
Dec 29 2014, 12:41 AM
Nobody in dragon ball is stronger than 8th gate gai. 23rd Goku cannot put a several hundred foot hole in the ground with the air current of one causal punch. A casual blast yeah probably but not a punch. If he hits him with a blast then he will probably win. Hand to hand combat gai takes this

/thread
I only took account of the first sentence. Define what you mean by strong. Because in DB, if your Ki is higher than your opponent (Guy) then you're not getting through them despite how impressive it is in Naruto. As I said, Recoome is physically and visually more buffed then Final Form Frieza, but despite that his Ki level is too low for that to mean anything harmful to Frieza because his Ki is augmenting his overall abilities.

Sure 8th Gate Guy can smash pieces of the ground, but you guys are overlooking the fact that he uses these attacks on mountain level durability ninja. We know Goku and most DB cast can tank blasts of this magnitude through statements and scaling via their level Ki.

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