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Did Toriyama retcon Goku and Vegeta's potential?
Topic Started: Dec 11 2014, 03:35 AM (935 Views)
olliebalollie
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I don't have the exact quotes on me because I'm using someone else laptop.

Anyway, I do remember during the Saiyan Arc, Vegeta mentions that his bloodline is from royalty and his powers or potential will always be ahead of Goku's.

So potential wise, Vegeta > Goku.

Goku defeated [along with help from Gohan, Piccolo, Kuririn and Yajirobe] Vegeta because he trained under Kaio-sama, in which he learned the Kaio-ken technique which allowed Goku to use KK x2 and KK x3.

As the series goes on, Goku has studied under Roshi, Kami, Karin, Kaio-sama which all helped him achieve greatness.

So when it came to serious training, Goku had the edge over Vegeta because 1. he was willing to learn from everybody, 2. he was a genius when it comes to training = the training method he did with Gohan.

So from the 2 points, it was clear Goku far surpassed Vegeta after using the ROSAT once.

So intelligence > potential.

During the Boo Arc, Vegeta mentions something odd, Goku had been born with greater potential and talent than his own…which was the reason why there would always be a growing gap between them that no matter how hard he trained, he wouldn’t be able to close.

Question: Is that retcon or am I miss reading the line?


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Saberoph
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In the Saiyan arc Vegeta needed a reality check, that the entire Universe didn't revolve around him and that another Saiyan could overpower him.

I don't believe a retcon happened here, but then again I don't consider a retcon official until the Author says they did it(Of course not specificly saying "Yes I retconned this" but just saying I later changed my mind and changed it to this).

But that's just me.
Edited by Saberoph, Dec 11 2014, 03:45 AM.
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olliebalollie
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But since when was Goku born with a talent and potential greater than Vegeta's?

Elite > low class Saiyans.

I thought the whole point of Goku's power [at that point] was due to training and zenkai.


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Saberoph
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I don't know... it seemed to me that Kakarrot had a greater Potential than Vegeta, and given Vegeta's history and knowing Kakarrot died fighting Raditz, and Raditz was a low class... it's pretty obvious Vegeta assumed that and expected hi Potential to be greater.

I believe Vegeta was in his right to believe that too, but I look at it more of Vegeta was just mistaken.
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SuperSaiyan1993
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans

It wasn't a fact though. It was a presumption.

See, Elite Saiyans were born with a higher power level than Lower Class Saiyans.

So everyone assumed that Elite Saiyans would always be more powerful.

However, Goku shows them that the head-start isn't the sole determinant of potential. He proved them wrong.

Goku became more powerful than Vegeta because he made better choices. Two of the most important choices are the following:

-- More willing and receptive to learning techniques from others [King Kai, Yardrats]

-- Trained with a sparring partner and consequently became significantly more powerful after only one trip in the Rosat
We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.
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Saberoph
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Also, he learned that his body needs rest instead of brutalizing it during Training.

Thought that was just as important.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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+ Kaboom
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It's almost as if "potential" is a vague concept that's constantly fluctuating and manifests differently from person to person.
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* Crashbreaka
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Captain Oblivious

I just think that Vegeta was born generally stronger, but Goku ended up being more talented. Plus yeah, what Kaboom said.
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Fearless Saiyajin
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Legendary of Super Saiyan

For me, Elite Saiyans used to be greater battle power than the low class which he assumed that he's potential is greater than Goku.

During the fight between both of them before Boo was revived, he mentioned that he trained harder than Goku but its just Goku used to be inteligent than him and that makes their gap remained.
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olliebalollie
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#1. Toriyama unofficially retcon the origin of Majin Boo and the Kaioshins. More specifically Boo's origin. I remember in the manga, it was said that Babadi's father created Boo, in the interview he acknowledges it and says something different. To me that means unofficially retcon.

#2. Vegeta was willing to sell his soul to catch up to Goku, so there must be some truth to that. Now, many of you's may say "how ironic, you're the one that don't trust Vegeta's statement, the difference is Vegeta did sell his soul to have SS2 be equal to Goku's along with confirmation by Goku.




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Fearless Saiyajin
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Legendary of Super Saiyan

AT said that Boo already exist before Bibidi was born something like that. And Bibidi is just Babidi.
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+ Pyrus
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I'm normally all for what an author says about his own work, and you can pull up numerous posts of mine confirming this. What I don't abide by is when an author blatantly contradicts his own work in what I can only assume was a spur of the moment answer (i.e. an asspull), which is what Toriyama's description of Boo's origin and Babidi secretly being Bibidi sound like. The latter is entirely contradicted by the content of the manga (so Babidi is Bibidi but has no idea what Boo is or what he should look like? sounds legit), and the former would also fall in line with that, though to a lesser extent.
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Saberoph
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I follow the notion if it's stated to be a retcon by either the author or creator(In this case both), then it's not a retcon. Also, I don't follow something if there's is a contradiction.
Edited by Saberoph, Dec 18 2014, 07:02 PM.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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Professor Gohan
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As time went by, they were able to see how each other's potential evened out.

at the beginning it seemed more about arrogance.
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