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Dis-Credting the theory that Goku or Vegeta reached their limit in the Majin Boo Arc
Topic Started: Dec 14 2014, 05:53 AM (813 Views)
myst1c
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クリストファー真鍮

Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P11.2-3
Context: after Polunga restores Goku’s stamina and he’s about to finish Boo off with the Genki-Dama
Goku: “I wanna fight you one-on-one…I’ll be waiting…And I’ll have gotten much, much better…See ya later!”

Goku blatantly stating he needs to train in order to defeat Boo.

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

Goku even states Vegeta SSJin2 Post 10 years training > Kid Boo Full Power

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P1.3
Context: Bulma complains about how Goku never comes to visit
Bulma: “5 years! 5 years ago, when everyone was getting together, and even then you said you were training and didn’t come!”

A fairly straight forward quote that says Goku was continuing to train after the Majin Boo Arc.

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P1.3
Goten: “Th-that can’t be! How can I go up against Boo right in the first round?!”
Goku: “It’s only a problem because you keep slacking off in your training.”

This quote implies a Base Goten surpassing a Good Boo with only 10 years of training.

4. Oob [#BO4#OOB]
Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P2.4-8
Context: Vegeta asks Goku why he’s entering the next Tenkaichi Budoukai
Goku: “Because someone’s entering who seems incredible! I’ve had my eye on him for awhile, and he came to the tournament grounds this morning.”
Vegeta: “What!? …I don’t feel any ki that strong…”
Goku: “He’s completely suppressing his ki now. ..But somehow I can tell…that he’s definitely strong…”

Goku says Oob is able to control his Ki.

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P17.1 [Kanzenban]
Context: after Goku flies off with Oob
Vegeta: “I’ll definitely win soon. You’ll see, Kakarot… ”

Despite knowing of Super Saiyan 3, Vegeta insists that he will still somehow defeat Goku and that the gap is pretty close by this point of time.

All of these quotes imply this:

Boo Saga

Majin Vegeta: 10
Goku SSjin2 [Boo]: 10
Goku SSJ3: 40
Good Boo: 20

Kid Boo: 60

EOZ

Goten Base [Hypothetical: 25
Super Saiyan: 2,500

Good Boo: 20

Vegeta Base [EOZ]: 180
Super Saiyan: 9,000
Super Saiyan 2: 18,000

Goku Base [EOZ]: 50
Super Saiyan: 2,500
Super Saiyan 2: 5,000
Super Saiyan 3: 20,000

Oob Calm: 6
Enraged: 60

There you have it. This all goes against anybody who tries to say Goku & Vegeta hit walls, or even the kids for that matter.

For a conclusion I'll use Akira Toriyama himself!

At times when there are no battles, or on days off, what sorts of things do the warriors do?
Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo train; Gohan studies; Bulma does [scientific] research; Satan makes appearances at events; and Kame-Sen’nin watches videos.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/chozenshu-1-we-asked-akira-toriyama-2013/
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+ Clearin
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Vegeta was brought past his limits in the Boo saga. Though in DBZ limits seem to raise as a character gets older.
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Professor Gohan
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Yeah, limits just refill. Not a big deal. DBZ characters have shown to break limits without a problem, over time.
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SuperSaiyan1993
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans

The issue is simply lazy writing. The story seemed to strongly imply that Goku and Vegeta were reaching their limits.

After Goku underwent 7 years of training in ideal Otherworld conditions and after Vegeta received a potential unlock from Babidi, they barely surpassed CG Gohan.

Yet, at EoZ, Base Goku is irrefutably stated to be approximately equal to Kid Buu, and Vegeta & Goku both say they can beat Good Buu in Base.

So we have to accept it because it is stated as fact. As a writing choice, it would've been much better to end things with Kid Buu's defeat.
Edited by SuperSaiyan1993, Dec 18 2014, 05:35 PM.
We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.
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sekzee
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I simply attribute this to Saiyan physiology.

Strong opponent? Body must adapt.
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superperfectnerd
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Yeah, I think Goku and Vegeta's progression is dependant on the power they've witnessed. Goku as a kid could become stronger than King Piccolo. After the Cell saga they needed to little more than double their power to reach Cell and Gohan's level, so that's what they did. Goku also found a new form thanks to Otherworld. After the Buu saga they'd fought Buuhan and been Vegetto so a new bar was set.
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Griffzilla
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I think when they address their limits they are talking about that specific time frame. Like when Babidi took Vegeta past his limits I just think he powered him up past his max power level. Vegeta worked to get ssj2 because that's all he thought he could get probably. He never really pushed to find the next level until it was revealed that there was one. With the ussj being the exception but even then it was agreeded upon by him and Goku they had to go beyond ssj. Goku kept powering up in other world and found ssj3. Given him this form he was leaps and bounds beyond his cg self as his eoz is the Buu saga Goku. Even comparing cg Vegeta to Buu saga Vegeta and there's a big gap.

How a fighter could keep training and not get any stronger is beyond me, especially when they stay in their primes forever. Maybe they pleatued at a given point but they always came back stronger after the pleatue. Then again Goku never seemed to pleatue or peak, he was constantly improving.
"I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean
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superperfectnerd
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Goku's a genius when it comes to training. Vegeta just tortures his body continuously.
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