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NEW DBZ MOVIE 2015: Fukkatsu no F (Warning: Spoilers in Topic)
Topic Started: Jul 15 2014, 04:56 AM (364,099 Views)
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lazerbem
May 24 2015, 07:48 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
May 24 2015, 07:04 PM
How about some constructive criticism, please? Claiming Beerus and Whis have an IQ of 50 is essentially spam. Also, I'd recommend not basing your opinions off the hype.
Is it wrong to expect Golden Freeza to actually be a threat? Him losing was inevitable, him being incapable of winning was not.
But he did win, he was just screwed by Whis. That's besides the point though. You can criticize the film, but I'd simply prefer you be constructive.
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I don't see why it has to be constructive, it's not as if the writers are hearing any of this.

And you know full well that that's not what I meant. With Whis, the Dragonballs, and the Saiyans being better fighters, Freeza was never a threat to begin with because even if he won, it would just be undone by the Dragonballs or Whis. There is no tension in the plot because of this
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lazerbem
May 24 2015, 08:16 PM
I don't see why it has to be constructive, it's not as if the writers are hearing any of this.

And you know full well that that's not what I meant. With Whis, the Dragonballs, and the Saiyans being better fighters, Freeza was never a threat to begin with because even if he won, it would just be undone by the Dragonballs or Whis. There is no tension in the plot because of this
You should be constructive because the contrary is simply annoying and it lacks substance. The Dragon Balls are useless if everyon is dead, which they would have been if Whis didn't interfere, which was a possibility given the fact he's neutral. Goku and Vegeta aren't implied to be superior fighters. Freeza was kicking Goku's a** the majority of the fight. Honestly no matter what they did, the movie would have lacked tension because as you said, Freeza had to lose. What's more, this takes place pre 28th Budokai, so we know everyone's ok, even if this had a cliffhanger ending. Dragon Ball as a whole lacks tension because we know the Z-fighters are going to win. Tension shouldn't be the driving force for your enjoyment of the film. The fact of the matter is Freeza thought his revenge through, and would have won had Whis not been there. It's a testament to his character.
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Goku and Vegeta vs Whis

From what I've seen (and really I think the only fight I haven't seen is the Fighters vs Freeza's men) This relatively short fight has been the best one I've seen. No unncessary CGI, great animation and choreography. It was a nice fight with good fluidity and good visuals. It wasn't on the same level as the fights I saw in BOG but honestly it was a pleasant enough to watch. Which is a shame when this, the first fight...is the best.

Base Goku vs Base Freeza

I never got to see much of the fight here so it may be a bit better than I'm giving credit for. I thought it was, I thought it was slow to be honest. Do you all remember the anime episode of the Cell Games when Goku and Cell are having their warm up and the fight really seems slow . That's what it felt like here, it felt really slow and I'm not sure if they were doing this to build up on the later fights or something but it was awkward.

Other than that, I suppose it was decent enough.

Bluper Goku vs Golden Freeza

The blatant amount of CGI in the Goku vs Freeza fight is just horrible. It's like I'm watching video game clips. I mean it really hurt the fight which while nothing special, was decent enough in animation. It just flashes back and forth its so glaring. I mean if the entire thing was CGI I could be more forgiving because its not like its bad or anything. But the contrast is just so notable between the animation and the CGI.

And yes, there is nothing special about this fight. It's not a bad fight per say I mean, I suppose there are worst, but for something that is the main fight of the series, it doesn't deliver. This is the big fight of the movie, this is Golden Freeza vs Bluper Saiyan Goku, this is what we've been building up to and its just...lackluster. For a moment near the end when Freeza was firing off those red blasts, I assumed at first they were the disks he uses. I thought we were going to get a quick throw back to the Namek fight especially when he started blasting off several of them. But no, they're just...blasts.

In the end, the fight which should've been epic with great animation, great choreography, great music, great everything...ended up at best, average.

Vegeta vs Freeza

Beyond anything else, let's just talk about the fight. It's short, which I suppose is a good thing at this point, some good animation to say the least and as far as I could see, none of that idiotic CGI I being used. In fact, as far as the animation and stuff goes, it was honestly really nice. Maybe nicer than the Whis fight. This is what the Goku vs Freeza fight should've been like (but longer obviously)

Unfortunately the problem here lies in the simple fact that, Vegeta didn't deserve it. Vegeta from what I can tell spent this entire movie moaning about how he wanted to fight Freeza, even getting in Goku's way at one point. Yet the moment Freeza shows his Golden Form, Vegeta freaks out and refuses to fight telling Goku its his fight now. Only after finding out about Freeza's weakness does he even attempt to try to join the fight again.

There's pragmatism and then there's being a coward and wow, I honestly did not think I could hate someone more than Boo Arc Vegeta but you know what, I think I found it. I think I found the worst Vegeta of the series now. It's RoF Vegeta and what a joke he is. I can't believe they took the Princes of Saiyans and turned him into this.

And of course he and Goku don't learn anything so they're back at square one. But this, my goodness what they did to Vegeta here was absolutely awful. Vegeta was a character who valued pride and stregnth, it got annoying a lot of times but it was his character quirk. He wasn't a coward who talked s*** and then backed down when things got rough. If he had to he could be pragmatic and he knew sometimes he couldn't win fights (so much like on Namek he improvised) but even if he gets put in his place, he never acted in a way that was cowardly.

This was so cowardly of Vegeta and while I wasn't sure about that at first, I'm very certain about it now. This was not a good version of Vegeta that I've known throughout the series. This was nothing like the Vegeta I knew who'd continue on despite any disatvantage and not back down from any fight given to him.

Vegeta vs Zarbon. When Zarbon first transforms does Vegeta try to quit? No, he fights, he gets whooped but he fights.

Vegeta vs Recoome? Does Vegeta tell Gohan and the others to fight instead? No, he keeps on fighting as long as he can.

Vegeta vs Freeza on Namke? Does Vegeta cry and give up and...ok bad example.

Vegeta vs No. 18? It takes getting both of his arms broken before he even decides to quit.

Vegeta vs Perfect Cell? Strongest kick just tanked, Final Flash.

Vegeta vs Boo? Overpowered opponent Vegeta can never hope to handle, still kept going.

You name it, Vegeta's an egotistical bastard who has many problem. But there was one thing he never was and that was a coward. This is easily the most cowardly Vegeta I've seen ever. This is the Vegeta who tries to talk a big game but instantly backs down when things don't go his way and then blames Goku when he "steals" the kill from him despite the fact that he never earned it before.
Edited by EMIYA, May 24 2015, 08:57 PM.
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lazerbem
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No, the Namekian balls would not have been destroyed and it would be a simple matter for King Kai or Kibitoshin to just call them up and have them restore Earth and everyone on it. Freeza being superior to Goku only means something because Vegeta and Goku are too busy kissing their egos to work together. Even with the both of them acting arrogant, Freeza slapping Goku around doesn't mean much because in the end, Goku took about as much damage from that as Cell did from Goku. I'm also not sure if using the EOZ is justifiable at this point, given the amount of retcons going on.

Freeza is only a threat to begin with because of Goku and Vegeta being unable to swallow their pride(losing tons of character development in the process too) and even then, Whis and the Namekian balls provide a safety net. Freeza jobbed harder than Killer Croc did
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lazerbem
May 24 2015, 08:59 PM
No, the Namekian balls would not have been destroyed and it would be a simple matter for King Kai or Kibitoshin to just call them up and have them restore Earth and everyone on it. Freeza being superior to Goku only means something because Vegeta and Goku are too busy kissing their egos to work together. Even with the both of them acting arrogant, Freeza slapping Goku around doesn't mean much because in the end, Goku took about as much damage from that as Cell did from Goku. I'm also not sure if using the EOZ is justifiable at this point, given the amount of retcons going on.

Freeza is only a threat to begin with because of Goku and Vegeta being unable to swallow their pride(losing tons of character development in the process too) and even then, Whis and the Namekian balls provide a safety net. Freeza jobbed harder than Killer Croc did
Kaio doesn't have the jurisdiction to do that, otherwise he would have helped Trunks out in his future. Rou Kaioshin would also object to their use, so no, you're wrong. As for Goku and Vegeta teaming up, what's preventing Freeza from blowing up Earth in that case? All he needs to do is push on the ground at this point. Again though, basing a villains worth on their "ability to win", how are any of the villains a threat? You're holding Freeza to a different standard.
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I change my mind.

Vegeta vs Golden Freeza is by far the most boring and one of the worse funniest fights in the damn franchise. There was no fear of losing because Whis had Time travel and the beat down was lackluster. Everything from the trailers made Vegeta look like he'll finally get a good movie moment. Nope he just a lucky b*tch. Scared to fight someone at 100% and failed to win. In fact he died. ROFLMAO.

Vegeta a straight pussy. He got Yamcha. This movie funny.


Also why is a training session a more exciting fight than the main fight of the movie? This movie is a**backwards
Edited by TheGmGoken, May 25 2015, 12:02 AM.
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I can't fault Vegeta for his actions too much, it was clever to wait for Freeza to get tired then swoop in and take all the credit. What he didn't count on was Freeza ragequitting. Regardless, he wouldn't have been in that mess if he had just given Goku a hand.

Vegeta pulling a Starscream was really weird for his character though. Seriously, replace Vegeta with Starscream and this would still fit. And that's just wrong
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Seeing all this for the first time. Is this movie longer and more action, well more serious action than BoG?

Edit: I just saw a trailer for it and it looked good. Vegeta had blue hair (yay!) And was fighting a gold frieza and was winning. Haha justice is finally being handed out to Vegeta.
Edited by Sasuke, May 25 2015, 11:55 AM.
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Vegeta didn't exactly wait for Freeza to tire. That weakness was not made known at that point, so one can assume Vegeta was looking for a weakness, as it was clear Freeza was stronger than both of them. I certainly wouldn't call that cowardly, it shows that Vegeta is learning not to rush into battle for the sake of a good fight. Frankly, it's a double standard to criticize Vegeta for letting Cell become complete and to criticize him for declining the offer to fight against an opponent he knows he wouldn't fare too well against, at face value anyway. Also, Vegeta most certainly didn't get Yamcha'd. The reason Yamcha's death is perceived as funny is that he was killed by such a weak opponent, in hindsight anyway.
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Vegeta was killed by Freeza 4th form. A weak guy. Vegeta not only a pussy he's a loser.
Also Vegeta NEVER rushed into battle during Namek Arc and even Boo arc. Vegeta didn't learn sh*t except maybe working together with Goku. And you're using spam and double standard wrong. Had Goku done the same but no one complainng that's a double standard.
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TheGmGoken
May 25 2015, 03:47 PM
Vegeta was killed by Freeza 4th form. A weak guy. Vegeta not only a pussy he's a loser.
Also Vegeta NEVER rushed into battle during Namek Arc and even Boo arc. Vegeta didn't learn sh*t except maybe working together with Goku. And you're using spam and double standard wrong. Had Goku done the same but no one complainng that's a double standard.
Uh, Freeza ain't weak, and technically the lack of air killed Vegeta. The Saibaiman actually killed Yamcha with his own energy. Vegeta became cocky after the Freeza arc, and he did charge into battle several times in the Boo arc. It is a double standard, you see. You're calling Vegeta a pussy for backing down from a challenge, and you're calling Vegeta an idiot for wanting a challenge in facing Cell's perfect form.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
May 25 2015, 04:15 PM
TheGmGoken
May 25 2015, 03:47 PM
Vegeta was killed by Freeza 4th form. A weak guy. Vegeta not only a pussy he's a loser.
Also Vegeta NEVER rushed into battle during Namek Arc and even Boo arc. Vegeta didn't learn sh*t except maybe working together with Goku. And you're using spam and double standard wrong. Had Goku done the same but no one complainng that's a double standard.
Uh, Freeza ain't weak, and technically the lack of air killed Vegeta. The Saibaiman actually killed Yamcha with his own energy. Vegeta became cocky after the Freeza arc, and he did charge into battle several times in the Boo arc. It is a double standard, you see. You're calling Vegeta a pussy for backing down from a challenge, and you're calling Vegeta an idiot for wanting a challenge in facing Cell's perfect form.
Who caused lack of air? Freeza. Freeza beat Vegeta. End of story. That's like saying the gun killed MLK not the shooter. Common sense. 4th Form Freeza is weak compared to BLUE SSJ VEGETA dude. Freeza killed Vegeta with his own energy as his caused planet to go BOOM. I've never called Vegeta an idiot. Please don't put sh*t in my mouth. I called him a pussy for being scared yes. Also called him a loser cause that's what he is. A f***ing loser. Just now he's a pussy.

1991 Vegeta was Freeza's b*tch
2015 Vegeta is still a b*tch.

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TheGmGoken
May 25 2015, 04:35 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
May 25 2015, 04:15 PM
TheGmGoken
May 25 2015, 03:47 PM
Vegeta was killed by Freeza 4th form. A weak guy. Vegeta not only a pussy he's a loser.
Also Vegeta NEVER rushed into battle during Namek Arc and even Boo arc. Vegeta didn't learn sh*t except maybe working together with Goku. And you're using spam and double standard wrong. Had Goku done the same but no one complainng that's a double standard.
Uh, Freeza ain't weak, and technically the lack of air killed Vegeta. The Saibaiman actually killed Yamcha with his own energy. Vegeta became cocky after the Freeza arc, and he did charge into battle several times in the Boo arc. It is a double standard, you see. You're calling Vegeta a pussy for backing down from a challenge, and you're calling Vegeta an idiot for wanting a challenge in facing Cell's perfect form.
Who caused lack of air? Freeza. Freeza beat Vegeta. End of story. That's like saying the gun killed MLK not the shooter. Common sense. 4th Form Freeza is weak compared to BLUE SSJ VEGETA dude. Freeza killed Vegeta with his own energy as his caused planet to go BOOM. I've never called Vegeta an idiot. Please don't put sh*t in my mouth. I called him a pussy for being scared yes. Also called him a loser cause that's what he is. A f***ing loser. Just now he's a pussy.

1991 Vegeta was Freeza's b*tch
2015 Vegeta is still a b*tch.

I'm not denying that Freeza beat him, but he didn't directly kill him, that's all I'm saying. I know he's weaker than SSJGSSJ Vegeta, but the Saibaimen are generally weak. They can be grown for crying out loud. Being beaten by Freeza, no matter how you slice it, is far more dignifying that being killed by a plant monster. So you don't believe Vegeta was an idiot for letting Cell become complete? I mean, that's sorta a general consensus... Anyway, I have no interest in continuing this discussion as you're obviously set in your ways.
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TheGmGoken
May 25 2015, 04:35 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
May 25 2015, 04:15 PM
TheGmGoken
May 25 2015, 03:47 PM
Vegeta was killed by Freeza 4th form. A weak guy. Vegeta not only a pussy he's a loser.
Also Vegeta NEVER rushed into battle during Namek Arc and even Boo arc. Vegeta didn't learn sh*t except maybe working together with Goku. And you're using spam and double standard wrong. Had Goku done the same but no one complainng that's a double standard.
Uh, Freeza ain't weak, and technically the lack of air killed Vegeta. The Saibaiman actually killed Yamcha with his own energy. Vegeta became cocky after the Freeza arc, and he did charge into battle several times in the Boo arc. It is a double standard, you see. You're calling Vegeta a pussy for backing down from a challenge, and you're calling Vegeta an idiot for wanting a challenge in facing Cell's perfect form.
Who caused lack of air? Freeza. Freeza beat Vegeta. End of story. That's like saying the gun killed MLK not the shooter. Common sense. 4th Form Freeza is weak compared to BLUE SSJ VEGETA dude. Freeza killed Vegeta with his own energy as his caused planet to go BOOM. I've never called Vegeta an idiot. Please don't put sh*t in my mouth. I called him a pussy for being scared yes. Also called him a loser cause that's what he is. A f***ing loser. Just now he's a pussy.

1991 Vegeta was Freeza's b*tch
2015 Vegeta is still a b*tch.

Dude, calm down
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