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NEW DBZ MOVIE 2015: Fukkatsu no F (Warning: Spoilers in Topic)
Topic Started: Jul 15 2014, 04:56 AM (364,313 Views)
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Kblo247
Jan 3 2015, 01:28 AM
All we see is that Vegeta is shown genuine teamwork without a selfish motive and friendship when he meets the Z fighters. They let him go. But you know for a fact he paid them back 10 fold, more than they did him. He let Gohan go when he first sees him on name. HE saves them from Guido repaying his debt. He heals Goku, who didn't heal him before. He saved them versus initial frieze when they are shaking and he steps in. When he's being beat they don't lift a finger and are frozen in fear. He returns to fight Frieza when he has no shot in his mind when frieza comes to earth. He saves Goku from 19. He is the only one in the manga to even help Gohan vs Cell.
I think you're glorifying Vegeta a bit, in the Freeza arc especially. Vegeta only kept saving the others because he wanted their help. He only killed Guldo then because he had an opening, and he understood fighting him one on one would have put him at a disadvantage.

He does not help the others when they're being beaten by Freeza. In fact when Freeza was killing Gohan, Vegeta literally said: "I don't care if that brat dies" and his only concern was how Freeza was going to kill him. He even insults Krillin for saving Dende instead of himself.

Vegeta was a completely selfish a***** in the Namek, and even most of the Cell saga. He almost let his son and wife die, and when confronted about it he showed no care at all.

Cell saga Vegeta even says that his heart is "pure evil", so there's really no defending him for these arcs.
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Izanagi!

Goku beat Boo. You can argue that it was the Genki Dama all you like, but Goku's the one who used the technique and he's the one who pushed it to overpower Boo.

Vegeta might've been a prick earlier on in the series, but he and Goku switched roles in Battle of Gods. Vegeta's there, completely throwing away his pride in order to appease Bills. Goku, on the other hand, is eager to fight Beerus and can't help himself when it comes to challenging him, despite Kaio's orders not to. Even back in the Boo Saga, we see Goku making very poor decisions and placing the responsibility of saving the Earth on two 7-year old kids, while Vegeta realised that ''No, they're kids, they shouldn't have to.''
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TheGmGoken
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Nagito Komaeda
Jan 3 2015, 01:38 AM
Goku beat Boo. You can argue that it was the Genki Dama all you like, but Goku's the one who used the technique and he's the one who pushed it to overpower Boo.

Vegeta might've been a prick earlier on in the series, but he and Goku switched roles in Battle of Gods. Vegeta's there, completely throwing away his pride in order to appease Bills. Goku, on the other hand, is eager to fight Beerus and can't help himself when it comes to challenging him, despite Kaio's orders not to. Even back in the Boo Saga, we see Goku making very poor decisions and placing the responsibility of saving the Earth on two 7-year old kids, while Vegeta realised that ''No, they're kids, they shouldn't have to.''
Okay let me repharse it then. Freeza was the last Big Bad that Goku beat using his OWN energy. When the hell did Vegeta say "no they're kids. They should't have too". Vegeta was PISSED that GOku didn't bring Gohan and GOtenks. Vegeta clearly said "LET THE EARTH save the EARTH.". It had NOTHING to do with the kids.

Also who said I hate Vegeta?

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Edited by TheGmGoken, Jan 3 2015, 01:45 AM.
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TheGmGoken
Jan 3 2015, 01:42 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Jan 3 2015, 01:38 AM
Goku beat Boo. You can argue that it was the Genki Dama all you like, but Goku's the one who used the technique and he's the one who pushed it to overpower Boo.

Vegeta might've been a prick earlier on in the series, but he and Goku switched roles in Battle of Gods. Vegeta's there, completely throwing away his pride in order to appease Bills. Goku, on the other hand, is eager to fight Beerus and can't help himself when it comes to challenging him, despite Kaio's orders not to. Even back in the Boo Saga, we see Goku making very poor decisions and placing the responsibility of saving the Earth on two 7-year old kids, while Vegeta realised that ''No, they're kids, they shouldn't have to.''
Okay let me repharse it then. Freeza was the last Big Bad that Goku beat using his OWN energy. When the hell did Vegeta say "no they're kids. They should't have too". Vegeta was PISSED that GOku didn't bring Gohan and GOtenks. Vegeta clearly said "LET THE EARTH save the EARTH.". It had NOTHING to do with the kids.
Vegeta told Goten and Trunks to run away while he fought Boo.

Vegeta never wanted the kids to fight Kid Boo, that was Goku's idea. Vegeta was just mad he didn't save their life. I mean at that point I think having Gohan at least to fight Boo would have been a great idea coming from anyone, though.
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TheGmGoken
Jan 3 2015, 01:42 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Jan 3 2015, 01:38 AM
Goku beat Boo. You can argue that it was the Genki Dama all you like, but Goku's the one who used the technique and he's the one who pushed it to overpower Boo.

Vegeta might've been a prick earlier on in the series, but he and Goku switched roles in Battle of Gods. Vegeta's there, completely throwing away his pride in order to appease Bills. Goku, on the other hand, is eager to fight Beerus and can't help himself when it comes to challenging him, despite Kaio's orders not to. Even back in the Boo Saga, we see Goku making very poor decisions and placing the responsibility of saving the Earth on two 7-year old kids, while Vegeta realised that ''No, they're kids, they shouldn't have to.''
Okay let me repharse it then. Freeza was the last Big Bad that Goku beat using his OWN energy. When the hell did Vegeta say "no they're kids. They should't have too". Vegeta was PISSED that GOku didn't bring Gohan and GOtenks. Vegeta clearly said "LET THE EARTH save the EARTH.". It had NOTHING to do with the kids.

Also who said I hate Vegeta?
The whole 'his own energy' doesn't even matter. It doesn't have to be his energy; it's his attack and his energy pushing it towards his opponent.

He says that when he asks Piccolo to take Goten and Trunks away from Fat Boo, no?

He was pissed that Goku didn't bring the kids, yeah, but he doesn't want to bring them to the battle with one of the wishes. He wants the Earth to save itself (for some reason), but he also doesn't want Goten and Trunks to have to fight anymore.

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TheGmGoken
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Clearin
Jan 3 2015, 01:45 AM
TheGmGoken
Jan 3 2015, 01:42 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Jan 3 2015, 01:38 AM
Goku beat Boo. You can argue that it was the Genki Dama all you like, but Goku's the one who used the technique and he's the one who pushed it to overpower Boo.

Vegeta might've been a prick earlier on in the series, but he and Goku switched roles in Battle of Gods. Vegeta's there, completely throwing away his pride in order to appease Bills. Goku, on the other hand, is eager to fight Beerus and can't help himself when it comes to challenging him, despite Kaio's orders not to. Even back in the Boo Saga, we see Goku making very poor decisions and placing the responsibility of saving the Earth on two 7-year old kids, while Vegeta realised that ''No, they're kids, they shouldn't have to.''
Okay let me repharse it then. Freeza was the last Big Bad that Goku beat using his OWN energy. When the hell did Vegeta say "no they're kids. They should't have too". Vegeta was PISSED that GOku didn't bring Gohan and GOtenks. Vegeta clearly said "LET THE EARTH save the EARTH.". It had NOTHING to do with the kids.
Vegeta told Goten and Trunks to run away while he fought Boo.

Vegeta never wanted the kids to fight Kid Boo, that was Goku's idea. Vegeta was just mad he didn't save their life. I mean at that point I think having Gohan at least to fight Boo would have been a great idea coming from anyone, though.
That's not comparable at all. Vegeta told Goten and Trunks to get out of there because they were weak little kids who would only get in the way. Goku taught them FUSION. It's like Goku telling Gohan to run when Gohan was bout to fight Raditz but when Gohan gets strong enough. Goku let's him fight.

Goten and Trunks were not strong enough
Gotenks were.


Thanks for repeating what I said. Vegeta was pissed that Goku didn't save their life. There was NO mention of the kids fighting until Vegeta made the Genki Dama plan. In which Vegeta said "Let Earth save Earth".

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He says that when he asks Piccolo to take Goten and Trunks away from Fat Boo, no?

That's different as I said eariler. Gotenks is not the same as Goten+Trunks. So that's irrelevant.

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The whole 'his own energy' doesn't even matter. It doesn't have to be his energy; it's his attack and his energy pushing it towards his opponent.

Well with Vegeta saying "Let Earth save Earth", I think it does mattter that it wasn't his power.

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but he doesn't want to bring them to the battle with one of the wishes. He wants the Earth to save itself (for some reason), but he also doesn't want Goten and Trunks to have to fight anymore.

When was that stated. Give me a quote. Vegeta just mentioned Earth and to NOT bring the kids. He wants Earth to save Earth.
Edited by TheGmGoken, Jan 3 2015, 01:53 AM.
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Vegeta had just told Trunks to take care of his Mother and has his little emotional monologue straight after, so it's pretty fair to say that he knocked Goten and Trunks out so they wouldn't try and fight Boo; he was protecting them.

''You two...make your escape...I'll fight Boo...myself...''

He wasn't intending on having the kids fight Boo at all. He was planning to end Boo there by self-destructing. He wanted the kids out of danger while Goku wanted to throw them into danger, even admitting that the fusion technique was a 'nasty gambit'. He acted more like a father than Goku, who wanted to 'leave the fate of the world in their hands' instead of dealing with the threat himself.
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TheGmGoken
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Nagito Komaeda
Jan 3 2015, 02:00 AM
Vegeta had just told Trunks to take care of his Mother and has his little emotional monologue straight after, so it's pretty fair to say that he knocked Goten and Trunks out so they wouldn't try and fight Boo; he was protecting them.

''You two...make your escape...I'll fight Boo...myself...''

He wasn't intending on having the kids fight Boo at all. He was planning to end Boo there by self-destructing. He wanted the kids out of danger while Goku wanted to throw them into danger, even admitting that the fusion technique was a 'nasty gambit'. He acted more like a father than Goku, who wanted to 'leave the fate of the world in their hands' instead of dealing with the threat himself.
You're failing to see the point and by so proving my point. Vegeta didn't want the kids to fight. Which is true. He knocked them out. Which is true. HOWEVER they was also weak kids. Goku wanted them to fight when they're FUSED together. That's the difference. Goku didn't send Goten and Trunks out there without fusion to fight Boo. Goku gave them a huge power. Not to mention Gotenks even got SSJ and SSJ3 from it(Now Goku could't predict SSJ3). So no. As I said. What Vegeta said was irrelevant to what I'm talking about.

Now how are you proving my point? Goku can't do anything bad without getting s*** on. Vegeta does bad thing it's "Lol...he's a Saiyan. It's nature".

The original point is. Vegeta doesn't deserve Freeza. Vegeta before BoG is f***ing horrible. Vegeta BoG is decent but still don't deserve Freeza because it will have NO impact. It's quite simple. Vegeta is getting sloppy thirds and never deserved to beat Freeza in the first place. EVERY beatdown he had. Was his own damn fault and he deserved it. Goku haven't beaten anyone major since Freeza. Goku is more deserving than Vegeta. I expect both of them to beat Freeza, not just one. Vegeta is only good because the plot demands so.

*Vegeta gets brought back*

"Look at that Vegeta. I guess you aren't as evil as people think". - Goku.

Bulls***. Majin Vegeta kills 2 sections of viewers just to fight Goku. Now he's a good guy? f*** that s***. I don't buy it. Now he is surely a good guy in BoG. HOWEVER he still don't deserve to defeat Freeeza
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It's still a 'nasty gamble' that he's willing to take, despite the fact that he admits that he could've taken Boo out himself. Why leave that responsibility to the kids when he can take Boo out, teach them the fusion technique and then go? They don't need an enemy in order to learn fusion and train; that's just unnecessary pressure.

Vegeta's been a prick through a lot of the series, yeah, but he's gotten beatdowns as punishment for it. The fact of the matter is that he redeemed himself both in the Cell Saga and the Boo Saga. He went a few steps back with the whole Majin thing, but soon realised his mistake and literally risked his existence in order to save the Earth.

Goku doesn't constantly get **** on. Most people adore him and don't realise that, beneath all that naivety, he's not that great of a character. He doesn't really react to Boo's Kamehameha doing a ton of damage and undoubtedly killing a lot of people. He leaves the fate of the world in the hands of two kids with a technique that might not even work. He's not the best guy; the decisions he made in the Boo Saga were absolutely terrible.

Goku never had to redeem himself while Vegeta did. Vegeta's done enough to earn the spotlight for 2 hours. No doubt Goku'll be the hero again after this film, so what's the harm in letting Vegeta be the hero for once?
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Kblo247
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Goku by his own admission could have beat fat Buu ... This isn't cell where he couldn't win. He chose not to win all the time thinking Gohan and Vegeta were both dead and couldn't be wished back for 6 months or ever. He chose to make two kids fight for the world. His son he hadn't met before that day who was 6 and a child he saw a couple times as a baby, now all of 7 fight Buu for the fate of the world. And he admitted more than once he could have beat Buu and protected them but didn't. He didn't get that they were kids, no matter how you slice it.

Goku never once registered the fact about Gohan or the other boys they were kids. Goku himself didn't leave home till he was 12, he expected a 6 and 7 year old who've never fought outside a jr tourney to his knowledge to fight for the fate of earth and the universe after spending a couple hours with them! He's a douche for that, an even bigger douche than when he brings Gohan to the games with him not expecting to fight, and throws cell a senzu bean and is smiling while his son is being crushed because he doesn't see past his own cheap thrill.

At Vegetas worst with the M stamped on his head he expresses he's sorry to Gohan (Goku doesn't) for his perceived death and then makes sure both boys are taken away from the battle field.

Flash forward a while later and Goku is still willing to send his boys into battle against the most dangerous Buu there was without even so much as a second thought

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Nagito Komaeda
Jan 2 2015, 11:06 PM
It would be preferable to Goku beating the big bad again. Vegeta's power is always tauted as 'great' or 'amazing', yet Vegeta always takes a back-seat to Goku. It's time that Vegeta actually got his time in the spotlight. The fact that he actually has a long history with Freeza helps too, as opposed to Goku, who only found out who he was on the way to Namek. Though Vegeta didn't seem to care, he actually experienced what it was like to lose his entire race and be one of the last Saiyans in the Universe; Goku didn't suffer that and, as such, it didn't really have much of an impact on his character.

Why Vegeta?

He has a history with Freeza
He deserves to be the hero for once
Goku beating Freeza again would just be boring
I couldn't agree more with this.

Having just read the real translation of the Boo arc, it's crazy how the manga set him up to be such a nice guy. As soon as Goku starts fighting Pure Boo, his attitude takes a dramatic 180. Then by the end of Z, it's clear that he's essentially an earthling again, not some bloodlusted saiyan.

I think it's time for him to shine.
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Nagito Komaeda
Jan 3 2015, 01:38 AM
Goku beat Boo. You can argue that it was the Genki Dama all you like, but Goku's the one who used the technique and he's the one who pushed it to overpower Boo.

Vegeta might've been a prick earlier on in the series, but he and Goku switched roles in Battle of Gods. Vegeta's there, completely throwing away his pride in order to appease Bills. Goku, on the other hand, is eager to fight Beerus and can't help himself when it comes to challenging him, despite Kaio's orders not to. Even back in the Boo Saga, we see Goku making very poor decisions and placing the responsibility of saving the Earth on two 7-year old kids, while Vegeta realised that ''No, they're kids, they shouldn't have to.''
Man... I never considered how much better suited Vegeta is to be Earth's protector at this point... Goku is beyond irresponsible :lol: .
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It's a bit interesting to see how much better Vegeta is as the protector of Earth than Goku by the time the Boo arc ends, when he started out wanting to destroy the planet and not giving a s*** about anyone except himself, while Goku was its guardian and would give his life to protect it.
Edited by Pyrus, Jan 3 2015, 08:01 PM.
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I just want Vegeta to become the hero this time. I know Goku's more suited as a hero and all, but I want something different.
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Don Alex
Jan 3 2015, 08:02 PM
I just want Vegeta to become the hero this time. I know Goku's more suited as a hero and all, but I want something different.
Goku's more suited as the hero? I disagree to an extent. Sure, he started out as one, and definitely showed his stripes when he sacrificed himself to rescue Gohan from Raditz, but that's where it started to go awry. After he learned of his Saiyan history, he began to go after stronger and stronger opponents, to the point where he made foolish and selfish decisions to accomplish this. One example would be allowing Gero to create the artificial humans that were said by someone from the future—someone who had lived through the terror—to wipe them all out. Hell, even before that, he let Freeza reach his full power when he was in a position to destroy him with ease, just because he wanted to fight Freeza at his strongest. A completely selfish decision was fighting Majin Vegeta instead of ending him right away with Super Saiyan 3 and preventing Majin Boo's entire birth. He let the boys go against Boo because he didn't want to do and wanted to see if they could, without giving a good explanation.

On the other hand, Vegeta attempted to rectify his mistake of lending energy to Boo by facing Boo alone and sacrificing his life. Then he came back to help in the fight despite knowing, and stating, that he stood absolutely no chance. He willingly put himself out there in the fight with Pure Boo to give Goku time to gather power, even knowing he didn't stand a chance and would cease existing if he was killed whilst dead. In Battle of Gods, while Goku only wanted to fight Beerus because he was uber strong, Vegeta made a fool of himself to keep Beerus from hurting anyone, and attacked Beerus even after Gohan and Gotenks had been demolished. Vegeta was never going after Beerus because he wanted a fight; it was always to protect the planet and his loved ones, unlike Goku.
Edited by Pyrus, Jan 3 2015, 08:10 PM.
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